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Android upsampling with USB DAC

MrNice13

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I actually use Deezer that output 44.1khz 16 bit FLAC with my phone and the samsung dongle. But what I don't understand is that android upsample the Deezer files that are natively CD quality redbook. 44.1KHz / 16-bit music is always routed through android's Mixer, which upsamples it to 48khz ? Even with streaming app or HIFI files? So there's no way that I can listening the native Deezer flac files on my phone.
I was thinking of buying the iFi GO link for an upgrade of my Samsung dongle but if I cannot hear the native flac Deezer files and android upsample it it cannot be an upgrade if the sound going to be affected..

Pardon for my English hehe

Thanks guys
 

threni

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I actually use Deezer that output 44.1khz 16 bit FLAC with my phone and the samsung dongle. But what I don't understand is that android upsample the Deezer files that are natively CD quality redbook. 44.1KHz / 16-bit music is always routed through android's Mixer, which upsamples it to 48khz ? Even with streaming app or HIFI files? So there's no way that I can listening the native Deezer flac files on my phone.
I was thinking of buying the iFi GO link for an upgrade of my Samsung dongle but if I cannot hear the native flac Deezer files and android upsample it it cannot be an upgrade if the sound going to be affected..

Pardon for my English hehe

Thanks guys
I don't listen to streaming services so can't help you with deezer but if you want to listen to local flac files on android in a bit perfect way you need an app such as UAPP.
 

Jimbob54

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Yup, if you want to avoid the android mixer /resampling you need UAPP, hiby player or neutron player.

The only one of those that I know is a streaming clent is uapp and that's tidal and qobuz.

The tidal app itself I believe can also bypass.

Now, how audible that resampling is I know not.
 

staticV3

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HiBy Music also works with Tidal and iirc, Tidal have recently started removing direct USB access from their native App.

@MrNice13 consider switching from Deezer to Qobuz, then playing that through UAPP for bit-perfect playback.
There are websites that can transfer all you favorites and playlists between services: https://soundiiz.com/
 
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MrNice13

MrNice13

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Thanks for the reply guys, yeah I heard about UAPP or hiby but I think it's only local files I don't think I can set the bitrate and go back to Deezer for example. Maybe I can download the files locally. Yeah I maybee need to switch to tidal but I prefer the Deezer UI and don't need MQA and all tidal features.
 
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MrNice13

MrNice13

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Yup. Really don't know why android resample to 48khz and how is impact the sound quality from an 44.1khz streaming apps.
HiBy Music also works with Tidal and iirc, Tidal have recently started removing direct USB access from their native App.

@MrNice13 consider switching from Deezer to Qobuz, then playing that through UAPP for bit-perfect playback.
 
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MrNice13

MrNice13

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I maybee going to try Qobuz but I hope they have a good catalogue.
Thanks for the tips

an play local files, Tidal, and Qobuz through UAPP, which means you get bit-perfect streaming.
 

Jimbob54

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Yup. Really don't know why android resample to 48khz and how is impact the sound quality from an 44.1khz streaming apps.
It has to output everything at the same sample rate including system sounds, youtube, music at different sample rates etc so 48 is as good as any other.

Same on PC, if you go through the Windows mixer everything gets resampled to selected output rate.

Its unfortunate the streaming services havent all included USB dac control but I guess too many makes/ drivers and too many android builds to keep current.
 
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MrNice13

MrNice13

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It has to output everything at the same sample rate including system sounds, youtube, music at different sample rates etc so 48 is as good as any other.

Same on PC, if you go through the Windows mixer everything gets resampled to selected output rate.

Its unfortunate the streaming services havent all included USB dac control but I guess too many makes/ drivers and too many android builds to keep current.
So if I'm streaming threw Deezer and the bitrate of the Android is 48 how it can resample the 44.1 music of deezer. I'm hearing a resample of the original 44.1 flac to 48? Wondering if it's putting something to the sound quality... :/
 
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MrNice13

MrNice13

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So you need a app and the streaming compatible app for bit rate perfect listening. Or local files.
 

Jimbob54

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I'm hearing a resample of the original 44.1 flac to 48?
Yup. And a I said, I can't tell you if there is any audible impact of that resample. I've not done any digging but I assume someone has tested it but it might be build dependant.

For my money, qobuz plus uapp is a no brainer given you can get a good eq plug in for uapp.
 

antcollinet

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So if I'm streaming threw Deezer and the bitrate of the Android is 48 how it can resample the 44.1 music of deezer. I'm hearing a resample of the original 44.1 flac to 48? Wondering if it's putting something to the sound quality... :/
If resampling is done properly it won't result in any audible impact to the music.

Are you hearing anything that suggests it is not being done properly: Are you hearing anything wrong with the music?
 
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MrNice13

MrNice13

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If resampling is done properly it won't result in any audible impact to the music.

Are you hearing anything that suggests it is not being done properly: Are you hearing anything wrong with the music?
No but its in my head maybee but I like having bitrate perfect if Deezer stream flac at 44.1 I want to hear the original not upsample I don't know how.. But like Jim said I might try qobuz with uapp.
 
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MrNice13

MrNice13

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Hi,
Ok just got Qobuz with UAPP. First the fact that we can bypass the android mixer is so nice. In UAPP you clearly see what the USB DAC output and the file bitrate etc I test listening Sledgehammer from Peter Gabriel on Deezer so with the upsample to 48 and on UAPP I force 44khz 16 bit because it was HI-RES to see if I noticed a sound and clearly the android upsample change something in the sound. A lot of artist have 44.1 16 bit files and its what Deezer output but the up sampling affect somehow the sound. I ear some things now that I was not hearing in Deezer. The gain is completely different too... In Deezer with some iems I was nearly at 90% all the time now its more 65 for a comfortable listening.. It's worth buying the UAPP app for sure. Even with the shure SE215 this morning I smile using Qobuz and UAPP. The UI of uapp is not so bad too. Note that I use the Samsung dongle and the sound is awesome :)
 

MKW

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This is a good thread -thanks! I'm using old Samsung Note9 with DeX dock to port HDMI video to TV and USB audio to Denafrips Ares2 (12th+ firmware) - Ares2 front panel indicates 48kHz x 4 regardless of what is playing (FLAC via NAS, AmazonMusicUltraHD, YouTubeMusicPremium). I was questioning this, and now this thread confirms Android upsamples everything.
For my purposes using the Note9, there doesn't seem to be a viable app (that supports every streamer) to solve the issue. Seems like there is a need for a 'simple' Android app that allows bypassing the Android mixer and ports all media via their native bit-rates.
I tried Neutron and that app seems nice, but wants to be a music server (gate). We don't want that, we want an upsampling bypass app that doesn't care what's playing and still controls volume to the HDMI and USB outputs.
 

antcollinet

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This is a good thread -thanks! I'm using old Samsung Note9 with DeX dock to port HDMI video to TV and USB audio to Denafrips Ares2 (12th+ firmware) - Ares2 front panel indicates 48kHz x 4 regardless of what is playing (FLAC via NAS, AmazonMusicUltraHD, YouTubeMusicPremium). I was questioning this, and now this thread confirms Android upsamples everything.
For my purposes using the Note9, there doesn't seem to be a viable app (that supports every streamer) to solve the issue. Seems like there is a need for a 'simple' Android app that allows bypassing the Android mixer and ports all media via their native bit-rates.
I tried Neutron and that app seems nice, but wants to be a music server (gate). We don't want that, we want an upsampling bypass app that doesn't care what's playing and still controls volume to the HDMI and USB outputs.
If you want to control volume then you are no longer bit perfect so what's the point?

Digital volume will have greater impact on the music than (properly done) resampling. Though the impact of digital volume is still not audible.
 

roladyzator

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The output sample rate depends on USB Audio device class.

For USB class 1 devices it may be 48 kHz, but for USB class 2 it is often 192 kHz (checked with my Shanling M0 which has a display that shows the sampling rate).

I can't hear a difference between shared or direct USB mode (in UAPP or Neutron) anyway.
 

Atanasi

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Its unfortunate the streaming services havent all included USB dac control but I guess too many makes/ drivers and too many android builds to keep current.
Starting from Android 14, there will be an official API for bypassing the system mixer and setting the sample format.
 

Jimbob54

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Starting from Android 14, there will be an official API for bypassing the system mixer and setting the sample format.
I'd heard that. Be interesting to see which services use it.
 
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