Another Opinion on Why Vinyl is Better.

[Thomas savage]

He may be a bit brash but I like his approach, it is direct and honest. He doesn't try to blow a huge smoke screen to cover mal-intent or mis-direct to avoid direct answers to questions.
The real world isn't always love and roses.

No he is wise to leave that to others better equipped...,

 

[Sal1950]

No he is wise to leave that to others better equipped...,
View attachment 2020

Pass that over will ya Thomas.

 

[krabapple]

How much hands on experience w/vinyl do you have?

Like, when is the last time I *touched* my turntable? Probably a few years now, since I last put it back on the shelf in the closet after doing my most recent needledrop. (Wouldn't you know it, the album came out on CD just a month later!)

It's a belt-driven Systemdek IIX purchased new circa ~1983, with (IIRC) a Shure v15 Type V cart. It was the last a series of turntables I owned between ~1975 and then.

Vinyl and TTs are cute retro technology but not what I want or need for my listening. I prefer other types of euphonic distortion these days.

 

[krabapple]

Now every indication is Gordon Hold would have a good discussion with me about why things sound one way and measure another. The founding principle of his magazine was about that. He wasn't really anti-measurement just noted that listening and measuring sometimes appear not to coincide and he would like to know why.

He also noted, at the end of his tenure, how regrettable it was that hi-end did not embrace blind testing. (which I see now that AJ has already quoted)

As for Art Dudley, he's a charter member of the audiophile buffoon squad.

 

[krabapple]

Unlike some EEs, I'm not into ritualistic behaviour, following the herd over the cliff - if I experience something that intrigues me I'll explore it, I'm not interested in kissing the feet of Authority Figures who Have All The Answers ...

Ah, the lone misunderstood genius/rebel.

Let me guess, you submitted your findings to a peer reviewed journal and those hidebound nitpicking sheep refused to recognize its paradigm-shattering brilliance?

Or is that the next episode in your saga?

 

[fas42]

Ah, the lone misunderstood genius/rebel.

Let me guess, you submitted your findings to a peer reviewed journal and those hidebound nitpicking sheep refused to recognize its paradigm-shattering brilliance?

Or is that the next episode in your saga?

Tsk ... run out of the chill pills, yet again?

Never went into the engineering game proper, got sidetracked into computing right at the start and stayed there ever since, is the next epsiode ...

But, have always taken an interest in audio, and on and off have got a buzz out of chasing good sound - what I find really bizarre is that so few people manage to get, or are interested in higher levels of quality. This is probably because the mob running the show, the AES, missed a turn way back when, and have never recovered ...

 

[Sal1950]

what I find really bizarre is that so few people manage to get, or are interested in higher levels of quality.

Everyone here is interested in quality, thats how we all got here, but we have different approaches.
Let's not run page after page of batter just for BS sake. If anyone has hard evidence to provide we'd all be glad to indulge.

 

[fas42]

Since the hard evidence occurs within the skull it's somewhat hard to "prove" - testing of a system, and the way individual people's brain react, could be easily done by effectively blindfolding the listeners to the location of the speaker, no visual clues at all, and asking them to locate the drivers purely from the auditory information - a competent setup, for people for whom the illusion occurs, will only be able to make random guesses.

 

[NorthSky]

We all know frank and northsky Posts have little or no scientific value, no real repeatable or indeed useful information in terms of understanding how things work or how to try and make anything better.

That is not entirely true.

 

[Thomas savage]

That is not entirely true.

Nice one Bob, the arguments and justifications based on pure fantasy nicely lampooned by yourself by using a fantasy film...

Lampooning yourself in this way shows great humour Bob, first rate!

You do know 'independent day' was not a documentary though don't you?...

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Since the hard evidence occurs within the skull it's somewhat hard to "prove" - testing of a system, and the way individual people's brain react, could be easily done by effectively blindfolding the listeners to the location of the speaker, no visual clues at all, and asking them to locate the drivers purely from the auditory information - a competent setup, for people for whom the illusion occurs, will only be able to make random guesses.

Yes. A recent line of reasoning taken up by you and John. Back in your time at WBF, many of us held the position that it was all inside your head and you insisted that it was in your ears. But that was before you discovered audio scene analysis and that explained everything -- all along you have been triggering perceptions that we really don't understand with your soldering iron, glue and bricks.

Of course what we talk about here is audio reproduction, and simple logic tells us that the more accurately we can reproduce what reaches the ear, the better our brains will be able to process it as they would process the real music being reproduced. That is so obvious it's hardly worth arguing. But it puts you back in a world where any real improvements would be verifiable, a world where your "findings" don't hold up and your arguments do not belong.

Tim

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Since the hard evidence occurs within the skull it's somewhat hard to "prove" - testing of a system

Wrong. The processing takes place inside the skull, the evidence/results are all external. Blinding simply removes the biases and mega self delusions occurring "within the numbskull" from affecting the external results.
Your magic HTIB is testable, as are your crazed beliefs involving glue and bricks etc. Unfortunately, no peeking is allowed for valid results.

 

[Purité Audio]

Nigaud is 'someone stupid' , this is from an excellent and trustwory source!
Keith.

 

[tomelex]

Since the hard evidence occurs within the skull it's somewhat hard to "prove" - testing of a system, and the way individual people's brain react, could be easily done by effectively blindfolding the listeners to the location of the speaker, no visual clues at all, and asking them to locate the drivers purely from the auditory information - a competent setup, for people for whom the illusion occurs, will only be able to make random guesses.

While pure mono to two speakers in a stereo pair would be a bit harder to localize, stereo would be a walk in the park, the very basis of stereo is difference in intensity and phase, and just turning your head one way or the other will allow you to point to each speaker. This of course assumes the room is somewhat normal as in most folks homes and the speakers are set up for normal stereo operation. If you cant do this, then your hearing apparatus is not in the normal range Frank, and that may explain things, so you might realize that your brain processes differently than what I would consider the norm. If you actually can not point to stereo speakers given the ability to move your head side to side as you suggest, then I suggest you hear differently than most of us and so your inputs are kind of irrelevant so keep that in mind when folks answer your posts in the way they do.

 

[welsh]

Bob, I Have a nice TT and prefer digital. I do not find it fatiguing in the least. In fact, the most fatiguing stuff I have heard in the last several months has been from vinyl.

I have a Rega 3 turntable, with Rega Exact cartridge. String quartets are OK, jazz is OK, but symphonic music is badly suited to vinyl. I only bought a turntable because I inherited a lot of vinyl from my father.

 

[welsh]

Prior to ripping to CD, I ripped to cassettes using the top of the line Akai's ...

Back in the 80s, I would buy an LP and record it to cassette tape. Usually, I had a warmer and more ‘dynamic’ sound. I had a Nakamichi deck. Also, if one had a new girlfriend, one would provide her with a mixtape designed to prove just how cool you were…

 

[David Harper]

Bought a new Project TT a few years ago and listened to vinyl with it for maybe a couple weeks. It was nostalgic and seemed cool at first and the sq was quite good but I quickly became tired of all the screwing around (cleaning the record, fiddling with the arm/cartridge, etc) and my new TT got retired to an upstairs closet where it remains to this day. I probably spent a total of $800 or so including the new vinyl I bought. In retrospect the whole thing was a waste of time and money. Oh well. For me vinyl was an exercise in silliness. But that's just me. And it turned out all of my new vinyl was sourced and mastered digitally so it wasn't really analog sound at all. Not really sure what it was that I thought I was after with the whole thing. It seems to have been that I had some money that required disposing of.

 

[welsh]

We're all different.

I try to take it in stride.

And ended up signing blank canvasses so fraudsters could flourish…

 

[Kegemusha]

Here is something I recently posted at Computer Audiophile. Read it and weep:

The real reason for vinyl is contained in Art Dudley's response to a letter in the current Stereophile:

"To my ears and to my thinking....

I stop reading already there. I had LPs many years ago, I just listen to FLACs and CDs now.

 

[welsh]

Now there's a Freudian slip...

There was as episode of an American situation comedy where the protagonist (a psychologist) relates a meeting with another such. His friend details a marvellous example of the Freudian Slip: “My patient was having dinner with his wife, and meant to ask her to pass the salt. Instead, he blurted out ‘You ruined my life, you bloodsucking bitch!’”