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Another Opinion on Why Vinyl is Better.

TBone

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prefer not to generalize ... turntables and digital are both slaved to the quality of its given software ... that alone determines any such "fatigue" factor within my system.
 

NorthSky

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Frank & North, do either of you own a turntable currently; if not, what's your history w/turntables?

I own three but they aren't set up @ this moment of my life. ...Cheap ones, nothing over $500.
I grew up with a turntable and was buying a new LP every week when I was a young teenager.
I was big on music in my teens, but not like some kids who started @ age five or six.
I accumulated a good collection and sold it to my sister for peanuts to pay for my train ticket.
Then I restarted again collecting LPs and using my brush before each play.
I did the stylus cleanup, setting new cartridges, adjusting the azimuth, tangentials, angulars, weighting (force tracking), anti-skating, etc.
I did all that for much longer than tapes and CDs...for roughly forty years...with few short breaks between...mainly in my later years because of the "perfect" CD and the portability advantage...moving cars and walkman. Also I could record with CDs, but I never owned a recordable turntable.

Yeah, I've been there, to hell and heaven and back. ...Tony, did you see the movie Live - Die - Repeat with Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt? ;-)
 
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NorthSky

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Bob, I Have a nice TT and prefer digital. I do not find it fatiguing in the least. In fact, the most fatiguing stuff I have heard in the last several months has been from vinyl.

Joe, my Pioneer vintage TT and Sony linear drive are very inexpensive but fun. I love vinyl for the looks, but not so much for the short 20 minutes and the extended cleaning. But this is what I grew up with and my love will never die.
Right now I'm strictly setup for digital CDs, SACDs, and DVDs and Blu-rays (Music, Audio). ...And Video too...HDMI.
Also I love multichannel music, so the restriction of stereo from TTs are kind of retro from the disco years...which is not my forte.

I was humorous up to an extent when I mentioned fatigue from digital; to be more accurate I cannot define if one produces more fatigue than the other one.
I'm serious now; I never analysed that aspect or from digital CDs and from analog LPs or cassette tapes.
Let's forget cassette tapes; it was fun but it's garbage. Low fidelity.

Yes, me too in my own very modest experience with very modest audio gear I prefer digital overall. But I love analog too, just less and differently.
Less because SACDs in multichannel is the bomb! I just love it, and no TT can give me that.
I have the highest respect for ultra hi end audiophiles with a sota TT and best mastering LP music collection...Jazz from the fifties (my bag).

The emotional value that I accord to my analog life, no science will never take that away from me...it's an unconditional love affair.
And it's true that I can get fatigue from analog LP music listening too, particularly with the extreme audio frequencies.
I found a better overall balance across the full audio spectrum of digital music listening, and after say several weeks of spinning strictly LPs, it is a revelation to spin quality music recordings on CDs; the bass is much more vigorous, and the highs cleaner and better balanced with the most essential part of our music...the mids.

* This post now is serious. Everything is true from my own perspective, my sincere opinion. But my opinion is only as good as my modest experience; there are other people in this hobby who I value their opinion to a much higher level/standard.

I'm with you Joe, on a very similar ♫ wavelength.
 

JoeWhip

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It is just I read so many in the audio press describe digital as flat, hard and fatiguing and wonder what the hell are they listening to. Kind of ticks me off and is one of the reasons why I pay them so little attention these days. Even funnier, I have heard vinyl in one system and it was flat, hard and fatiguing, so much so that I had to leave the room.
 

Sal1950

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What a bunch of silliness typed in support of a reproduction media that is 30+ years obsolete both technically and audibly.
But come on Bob and Frank, I expect better from you both. I'm sure you can get up at least 5 pages of unsupportable ranting claims on this Science Based forum.
 

TBone

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Let's forget cassette tapes; it was fun but it's garbage. Low fidelity.

Cassettes had issues related to noise reduction and particularly azimuth alignment. If those two issues were corrected (I didn't use dolby and could align azimuth), cassettes provided fine fidelity. Remember, Eva Cassidy's Live at Blues Alley, is very much considered "hi-fidelity", which was a DAT transfer copied to Cassette, then mastered to CD. Again, these type of format generalizations are ...
 

NorthSky

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Cassettes had issues related to noise reduction and particularly azimuth alignment. If those two issues were corrected (I didn't use dolby and could align azimuth), cassettes provided fine fidelity. Remember, Eva Cassidy's Live at Blues Alley, is very much considered "hi-fidelity", which was a DAT transfer copied to Cassette, then mastered to CD. Again, these type of format generalizations are ...

Play some tapes and listen carefully. If you find the sound resolving as much as your LPs or CDs, then you have a sota cassette tape deck analog rig.
Dragon?
 

Blumlein 88

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I do have a working Nakamichi cassette machine with Dolby C. Not a Dragon though I did lust after those. Maybe that is what I should post up as a poll. The Nak with metal TDK cassette tape recorded with Dolby C. Record a CD then see if people can hear the difference in that and the original file ripped from CD. What do you think?
 

TBone

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Play some tapes and listen carefully. If you find the sound resolving as much as your LPs or CDs, then you have a sota cassette tape deck analog rig.
Dragon?

Prior to ripping to CD, I ripped to cassettes using the top of the line Akai's ...
 

fas42

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What a bunch of silliness typed in support of a reproduction media that is 30+ years obsolete both technically and audibly.
But come on Bob and Frank, I expect better from you both. I'm sure you can get up at least 5 pages of unsupportable ranting claims on this Science Based forum.
Sal, all media can do an excellent job of conveying the musical event that's encoded in some format. I have heard excellent sound from vinyl, from digital, from tape - all in pristine condition can do what they need to do very nicely. Which is not the same thing as saying that every time one chances upon a system based on one of these media that it will perform excellently ... or very poorly - as always, it depends, is the answer. A brand new Ferrari with a couple of faulty spark plug leads, and a badly out of balance wheel, will be a nightmare to drive - does this mean this vehicle should be got rid off ... ?

As regards owning TTs, this was over 30 years ago, just the normal type of thing of the day - since then I heard atrocious reproduction, and brilliant reproduction, from LPs on other systems - is that enough to decide the value of that medium?
 

Sal1950

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Silliness? CD is 30+ years old; none silly about that. Sal, I joined this forum not to fall into your expectation but to share a vision...mine, and to accept others. :)
Lol, it's all fine man. :D ...It's just the word..."silliness". It's a fun thread and a repeat of million others just like it.
It's the repetitive stories of our lives. I need new stuff, new food. :)
Ah good, I guess I mis-understood then and we can wrap this thread up.
If I wanted to read this kind of vinyl silliness I would have read the latest Analog Plant Uncle Mickey sent out.
 

fas42

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A very great deal can be learned by knowing how loud people's playback is usually set; and what recordings they own that they consider 'duds', and the reasons that they dislike these ones ...
 

TBone

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Ah good, I guess I mis-understood then and we can wrap this thread up.
If I wanted to read this kind of vinyl silliness I would have read the latest Analog Plant Uncle Mickey sent out.

I've had discussions with Mickey, one time when I required certain info which required much of his time & research, he was very gracious, so despite what you or others here suggest, I'll continue to read Mickey on a semi-regular basis.
 

tomelex

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I hope you guys are not serious that a cassette tape can capture music better than a CD? I don't care if its a dragon or a wagon with metal tape or scotch tape it aint gonna happen, it just can not do it, the lows and highs will be the easily obvious distractors. Now if you prefer the sound of cassette well, that's just a preference and no argument there.

The crossfeed in vinyl and the bandwidth limiting and the low frequency modulation can and indeed do sound great, atleast in the midrange, the lows, not for me. My Telarc test records have the best recording (note recording) of a beach boys song I have ever heard. The recording is where its mostly at, not the medium so much, generally speaking, imo etc blah blah
 

tomelex

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absolutely:)
 

tomelex

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TBone

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... still have my Akai's if they'd not been such a pain-in-the-bass to work on ... many boards crammed into tight spaces, w/trim pots which degraded and would ALL require replacement, proprietary transports parts ... arghh. That said, I found it ironic that those old cassette decks included faster PEAK meters than many consumer grade digital recorders who's meters were inaccurate & far too slow. Tape saturation is forgiving, clipping, not so much ...
 

Blumlein 88

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88, curious, which model Nak?

A lowly Nakamichi BX-2. One step above their least. It did have Dolby C, and did have superb performance even as a two head model. Now as an older model having two heads might be good, no need to align record and playback heads.

About 3 years ago I guess cassettes hit rock bottom. I saw some working good Nak Dragons on ebay for 2-300 bucks. Some mint models for $400. I started to purchase one because it was one of those items I always wanted. Then I wondered why? It would sit on a shelf and might never get used. Well I should have purchased them all. I guess there is a nostalgia up-swing on cassettes. The Dragons go for about 3-5 times as much on ebay now. Or least I should have gotten one of those 3 head models where they reversed the tape by.....well.....actually reversing the tape. Unlike everyone else.
 
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