• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Announcement: ASR Will Be Measuring Speakers!

dshreter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
807
Likes
1,254
What's great is: since ASR is measuring speakers, nobody is interested in DAC/amp measurements anymore and we are now focusing on the real thing, where the $$$ should go. Instead of "upgrading" for diminishing or best said: inaudible returns.

Next step will be room reviews though.
Please visit my thread on the quantification of stereo imaging. I would love any ideas on how to go about measuring total system performance in room, and I’ve set out to explore one of the facets.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/the-quantification-of-stereo-imaging.11039/
 

Karu

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Messages
220
Likes
200
Based in Joetell’s site, if not mentioned, the Wharfedale Denton 85 would be interesting to see tested
 

napilopez

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
2,146
Likes
8,711
Location
NYC
It's an exciting time in the objectivist world of audio =] I appreciate the post linked above (the link is broken, but it's here); I think it puts into context the work Amir has been doing. There has never been such a density of speaker measurements made available so rapidly, and most certainly not in this quality. So despite squabbles here and there, it really is a massive boon to the hobby.
 

milosz

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
588
Likes
1,652
Location
Chicago
The Klippel automated method and Spinorama charting tell you a LOT about the speaker but there are still differences that you can hear which must somehow be buried in the fine detail of these measurements. The measurements don't seem to properly weight all the features that a human listener seeks in the sound.

For example, take two Revel speaker models which look quite similar on the spinorama and listeners will be able to hear distinct differences. ( Revel uses spinorama to optimize their sound, which is why I picked them for the example - there are surely Revel models which look very similar on spinoramae )

Likely whatever the human listener is hearing CAN be measured - these factors are probably somewhere in the data - but bringing them out to view on a chart is so far an inexact science.

The spinorama coupled with the Klippel robot seems to be the best tool so far.... but it is based on steady state measurement, and it would be good to also know more about speaker behavior in the time domain; after all music has lots of short duration events in it and characterizing the speakers behavior in regard to these signals would likely add quite a bit to overall characterization of the speakers sound.

Waterfall plots kind of start down this road but present almost too much data, data for which we don't really have proper analysis methods. You can see resonances and gross stored-energy problems but I think there is a lot more we need to know about this facet of speaker behavior- how does it respond to short duration events at various frequencies and at various output levels. Some new methods are needed.
 
Last edited:

milosz

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
588
Likes
1,652
Location
Chicago
I want to see $$spendy speaker cables measured for capacitance, inductance and resistance... and then blind A/B/X testing of those $$$$speaker wires against a length of 14 ga zip cord to which is added the appropriate network to match the L, C and R of the high-zoot wire.

I **REALLY** want to see a blind listening fork of ASR. I'll buy a Bybee for it!
 

Xyrium

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
574
Likes
493
What's great is: since ASR is measuring speakers, nobody is interested in DAC/amp measurements anymore and we are now focusing on the real thing, where the $$$ should go. Instead of "upgrading" for diminishing or best said: inaudible returns.

Next step will be room reviews though.

I definitely agree, the biggest bang for the buck is in the speakers.

However, I still like the electronics reviews, as they frequently reveal imbalances, actual QC problems, and even sometimes audible defects. So, I hope they continue! :)
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,155
Likes
16,841
Location
Central Fl
What's great is: since ASR is measuring speakers, nobody is interested in DAC/amp measurements anymore and we are now focusing on the real thing, where the $$$ should go. Instead of "upgrading" for diminishing or best said: inaudible returns.
That's going over the edge a bit. Yes it's hard to get audible gains in equipment by measuring DAC's within limits. Modern power amps "should" be transparent but simple measurements like power output and gain can tell you things about how well a particular amp might mate with a particular speaker load and preamp. MHO is that it is a waste of time to be concerned about the high end amps (5 digit and more) when we know a $3k amp will deliver SOTA sound into any load within its power rating, and there are others that will do the same for much less, the numbers reveal them.
And then there's the AVR and AV pre/pro's where much failing has been revealed. These facts have spread thru the High Fidelity community like wildfire. I have high hopes that these failings will force the manufacturers to take a second look at some of their designs, make some improvements, and use these improvements to make advertising and marketing claims. A new spec war on the things that count would bring audible improvements to us all.
Bottom line, the speaker measurements are awesome and giving us all very valuable input. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and turn our backs on the other corners of audio where there is still room for improvement. ;)
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,590
Likes
239,536
Location
Seattle Area
I will continue testing electronics. I have slowed their rate some to allow time for testing of speakers. But the flow continues.
 

escalibur

Active Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
236
Likes
161
I will continue testing electronics. I have slowed their rate some to allow time for testing of speakers. But the flow continues.
Any ETA regarding Topping A50 and Burson measurements?
 

trl

Major Contributor
King of Mods
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
1,978
Likes
2,539
Location
Iasi, RO
I will continue testing electronics. I have slowed their rate some to allow time for testing of speakers. But the flow continues.
Now you need to leave them untouched in the lobby for 4-5 days for the Corona to get away? :)
 

andymok

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
562
Likes
553
Location
Hong Kong
I know I'm greedy, seeing this pop-up reminds me of monitor reviews again ...:facepalm:
 

derbidrd

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
18
Likes
20

tsanguine

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
144
Location
Salem Oregon
Hello amirm, there is a long thread in avsforum about how the behringer b215xl are a bargain for home theater use. Do you think you could measure them? https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-l-r-mains.html?amp=1

Thank you for your work.
If I had a chance I would bring him the Behringer B212XL. I'm a couple hours south and have three of them. Having two little kids pretty much nixes that. Shipping would be too much in my opinion unless someone else is paying. They are not small speakers. Unless someone is close and willing to make the trip I wouldn't mind parting for a bit.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,590
Likes
239,536
Location
Seattle Area
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,590
Likes
239,536
Location
Seattle Area
If I had a chance I would bring him the Behringer B212XL. I'm a couple hours south and have three of them. Having two little kids pretty much nixes that. Shipping would be too much in my opinion unless someone else is paying. They are not small speakers. Unless someone is close and willing to make the trip I wouldn't mind parting for a bit.
Do you mind going to UPS website and getting an estimate for ground shipping? It may not be much given our distance.
 

tsanguine

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
144
Location
Salem Oregon
I'll take a look tomorrow. They aren't terribly heavy but big. I'm curious how they will measure. It depends on what we are looking for. They have no bass whatsoever and absolutely need a subwoofer hence the desire to use them in home theaters. The dynamics of their compression driver is what makes them work for HT applications. I do recall that there was a big difference to the horizontal dispersion between the 12 and 15 inch models.
 

derbidrd

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
18
Likes
20
I'll take a look tomorrow. They aren't terribly heavy but big. I'm curious how they will measure. It depends on what we are looking for. They have no bass whatsoever and absolutely need a subwoofer hence the desire to use them in home theaters. The dynamics of their compression driver is what makes them work for HT applications. I do recall that there was a big difference to the horizontal dispersion between the 12 and 15 inch models.

The B212xl have a worse frequency response from what I remember, I personnaly own the B215xl and I really like them, but I'm in France so I can't send them to Amirm.
 
Top Bottom