Announcement: ASR Will Be Measuring Speakers!

[dshreter]

What's great is: since ASR is measuring speakers, nobody is interested in DAC/amp measurements anymore and we are now focusing on the real thing, where the $$$ should go. Instead of "upgrading" for diminishing or best said: inaudible returns.

Next step will be room reviews though.

Please visit my thread on the quantification of stereo imaging. I would love any ideas on how to go about measuring total system performance in room, and I’ve set out to explore one of the facets.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/the-quantification-of-stereo-imaging.11039/

 

[Karu]

Based in Joetell’s site, if not mentioned, the Wharfedale Denton 85 would be interesting to see tested

 

[SDX-LV]

https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/2020/03/2020-Speaker-Data-Revolution.html made by @amirm

 

[napilopez]

It's an exciting time in the objectivist world of audio =] I appreciate the post linked above (the link is broken, but it's here); I think it puts into context the work Amir has been doing. There has never been such a density of speaker measurements made available so rapidly, and most certainly not in this quality. So despite squabbles here and there, it really is a massive boon to the hobby.

 

[milosz]

The Klippel automated method and Spinorama charting tell you a LOT about the speaker but there are still differences that you can hear which must somehow be buried in the fine detail of these measurements. The measurements don't seem to properly weight all the features that a human listener seeks in the sound.

For example, take two Revel speaker models which look quite similar on the spinorama and listeners will be able to hear distinct differences. ( Revel uses spinorama to optimize their sound, which is why I picked them for the example - there are surely Revel models which look very similar on spinoramae )

Likely whatever the human listener is hearing CAN be measured - these factors are probably somewhere in the data - but bringing them out to view on a chart is so far an inexact science.

The spinorama coupled with the Klippel robot seems to be the best tool so far.... but it is based on steady state measurement, and it would be good to also know more about speaker behavior in the time domain; after all music has lots of short duration events in it and characterizing the speakers behavior in regard to these signals would likely add quite a bit to overall characterization of the speakers sound.

Waterfall plots kind of start down this road but present almost too much data, data for which we don't really have proper analysis methods. You can see resonances and gross stored-energy problems but I think there is a lot more we need to know about this facet of speaker behavior- how does it respond to short duration events at various frequencies and at various output levels. Some new methods are needed.

 

[milosz]

I want to see $$spendy speaker cables measured for capacitance, inductance and resistance... and then blind A/B/X testing of those $$$$speaker wires against a length of 14 ga zip cord to which is added the appropriate network to match the L, C and R of the high-zoot wire.

I **REALLY** want to see a blind listening fork of ASR. I'll buy a Bybee for it!

 

[Xyrium]

What's great is: since ASR is measuring speakers, nobody is interested in DAC/amp measurements anymore and we are now focusing on the real thing, where the $$$ should go. Instead of "upgrading" for diminishing or best said: inaudible returns.

Next step will be room reviews though.

I definitely agree, the biggest bang for the buck is in the speakers.

However, I still like the electronics reviews, as they frequently reveal imbalances, actual QC problems, and even sometimes audible defects. So, I hope they continue!

 

[Sal1950]

What's great is: since ASR is measuring speakers, nobody is interested in DAC/amp measurements anymore and we are now focusing on the real thing, where the $$$ should go. Instead of "upgrading" for diminishing or best said: inaudible returns.

That's going over the edge a bit. Yes it's hard to get audible gains in equipment by measuring DAC's within limits. Modern power amps "should" be transparent but simple measurements like power output and gain can tell you things about how well a particular amp might mate with a particular speaker load and preamp. MHO is that it is a waste of time to be concerned about the high end amps (5 digit and more) when we know a $3k amp will deliver SOTA sound into any load within its power rating, and there are others that will do the same for much less, the numbers reveal them.
And then there's the AVR and AV pre/pro's where much failing has been revealed. These facts have spread thru the High Fidelity community like wildfire. I have high hopes that these failings will force the manufacturers to take a second look at some of their designs, make some improvements, and use these improvements to make advertising and marketing claims. A new spec war on the things that count would bring audible improvements to us all.
Bottom line, the speaker measurements are awesome and giving us all very valuable input. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and turn our backs on the other corners of audio where there is still room for improvement.

 

[amirm]

I will continue testing electronics. I have slowed their rate some to allow time for testing of speakers. But the flow continues.

 

[escalibur]

I will continue testing electronics. I have slowed their rate some to allow time for testing of speakers. But the flow continues.

Any ETA regarding Topping A50 and Burson measurements?

 

[trl]

I will continue testing electronics. I have slowed their rate some to allow time for testing of speakers. But the flow continues.

Now you need to leave them untouched in the lobby for 4-5 days for the Corona to get away?

 

[andymok]

I know I'm greedy, seeing this pop-up reminds me of monitor reviews again ...

 

[derbidrd]

I will continue testing electronics. I have slowed their rate some to allow time for testing of speakers. But the flow continues.

Hello amirm, there is a long thread in avsforum about how the behringer b215xl are a bargain for home theater use. Do you think you could measure them? https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-l-r-mains.html?amp=1

Thank you for your work.

 

[tsanguine]

Hello amirm, there is a long thread in avsforum about how the behringer b215xl are a bargain for home theater use. Do you think you could measure them? https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-l-r-mains.html?amp=1

Thank you for your work.

If I had a chance I would bring him the Behringer B212XL. I'm a couple hours south and have three of them. Having two little kids pretty much nixes that. Shipping would be too much in my opinion unless someone else is paying. They are not small speakers. Unless someone is close and willing to make the trip I wouldn't mind parting for a bit.

 

[amirm]

Hello amirm, there is a long thread in avsforum about how the behringer b215xl are a bargain for home theater use. Do you think you could measure them? https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-l-r-mains.html?amp=1

Thank you for your work.

Thank you for kind words. I do like to test them. They are $258 on Amazon. If a couple of people donate money toward the effort, I will purchase and test.

 

[amirm]

If I had a chance I would bring him the Behringer B212XL. I'm a couple hours south and have three of them. Having two little kids pretty much nixes that. Shipping would be too much in my opinion unless someone else is paying. They are not small speakers. Unless someone is close and willing to make the trip I wouldn't mind parting for a bit.

Do you mind going to UPS website and getting an estimate for ground shipping? It may not be much given our distance.

 

[tsanguine]

I'll take a look tomorrow. They aren't terribly heavy but big. I'm curious how they will measure. It depends on what we are looking for. They have no bass whatsoever and absolutely need a subwoofer hence the desire to use them in home theaters. The dynamics of their compression driver is what makes them work for HT applications. I do recall that there was a big difference to the horizontal dispersion between the 12 and 15 inch models.

 

[derbidrd]

I'll take a look tomorrow. They aren't terribly heavy but big. I'm curious how they will measure. It depends on what we are looking for. They have no bass whatsoever and absolutely need a subwoofer hence the desire to use them in home theaters. The dynamics of their compression driver is what makes them work for HT applications. I do recall that there was a big difference to the horizontal dispersion between the 12 and 15 inch models.

The B212xl have a worse frequency response from what I remember, I personnaly own the B215xl and I really like them, but I'm in France so I can't send them to Amirm.