Announcement: ASR Will Be Measuring Speakers!

[AustinsGuitar]

Which model?

Hmm. They have a series of speakers that are classified as reference. It would be interesting to see whether that holds up. I havent been able to see any reviews online with definitive evidence backing these clames. Just a bunch of people saying that they are amazing, and what artists "intended" the audio to sound like. Been thinking about getting the R-51m for quite some time.

 

[JustIntonation]

Fantastic news! You rock

And since you're almost broke now, here a suggestion for a budget monitor that should measure very nice for its price range: Kali LP-6

 

[amirm]

And since you're almost broke now, here a suggestion for a budget monitor that should measure very nice for its price range: Kali LP-6

I ain't that cheap. A Kali IN-8 has been purchased by a kind member and drop shipped to me.

 

[fredoamigo]

Can you give me a hint? Will the first loudspeaker that goes through the klippel already be measured by another one, or will it be a loudspeaker that's never been measured anywhere?

 

[RayDunzl]

@amirm

About how long does the Klippel take to mechanically cycle through one set of the measurements you're likely to make?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Can you give me a hint? Will the first loudspeaker that goes through the klippel already be measured by another one, or will it be a loudspeaker that's never been measured anywhere?

My guess is the LSR305 mkII is going to be first. So he can compare with Harman as a check he is getting good results.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@amirm

About how long does the Klippel take to mechanically cycle through one set of the measurements you're likely to make?

I don't know, but I'm hoping in the future he'll set up the Klippel in a large hollow van. Then he can travel the country doing remote speaker measuring all over. If you agree to bring your speakers to the curb, he'll measure them in his rolling Klippel van.

 

[amirm]

@amirm

About how long does the Klippel take to mechanically cycle through one set of the measurements you're likely to make?

For the first one it took about one hour. The more complex the speaker, the more points needed.

 

[fredoamigo]

My guess is the LSR305 mkII is going to be first. So he can compare with Harman as a check he is getting good results.

Yes, indeed. That's why I asked the question.

 

[Biblob]

Two questions:
Will you be able to measure soundbars as well?
And could you measure, with active speakers, the noise coming from the amps at 1 meter (or other distance)? This is a very important element for studio monitors, to me.

 

[MZKM]

Will you be able to measure soundbars as well?

Rtings has started measuring soundbars, but unless you go Incognito they limit how many measurements you can see.

Measuring soundbars would take time away from reviewing speakers and I don’t think many users here will care; soundbars are for those wanting simplicity/low profile/WAF; you can easily buy a speaker system that would put perform it for similar price.

 

[Biblob]

Rtings has started measuring soundbars, but unless you go Incognito they limit how many measurements you can see.

Measuring soundbars would take time away from reviewing speakers and I don’t think many users here will care; soundbars are for those wanting simplicity/low profile/WAF; you can easily buy a speaker system that would put perform it for similar price.

Well the thing to me is, if it's the case that soundbars measure well, they would be a good alternative for speakers. For now, I don't know.
Thanks for noticing me on the Rtings measurements.

 

[kaka89]

Soundbar don't produce sounds as a normal stereo speaker do.
Soundbar use reflection to create a sense of 3d audio. And it is multi-channel. I don't think speaker and soundbar's measurement is comparable in this case.

 

[bobbooo]

Soundbar don't produce sounds as a normal stereo speaker do.
Soundbar use reflection to create a sense of 3d audio. And it is multi-channel. I don't think speaker and soundbar's measurement is comparable in this case.

Exactly. This poor stereo imaging is due to the left and right channel drivers being too close to each other for the average listening distance. I don't think the Klippel system will be able to measure this stereo deficiency as it seems to be designed for single speakers.

 

[mkawa]

measurements of the inexpensive micca monitors on amazon would be a cool first step.

 

[amirm]

The system is designed to measure soundbars. I will probably measure one or two at some point.

 

[amirm]

On active speaker hiss at what axis you want it measured?

 

[scott wurcer]

I don't know, but I'm hoping in the future he'll set up the Klippel in a large hollow van. Then he can travel the country doing remote speaker measuring all over. If you agree to bring your speakers to the curb, he'll measure them in his rolling Klippel van.

View attachment 45118

I remain very disappointed that the DIY Klippel project stalled. It's one of those things, quirky personalities whatever.

 

[bobbooo]

The system is designed to measure soundbars. I will probably measure one or two at some point.

The problem of a fixed physical channel separation for soundbars remains though, so won't the measurements give a false indication of sound quality, specifically stereo imaging, as I presume this is not taken into account by the Klippel system as it's primarily for measuring single speakers?

 

[617]

On active speaker hiss at what axis you want it measured?

Given we're talking about white noise, on axis would make sense.

Calibrating SPL to make meaningful measurements of 1. hiss and 2. overall output level is difficult. Different active speakers have different input sensitivities and gain. If you don't want to use a calibrated mic you could use a simple SPL meter. I'm not sure what Klippel recommends but I can't imagine their system is designed to be run without SPL reference.

I really like Kali's SPL/Distortion specification. They characterize the SPL/Distortion characteristics in two sections:

Listening Distance @ 85db continuous with 20db peaks
Basically, how far can you sit and still get loud, dynamic sound.

System THD:
<1.1% from 70 Hz to 200 Hz
<0.8% from 200 Hz to 3.6kHz
<1.4% from 3.6kHz to 10kHz (90dB SPL @1m)
These could be replaced with a graph of course, but a good way to compare speakers.

They also give a Max SPL figure but I think these are deceptive/meaningless.

Now, back to the noise/hiss issue. I would measure it as follows:
Set the speaker's gain to a figure which gives you 90db at 1M given a callibrated input (2V pink noise or whatever). Measure noise levels before/after turning speaker on and off at 10cm to limit room effects.

Someone more knowledgeable can suggest specific improvements to this method but this is the basic idea.