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Another Opinion on Why Vinyl is Better.

Blumlein 88

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A very great deal can be learned by knowing how loud people's playback is usually set; and what recordings they own that they consider 'duds', and the reasons that they dislike these ones ...

I agree. I noticed some people are very subtly clipping now and again often from using an amp a bit small they like for other reasons. Only a couple people have I met who seemed to avoid clipping at times in their high end system. I knew one fellow who somehow liked clipping. Nothing subtle about it. It was odd, give him a pocket radio and he turned it up to a certain amount of raw clipping. Listen to his rig at home same thing just way louder. When he got a bigger amp up it went until it clipped the same too. I always wondered what would happen if he got a horn system with a big amp to boot. Would he go deaf before it sounded right to him? Somehow that sound of raw edge was what made music life-like to him.
 

krabapple

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" powers supplies in components are often a major factor in poorer subjective performance, "...
"What I like best about vinyl, is the timing. "
" "Timing" is so much of what gives music that specialness, that draws you in. However, that's nothing to do with vinyl per se; if you don't hear that quality in the sound then it's faulty - and this can especially happen with digital, that flat-footedness one often hears from CD,"


Bollocks like this indicates to me that the 'science' part of 'audiosciencereview' is more aspirational than foundational.
 

Thomas savage

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" powers supplies in components are often a major factor in poorer subjective performance, "...
"What I like best about vinyl, is the timing. "
" "Timing" is so much of what gives music that specialness, that draws you in. However, that's nothing to do with vinyl per se; if you don't hear that quality in the sound then it's faulty - and this can especially happen with digital, that flat-footedness one often hears from CD,"


Bollocks like this indicates to me that the 'science' part of 'audiosciencereview' is more aspirational than foundational.
Yes you have a point mr krab, those two guys are on our ' outer limits ' . Please feel free to post more constructive content yourself. That would be infinitely more ... Productive than this some what confrontational message.
 

Thomas savage

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Whatever strains of cannabis they have in Bobs area in Canada and Franks area down under, it's obviously quite potent.
Yes and the delivery method don't help matters...,

image.jpeg
 

NorthSky

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" powers supplies in components are often a major factor in poorer subjective performance, "...
"What I like best about vinyl, is the timing. "
" "Timing" is so much of what gives music that specialness, that draws you in. However, that's nothing to do with vinyl per se; if you don't hear that quality in the sound then it's faulty - and this can especially happen with digital, that flat-footedness one often hears from CD,"

Bollocks like this indicates to me that the 'science' part of 'audiosciencereview' is more aspirational than foundational.

Whatever strains of cannabis they have in Bobs area in Canada and Franks area down under, it's obviously quite potent.

There are two type of posters in audio forums; the ones who have an opinion, and the ones who criticize other's opinion.
_________
 
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Thomas savage

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There are two type of posters in audio forums; the ones who have an opinion, and the ones who criticize other's opinion.
It's the way this world works so it's all very fine...the doers and the un-doers. Lol, what do you really know that we don't?
You two guys come up as two audio gurus above the world; as you can solve all audio matters and only you.
It makes me laugh because your expertise is mainly criticize others.
You give more importance in criticizing others than exploring your own belly button. Lol, your timing is totally off; you sound like a broken record with the needle stuck in the worst album's groove with that annoying repetitive and boring sameness.
_________

Ok, back to the topic, after giving back your fair dues. Respectfully. :D

* Early this morning I was reading somewhere that vinyl's main superior advantage is "Warmth".
I agree with that. Analog signal transmission is smoother, more time relaxing, easier on the human nervous system.
Digital can be nice too, but most digital music recordings are crap. When compressed and digitally manipulated the music loses its main essence; its natural timing curve. The digital data is restricted, discarded, full of sharp edges, unnatural, incoherent, and out of touch with natural timing.
With vinyl spinning on a well speed adjusted TT, the music is in sync (good timing) with the master LP as recorded by the recording music engineer.

I give you an example: Do you like the music band Yes? Play any album of their repertoire from the LPs and the CDs and you'll notice the better impact and timing from the analog vinyls. I only give you one example, but there are many more; Cat Stevens, Shawn Phillips, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Pink Floyd, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, John Mayall, Eric Clapton, John Lee Hooker, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, etc. ...The music simply flows warmer because the timing is right with all the pieces together for a smoother and deeper music listening experience.

Don't get me wrong, I love digital for the convenience of DSP room manipulation, and bass management, and multichannel exaltation, and fast classical movements, and cellos and pianos and acoustic bass. It's perfect for digital high resolution loudspeakers and headphones.

On a CD you have pits/craters and spaces between. In the spaces between you have emptiness, a time correction zone, like a buffer zone so that the digital reader can interpret the missing spaces and fill them with virtual note's pieces. That virtual timing extrapolation is quasi immeasurable (our measuring tools are simply not up to it, they were designed with the knowledge of the time, not our times anymore).
We talk about the advantages on analog vinyl, and we don't even have the proper measuring tools to correlate what's there and what's missing in digital recordings in direct relation with the human brain. We are still uncertain of this audio world we like as a hobby and our passion for music to the extent of thinking that we know it all.

It is funny, because we are so convinced that we are right and others are wrong that science itself is losing its true role and its identity's definition.
I said it before, and I repeat it now: We have measured less than 1% of all there is to be measured in analog and digital music reproduction.
The audio scientists have not yet explore all the variables and permutations between music recordings, analog and digital, audio gear and the human hearing.

Krab and AJ you seem to know more than anyone else, but what you hear and read is not registering the same in all human's brain equally.
So if you think that you are so smart, why not share positively your intelligence by advancement instead of criticizing freely without any support but your own personal critic towards your peers as to satisfy your egos. Lol, you guys need to step into the real meaning of audio science before criticizing others and your comments about drugs and bollocks. That's the easy route of the un-doers; switch positions...explore the higher avenues of our world. :)

It doesn't diminish your other qualities, but it does affect your narrower vision from your overly superiority complex.
Take the time...to be in sync. Lol, you both are just too funny; we need people like you too to see how some visions are affected.
C'mon, I think you can do it if you put some positive effort into it, or can't you. :)

Bob you have done nothing to dispel the op's notion that arguments for the superiority of analog are based on a disturbing lack of reason :D

I still can't workout what you prefer :confused:

You want more warmth when listening to a digital source?

Put thicker socks on! :D

AJ is ultra reasoned but ironically not that reasonable :D

This thread started out as a lampooning of audiophile nonsense but looks like those same lampooned sentiments have taken over the thread :eek::eek:

Help!, Where is lance corporal sal when you need him.
 

TBone

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I give you an example: Do you like the music band Yes? Play any album of their repertoire from the LPs and the CDs and you'll notice the better impact and timing from the analog vinyls.

Certainly not "any" album, YES mastering/compression qualities are all over the place ... some very good, some totally brutal, examples exist on both sides, from LP, CD (and hi-rez) within their entire library.

Simple generalizations, like the above, stating one format benefits an Artist entire library as "better", simply ignores reality.
 
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RayDunzl

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There are two type of posters in audio forums; the ones who have an opinion, and the ones who criticize other's opinion.

I'm sure there is at least a third type. I'll list one:

The Paranoiac-Critical poster.

paranoiac-critical method: spontaneous method of irrational knowledge based on the critical and systematic objectivity of the associations and interpretations of delirious phenomena.
 

amirm

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There are two type of posters in audio forums; the ones who have an opinion, and the ones who criticize other's opinion.
Now that is a good comeback line. :) Well done Bob.
 

Sal1950

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Now that is a good comeback line. :) Well done Bob.
You do know what they say about Opinions Amir, Every ----- got one. :p
 

Sal1950

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Blumlein 88

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NorthSky, here is the kicker to me on analog vs digital, is anything missing that analog gets while digital misses.

The first time I copied a friends out of print LP with an ADC, what we heard was everything wonderful about the LP. On another day at a later time I tricked him by switching to a digital recording of one of his LPs when he went out for a few minutes. When he returned he was happy with the LP we were listening to. After about 10 minutes I walked over and lifted his tonearm, and the music kept playing.

If digital done at home can capture the LP, then it is missing nothing. Some people complain of something lacking when they know it is digital playing. Anyone of them when they don't know think it is the LP.

Game, set, match. Over and done with which is the superior medium. Digital at a bare minimum fully equals and encompasses the LP.

So when CDs or digital recordings don't sound up to snuff, why is the medium blamed? It shouldn't be. It is not the problem. Not to mention I think people forget awful LPs which were the norm back when. I still remember some horribly mastered and super multi-miked DG LPs, and let me tell you, hardness, stridency and anything other than relaxing sound is what those were. There is no decent gear that can tame them. Fingernails on a chalkboard bad.

So let us stop blaming the medium and move on. It is usually mastering, or recording or compression that ruins modern music. Or listen to things the like the 2L recordings. Nothing harsh or 'digital' sounding about them. It is so frustrating that a medium that is an order of magnitude better with a far larger performance envelope is slandered as a problem in preference to a medium that is so constrained the most amazing thing is it works as much as it does. We are past that now. Enjoy what LP sources you have.
 

TBone

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geez, i'm probably the most "pro" vinyl member on this board, and yet, I'm even tired of seeing these silly justifications, link after silly link. So. North, since you repeatedly ignore all our above reasoning, you win ... the testimony of those w/wayyyyyyyyyyyy more hands-on experience doesn't apply.

(starting to believe the above bong theory.)
 

fas42

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It seems that krabapple is highly accomplished in electrical matters - obviously has complete command in using something like LTspice for examining the behaviour of power supply circuitry in real world use - perhaps he could advise me on where my efforts in this area were not up to scratch ...

Bob, fascinating that you mention the band Yes ... the audio friend up the road is a very keen fan of their music - I never got into them myself - and we have spent many sessions discussing, listening, analysing and tweaking his system using that music. Yes, :p the quality of their music via CD can be problematic, which makes it an excellent "measuring" tool - the same track, depending on what we've tried, and the tweaking that he had carried out prior, could be a disaster - or quite magical, a marvellous soundscape to meander through.
 

NorthSky

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Hey, I'm feeling so inspired that I'm listening to this right now.


Click on ↑ for free ♫ samples.

@Frank, I mentioned Yes first not only because I love the band but also because I am familiar with their LPs and CDs and more, very.
But on CDs the ECM music record label is one of my very favorites; Jazz, Avant-Garde, Fusion, World, Classical New Age, Chamber...
 
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fas42

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Bob, I've been hearing Yes for years via the friend's system, on LP and digital - lately it has been 100% digital, music player derived. Generally the reproduction of their work has been mediocre to passable, fairly typical of music of that era when replayed on systems not in good enough shape - from many years experience I know that this type of material can completely lift out the low quality muckiness it seems to be trapped in, but it requires a pristine rig to do it.

Audiophile labels have always been a big fat zero for me - the music itself seems to have been assembled in a hospital ward, it nearly always has a certain antiseptic smell about it that leaves me cold ...
 
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