Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[eycatcher]

The measurements dont lie but Anthem could potentially score higher if they disabled all of their processing by default.

It's interesting to note that 3rd generation Anthem entry level MRX520 outperformed the AVM60 which is their top of their 3rd generation product, both have the same DAC and very similar preamp sections which is nice, I wish other manufactures did this. The AVM60 does have a different ADC.

Hopefully they will get it right with the 4th generation. I suspect more of the same for the AVR line up as they all use the same DAC still, but the processors AVM70 and AVM90 have more of a redesign away from a single chip DAC implementation which I'm bet will be a step up in performance.

 

[ex audiophile]

The measurements dont lie but Anthem could potentially score higher if they disabled all of their processing by default.

It's interesting to note that 3rd generation Anthem entry level MRX520 outperformed the AVM60 which is their top of their 3rd generation product, both have the same DAC and very similar preamp sections which is nice, I wish other manufactures did this. The AVM60 does have a different ADC.

Hopefully they will get it right with the 4th generation. I suspect more of the same for the AVR line up as they all use the same DAC still, but the processors AVM70 and AVM90 have more of a redesign away from a single chip DAC implementation which I'm bet will be a step up in performance.

What do you think about the fact that the digital inputs were not functional at all? Could that influence other measurements? Surely it raises question about the overall condition of the unit.

 

[eycatcher]

What do you think about the fact that the digital inputs were not functional at all? Could that influence other measurements? Surely it raises question about the overall condition of the unit.

I think that it could be a user error or the unit could be defective. If the latter in my opinion it should not have been published. I don't know the source and I'm not the engineer here. I know first hand this unit should potentially score higher and sounds much better than others that have scored however sound is subjective...

 

[Dj7675]

If the latter in my opinion it should not have been published.

While I understand your point, I don't agree. This site is different that other review sites that tend to cater to manufacturers. This site caters to consumers. The premise is simple. A member here wants to know how their gear measures, they arrange to send it in to Amir to measure and he bench tests it and post the review with his opinions etc. This does not preclude a manufacture from participating in the process, however. Many brands participate either with Amir directly, or even post in the review threads and their participation is greatly appreciated. If a manufacturer's piece of gear measures poorly that is sent in by a member, they are welcome to contact Amir to explore why, and/or send another sample. They can also choose not to for whatever reason they may have. Amir measures about 1 piece of gear per day and if he had to get the ok from every manufacturer that measured poorly, things would grind to a halt. Just my 2 cents FWIW.

 

[eycatcher]

While I understand your point, I don't agree. This site is different that other review sites that tend to cater to manufacturers. This site caters to consumers. The premise is simple. A member here wants to know how their gear measures, they arrange to send it in to Amir to measure and he bench tests it and post the review with his opinions etc. This does not preclude a manufacture from participating in the process, however. Many brands participate either with Amir directly, or even post in the review threads and their participation is greatly appreciated. If a manufacturer's piece of gear measures poorly that is sent in by a member, they are welcome to contact Amir to explore why, and/or send another sample. They can also choose not to for whatever reason they may have. Amir measures about 1 piece of gear per day and if he had to get the ok from every manufacturer that measured poorly, things would grind to a halt. Just my 2 cents FWIW.

Its okay we dont have to agree. I trust my ears more than these measurements. But there is much misinformation and many users trust this site and measurment method. You do get what you pay for when it comes to testing, and people should send Amir some more monies so he can spend more time, he is a valued asset to this industry

 

[ex audiophile]

While I understand your point, I don't agree. This site is different that other review sites that tend to cater to manufacturers. This site caters to consumers. The premise is simple. A member here wants to know how their gear measures, they arrange to send it in to Amir to measure and he bench tests it and post the review with his opinions etc. This does not preclude a manufacture from participating in the process, however. Many brands participate either with Amir directly, or even post in the review threads and their participation is greatly appreciated. If a manufacturer's piece of gear measures poorly that is sent in by a member, they are welcome to contact Amir to explore why, and/or send another sample. They can also choose not to for whatever reason they may have. Amir measures about 1 piece of gear per day and if he had to get the ok from every manufacturer that measured poorly, things would grind to a halt. Just my 2 cents FWIW.

All reasonable, but I think tests in which the unit may be defective should at least have an asterisk and be re tested whenever possible. It would also be appropriate to notify the manufacturer and if they do not respond then it's on them. Hopefully @cbrents73 is aware of this testing and will share his input.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Guys, i contacted Anthem after seeing this review. They responded me back and they said:

We have seen this AP report and comparing it to an AP test we did on a random unit in January, something is not right. The AVM60 measures better than the 1120.

They will be in contact with @amirm ! So before cursing this unit/brand to hell let´s see what follows up!

 

[Dj7675]

I hear you and I know what this site is about thanks, but to me what matters is the sound and you dont get that from this site. You do get what you pay for, and people should send Amir some more monies so he can spend more time, he is a valued asset to this industry

No worries, we each have our opinion on sound quality vs measurements. My experience has been that something that measures worse doesn't sound better. I do believe a better measuring device could certainly sound the same as at some point audibility comes into play. Even here, many members have differing opinions it seems. Being able to differenciate between a device measuring 85 vs 100 may be very difficult in many situations. And there are many other factors that go into making a purchase.. features, reliability, room correction etc of course. But this particular device didn't measure well relative to others. How much that matters is up to the particular consumer. Until I see the newer models tested, they woudln't be on my list if I were shopping.

 

[DuncanTodd]

Guys, i contacted Anthem after seeing this review. They responded me back and they said:

We have seen this AP report and comparing it to an AP test we did on a random unit in January, something is not right. The AVM60 measures better than the 1120.

They will be in contact with @amirm ! So before cursing this unit/brand to hell let´s see what follows up!

Stupid question: What does AP stand for?

 

[rccarguy]

Guys, i contacted Anthem after seeing this review. They responded me back and they said:

We have seen this AP report and comparing it to an AP test we did on a random unit in January, something is not right. The AVM60 measures better than the 1120.

They will be in contact with @amirm ! So before cursing this unit/brand to hell let´s see what follows up!

Yeah why isn't coaxial/optical working? Maybe something is faulty.

 

[ex audiophile]

No worries, we each have our opinion on sound quality vs measurements. My experience has been that something that measures worse doesn't sound better. I do believe a better measuring device could certainly sound the same as at some point audibility comes into play. Even here, many members have differing opinions it seems. Being able to differenciate between a device measuring 85 vs 100 may be very difficult in many situations. And there are many other factors that go into making a purchase.. features, reliability, room correction etc of course. But this particular device didn't measure well relative to others. How much that matters is up to the particular consumer. Until I see the newer models tested, they woudln't be on my list if I were shopping.

It appears based on the previous post by @JR449 that Anthem is aware and has stated the test results are not representative. I personally will be waiting for more conclusive testing before writing off Anthem products based on a single, possibly flawed unit.

 

[eycatcher]

No worries, we each have our opinion on sound quality vs measurements. My experience has been that something that measures worse doesn't sound better. I do believe a better measuring device could certainly sound the same as at some point audibility comes into play. Even here, many members have differing opinions it seems. Being able to differentiate between a device measuring 85 vs 100 may be very difficult in many situations. And there are many other factors that go into making a purchase.. features, reliability, room correction etc of course. But this particular device didn't measure well relative to others. How much that matters is up to the particular consumer. Until I see the newer models tested, they woudln't be on my list if I were shopping.

Your missing my point again, I'm glad JR449 flagged this review as I did. My flags went up, as you challenged my opinion. However, I was more in disagreement with the measurements. But if we didn't discuss and escalate the issue many other readers would look at the SINAD and think this is a sub par product which it is not, or think less of Anthem which they shouldnt. I do understand that that is not Amir's responsibility but this is very common that products could possibly get misrepresented here.

For example, I can certainly send in a used product in good faith which is not 100%. Would anyone know? Maybe it gets through the tests and receives a SINAD and a not recommended score is it its true score? Should faith be put into purchasing a product based on said measurement? How many others slip on this site and don't get challenged? No one knows… I'm happy to hear that Anthem is looking into it as they should.

 

[respice finem]

Another one bites the dust.

Vacuum cleaner deluxe

 

[Dj7675]

Your missing my point again, I'm glad JR449 flagged this review as I did. My flags went up, as you challenged my opinion. However, I was more in disagreement with the measurements. But if we didn't discuss and escalate the issue many other readers would look at the SINAD and think this is a sub par product which it is not, or think less of Anthem which they shouldn't. I do understand that that is not Amir's responsibility but this is very common that products could possibly get misrepresented here.

For example, I can certainly send in a used product in good faith which is not 100%. Would anyone know? Maybe it gets through the tests and receives a SINAD and a not recommended score is it its true score? Should faith be put into purchasing a product based on said measurement? How many others slip on this site and don't get challenged? No one knows… I'm happy to hear that Anthem is looking into it as they should.

Just a few comments:
-I didn't intend at all to challenge an opinion, just state that isn't how I see it (regarding sound not matching measurements. People are obviously free to use measurement of gear as they see fit (if at all).
-Earlier I stated attempted to be clear that we shouldn't jump to a conclusion on an entire brand based on this one test of the AVM60. This unit could have issues, or this model, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that the other or future models won't measure well. As it sounds like is the case here with Anthem (and many other manufacturers) they are reaching out to Amir because it doesn't match their measurements. This is great as it shows they measure in their design and testing and can provide these measurements and troubleshoot etc to get to the bottom of it.
-Sample variation is always an issue with testing, even with new products. It should always be a consideration their is possibility that a particular sample could have an issue. But that shouldn't mean we shouldn't measure and post results of members gear they send in.
I actually think the process works very well even though it is different that other sites. But you have to remember other sites often do a few bench tests per month and Amir is doing 30.

 

[Krobar]

Your missing my point again, I'm glad JR449 flagged this review as I did. My flags went up, as you challenged my opinion. However, I was more in disagreement with the measurements. But if we didn't discuss and escalate the issue many other readers would look at the SINAD and think this is a sub par product which it is not, or think less of Anthem which they shouldnt. I do understand that that is not Amir's responsibility but this is very common that products could possibly get misrepresented here.

For example, I can certainly send in a used product in good faith which is not 100%. Would anyone know? Maybe it gets through the tests and receives a SINAD and a not recommended score is it its true score? Should faith be put into purchasing a product based on said measurement? How many others slip on this site and don't get challenged? No one knows… I'm happy to hear that Anthem is looking into it as they should.

You need to be careful of hardware revisions too. In this regard Amir's sourcing method is somewhat fairer (This has already been shown up in the Denon X6700 review).

 

[respice finem]

A fully scientific test would involve a representative sample, maybe 100 pieces, and then calculating a median of each value. Good luck with that, any lottery winners around? And even then, the ominous small print applies "specifications are subject to change without notice".

 

[peng]

Stupid question: What does AP stand for?

I think they referred to Audio Precision, that's the brand of test instrument that several benches used, or used including A&V, HTHF (used to not now), Stereophile, AH and ASR.

 

[Mike-48]

I agree that as the site becomes more influential, it's important that a sample tested be representative. I'm not convinced that's always achieved by testing an owner's unit of unknown age with unknown history. When such a unit demonstrates clear defects, like broken inputs or outputs, I don't see the reason to continue testing.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's questionable to test a unit without first ensuring that current firmware is installed. Testing broken or non updated units might stir up some excitement, but I don't thank excitement is a good reason to measure.

Avoiding such pitfalls would raise confidence in both good and bad results.

Disclaimer #1: I have an Anthem STR Preamp that I like. I don't think it's perfect, and I don't think Anthem is perfect.
Disclaimer #2: I understand, it's Amir's site, and he can do what he chooses.

 

[Vasr]

-Sample variation is always an issue with testing, even with new products. It should always be a consideration their is possibility that a particular sample could have an issue. But that shouldn't mean we shouldn't measure and post results of members gear they send in.

The confusion came from you responding to a post that raised a question as to the working condition of this product based on some symptoms.

The limitations here is not a case of sample variation in a production line or even between different revisions of a product. It is sample variations from a used product with its age and history unknown. The fact that acquiring equipment this way is an inherent limitation of this site doesn't imply that you can ignore that "uncontrolled factor". So, if there is any hint that a particular unit may have some malfunction in any of its features, then it should be investigated for user error or flagged as not a perfect specimen. Otherwise, you have lost the plot of controlled experiments. One should always be open to the "sample bias" in such data collection (and of much more consequence than sample variations off a product line).

 

[eycatcher]

Cleary as I pointed out something is not right as the entry level MRX520 outperformed the flagship AVM60 per SINAD. I'm surprised it took so long and no one caught on, as the review mentioned the MRX1120 which is their top AVR scored higher.

Hopefully over time many vendors will publish their own detailed measurements and perhaps some standardization will come about that will continue to advance the technology. Even with this site and community there is still no holy grail for ratings and reviews. I'm certainly sad that the other platforms moved away from bench tests. It was always difficult to get a fair and unbiased review anyway. The only people you can really trust are the ones with the golden ears and analyzer's anyway. If I hit the lotto I'd certainly have one. I wanted to buy one about 20 years ago.

For sure Anthem owns an analyzer and their R&D, QC is involved in lifecycle of their products. Its just a shame as this unit got reviewed late in the game and we will wait to see what could be a hardware or software issue. Unfortunately, it is their previous generation product which is out of production and probably won't receive many if any future updates.