Another guy on Youtube going to visit Danny down in texas....

[Peluvius]

Imagine if you could improve sound quality just by believing? I have friend who swares the best wine they have ever had comes from a plastic bladder. Are they wrong or just lucky........?

 

[bloodshoteyed]

It has propelled us to top of the charts as far as social media/forums.

exactly

but OTH that's why i can't wrap my head around why you/us (the community) should be giving him exposition on here
it almost seems like it has gotten to be a (damn fine working if you ask me) marketing trick for Danny to pick on others just to give him a share of their audiences time - with the outcome that his own keeps growing on that behalf

 

[voodooless]

but OTH that's why i can't wrap my head around why you/us (the community) should be giving him exposition on here
it almost seems like it has gotten to be a (damn fine working if you ask me) marketing trick for Danny to pick on others just to give him a share of their audiences time - with the outcome that his own keeps growing on that behalf

Well, whatever he might think he's doing, it not working:

He's been losing 50% of his traffic over the past year. See https://www.spyfu.com/overview/domain?query=gr-research.com

 

[Mark_A]

Imagine if you could improve sound quality just by believing? I have friend who swares the best wine they have ever had comes from a plastic bladder. Are they wrong or just lucky........?

Have you ever heard a wine connoisseur talk about the qualities of a specific wine? It's almost 100% BS. Costco has sold a lot of wine at very reasonable prices, because they do blind taste tests, and many consumers have realized that even Costco Kirkland brand wine is often quite good.

 

[Mark_A]

You overestimate how many people would be interested in measurements. When people buy audio equipment, the main question is "how does it sound".

That is true, But when I look at the Q&A section of Amazon listings for things like speakers, it is very common for people to ask about how much amplifier power is required for the speaker, and they are concerned because the product write-up will say something like 400 watts rating for the speaker. Many consumers somehow believe that the higher the wattage rating of the speaker, the better it is, or that they need an amplifier that can output the maximum speaker power rating.

Of course the speaker maximum power rating is usually not the same as the amount of amplifier power needed, because the efficiency of the speaker has to be taken into account (along with the size of the listening room). So customers are interested in specifications and measurements, but there is not much standardization and most consumers don't know what the specifications and measurements mean, and manufacturers/retails will often try to exploit the consumers lack of understanding. Same applies to amplifier ratings, which are no longer required to publish only the FTC specifications (RMS, both channels driven, at a specified distortion level).

 

[Mark_A]

Here is some interesting information about Jay (from this comment he made on YouTube):

"I'm [Jay] a researcher for the university that leads 3 different human hearing research teams. I have two science degrees and an engineering degree and worked in numerous recording studios but that has nothing to do with my channel so why does that matter. THAT is not what got my channel to where it is today."

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG8GZMXiVDTWk8U5PnOmJcw/community?lb=Ugkxm1RfoYKFP236c8_9PrsQc4z8d7cQg2Ks

Jay previously worked at Audio Excellence in Toronto Canada (which has its own YouTube channel) and he understands what sells, in terms of products and in terms of YouTube video views. There are people these days who will spend money on things that don't really matter, either because being an audiophile is a hobby, or they can afford to buy things that don't actually improve the sound.

 

[delta76]

Jay previously worked at Audio Excellence in Toronto Canada (which has its own YouTube channel) and he understands what sells, in terms of products and in terms of YouTube video views. There are people these days who will spend money on things that don't really matter, either because being an audiophile is a hobby, or they can afford to buy things that don't actually improve the sound.

Confirmation bias. When you watch a video saying cables matter, and then you see comments confirm those claims, if you didn't know better, you will start to think cables really matter (I was there and which was why I didn't get into critical listening, because it felt both too complicated and too expensive)
as I mentioned in a previous post, the kickback for things like this is crazy, both on percentage and absolute amount. that's the biggest incentive for those Youtubers.

 

[Mark_A]

Confirmation bias. When you watch a video saying cables matter, and then you see comments confirm those claims, if you didn't know better, you will start to think cables really matter (I was there and which was why I didn't get into critical listening, because it felt both too complicated and too expensive)
as I mentioned in a previous post, the kickback for things like this is crazy, both on percentage and absolute amount. that's the biggest incentive for those Youtubers.

Yes, of course it is confirmation bias. But most of them don't care. It's similar to buying a Rolls Royce. It's not technologically superior to other autos, it's a status symbol. Many people buy classic cars that are technologically primitive (and even not luxurious), because it is a hobby. There are a lot of people who have too much money to spend.

 

[delta76]

Yes, of course it is confirmation bias. But most of them don't care. It's similar to buying a Rolls Royce. It's not technologically superior to other autos, it's a status symbol. Many people buy classic cars that are technologically primitive (and even not luxurious), because it is a hobby. There are a lot of people who have too much money to spend.

I think that's two types of people. People who are ultrawealthy do not watch video like those. they come to a showroom and ask for a package (if not just ask their assistants). and the others are just people like you and me, with a budget. but instead of spending more on their speakers, they have to buy an expensive cable because it would make their speakers sound better.

just like people buy $250 pair speakers, and spend another $250 or more on an "upgrade". Should have bought $500 ones but, well, they believe that is better in the end

 

[Vacceo]

I have no interest in consulting for anyone. As for them getting into audio testing, they don't know what they are in for. All the complaining, whining, badgering, etc. Heck, I have people making youtube videos complaining about my test results. He has seen nothing yet. If he is smart, he would stay way the heck away from audio. None of his current credentials carries any water with rabid audiophiles.

As to your starting comment, I have not remotely stooped to anyone's level. I take what they say and make a technical topic out of it. Feedback from youtube watchers is overwhelmingly positive. It is in the forum where people find nothing better to do than to protest.

Your answer has made me think of an element that is not audio related, but audio industry related. ASR forum shows a huge amount of readers, your videos on youtube, not so much yet; but the combination of both is showing, little by little, its effects on the industry.

Let´s say that Linus started doing tests akin to yours in terms of rigor, detail, and fairness. How do you think the manufacturers may react to him? I mean, Linus has several millions of subscribers, hence, his content has a massive, world wide, audience. I have no idea if you have had pressure from manufacturers not to publish bad reviews, but while you don´t make money from sponsors, Linus does.

I´m sure Marantz or NAD are not super happy about the results your tests render, but Linus publishing similar data will not just itch them, it will hurt them.

 

[mhardy6647]

If you've seen the movie "Margin Call", the top guy at the fictional investment firm has decided to sell all their mortgage backed securities. This being a dramatization of the 2008 collapse. One of the other top guys doesn't like it and says, "But you'll be selling something you know has no value". The top dog vociferously objects and corrects him, "We'll be selling to willing buyers at the current fair market price. No different than what we've been doing". Of course this is after describing their holdings earlier in the meeting as, "the biggest bag of odorous excrement in the history of capitalism." I think this attitude describes lots of these people.

1) It's funny that this same movie (and another, similar one) were just brought up over at the Polk forums in a decidedly less metaphorical context.
2) Those guys selling weird investments in the 2006-8 timeframe hadn't even thought of NFTs.

 

[mhardy6647]

Schaumschläger

Well, Schaum is foam.
Schläger would be one who hits/strikes.

Sculptor of foam, maybe? (sort of like sculpting fog, which was a popular phrase in the for-profit world about the time I left it)

 

[fuzzychaos]

I have no interest in consulting for anyone. As for them getting into audio testing, they don't know what they are in for. All the complaining, whining, badgering, etc. Heck, I have people making youtube videos complaining about my test results. He has seen nothing yet. If he is smart, he would stay way the heck away from audio. None of his current credentials carries any water with rabid audiophiles.

As to your starting comment, I have not remotely stooped to anyone's level. I take what they say and make a technical topic out of it. Feedback from youtube watchers is overwhelmingly positive. It is in the forum where people find nothing better to do than to protest.

Linus, I'm sure, is aware of whining, badgering, etc, I'm sure...his channel does tech reviews and tech fanatics are just as vitriolic as the audio ones, maybe more so. The debates in the tech world can be just as ugly as the audiophile ones (mac vs PC for example). When someone is passionate about a subject, it can quickly devolve into ad hominem attacks.

Regarding his credentials, he may not have the necessary ones that certain audiophiles would look for, but he has hired and will hire people with impeccable ones to do the jobs he is underqualified or unqualified for.

I am not saying that you personally were stooping to their level, I should have made that clear. I meant that other users on the forum, however, are.

Danny and others like him are zealots and it does not matter how often you prove that the science doesn't support their claims, it will not make a difference to him or those like him. There is a phenomenon where people will cling harder to their beliefs, even when confronted with unassailable facts. No amount of testing will convince them that measurements are better than their own ears, even though they are the weakest link in the audio chain. So, as your YouTube channel grows, just like your site, the naysayers will start to increase their comments.

 

[amirm]

Danny and others like him are zealots and it does not matter how often you prove that the science doesn't support their claims, it will not make a difference to him or those like him

Well he has changed. At the start he thought he had so much star power and authority that anything I did won't even be noticed. He said so to me in email with extreme directness. Three videos later he is realizing the power of what we do here. That empty claims and personal insults are no answer to objectively driven review and testing.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

I think that's two types of people. People who are ultrawealthy do not watch video like those. they come to a showroom and ask for a package (if not just ask their assistants). and the others are just people like you and me, with a budget. but instead of spending more on their speakers, they have to buy an expensive cable because it would make their speakers sound better.

just like people buy $250 pair speakers, and spend another $250 or more on an "upgrade". Should have bought $500 ones but, well, they believe that is better in the end

There is a high-end audio shop in town here that advertises and sells so-called ‘packages’ in the tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah the rich people just come in and say “sell me something my Porsche driving buddies will be impressed with.”
But of course they expect it to sound great as well for $30-80000.

 

[Vacceo]

There is a high-end audio shop in town here that advertises and sells so-called ‘packages’ in the tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah the rich people just come in and say “sell me something my Porsche driving buddies will be impressed with.”
But of course they expect it to sound great as well for $30-80000.

And the sad part is, that there is no reason not to, insane price or not.

 

[Mark_A]

Danny and others like him are zealots and it does not matter how often you prove that the science doesn't support their claims, it will not make a difference to him or those like him. There is a phenomenon where people will cling harder to their beliefs, even when confronted with unassailable facts. No amount of testing will convince them that measurements are better than their own ears, even though they are the weakest link in the audio chain. So, as your YouTube channel grows, just like your site, the naysayers will start to increase their comments.

I don't think Danny is as stupid as you think he is. He knows exactly what he is doing. He looks around and sees a lot of high end cable companies selling outrageously expensive cables, and he thinks he can make some cables that look just as impressive for 1/4 the price (but still very expensive that are very profitable). The same way he makes DIY speakers that are cheaper than many high end factory finished speakers. He knows what he is doing, trying to make money. I don't believe for an instant that Danny really thinks those expensive cables (his or others) really make an audible difference.

 

[fuzzychaos]

I don't think Danny is as stupid as you think he is. He knows exactly what he is doing. He looks around and sees a lot of high end cable companies selling outrageously expensive cables, and he thinks he can make some cables that look just as impressive for 1/4 the price (but still very expensive that are very profitable). The same way he makes DIY speakers that are cheaper than many high end factory finished speakers. He knows what he is doing, trying to make money. I don't believe for an instant that Danny really thinks those expensive cables (his or others) really make an audible difference.

I never said he was stupid, I said he was a zealot. I do believe he is a true believer, however.

 

[Mark_A]

I never said he was stupid, I said he was a zealot. I do believe he is a true believer, however.

What I meant is that I don't think he really believes that stuff he says about his cables. He is trying to make money.

 

[Mark_A]

True. And there are two ways to make money in this world:

1) Honestly

2) Dishonestly

Which way describes Danny?

Jim

There isn't a high-end audio retailer anywhere in the world that doesn't sell cables even more expensive than those from GR-Research to their customers. It basically comes down to caveat emptor (buyer beware).