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Andrew Jones MoFi Speakers

If they're still on the path of retro-cool, why not bring back the refrigerator sized towers for epic bass.

It literally takes up the same amount of space regardless of how tall the speaker is. The floor space footprint on any speaker really, is about the same, we payed for the vertical height of rooms, why not use it. :D
I have always felt the same way. I have short built-in cabinets that my speakers have to go on top of which is a unique situation. When I move to a new location I hope to go back to BA cabinets.
 
Hoffman's Iron Law
  • Bass Extension
  • Small Size
  • High Sensitivity

choose two


I made my choice(s)
Is the speaker on the right DIY or factory?
What kind of driver is that midrange unit?
TIA
 
Is the speaker on the right DIY or factory?
What kind of driver is that midrange unit?
TIA
That's a harder question to answer than you might expect. ;)
I will send you a PM, as Andrew Jones had nothing to do with any of it -- and there's nothing coaxial about it, either. ;)
 
Dear Andrew Jones, if you can see this.

In order to bring down the COST of shipping a Refrigerator sized speaker, ship it in a FLAT PACK (like tables), assembly required, as a KIT.

DO NOT do it through the hifi channel, but partner with HOME DEPOT. they already have the infrastructure to move big things, and I don't see why their giant store full of wood working stuff wouldn't be a natural fit for a DIY oriented speaker.

This also gives the community the opportunity to engage creatively, and make the experience more than here's the money, here's a speaker.

In an AJ interview, he's said he can produce a better speaker than the diy community at ANY PRICE point with exception on the Cabinet. Let's do this. Andrew Jones design, community built cabinets.

Wood side of things, it's also possible to split it half way, we can do the less complicated outer box on our own, Andrew Jones provides any complex interior shaped pieces that may need CNC routing.
 
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Dear Andrew Jones, if you can see this.

In order to bring down the COST of shipping a Refrigerator sized speaker, ship it in a FLAT PACK (like tables), assembly required, as a KIT.

DO NOT do it through the hifi channel, but partner with HOME DEPOT. they already have the infrastructure to move big things, and I don't see why their giant store full of wood working stuff wouldn't be a natural fit for a DIY oriented speaker.

This also gives the community the opportunity to engage creatively, and make the experience more than here's the money, here's a speaker.

In an AJ interview, he's said he can produce a better speaker than the diy community at ANY PRICE point with exception on the Cabinet. Let's do this. Andrew Jones design, community built cabinets.

Wood side of things, it's also possible to split it half way, we can do the less complicated outer box on our own, Andrew Jones provides any complex interior shaped pieces that may need CNC routing.
Devin Turnball is doing that with the Ojas speakers, His original kit was KD or RTA whichever you prefer to use. Ikea would be a better partner Than HD. All the KD manufacturing and worldwide distribution.
 
Dear Andrew Jones, if you can see this.

In order to bring down the COST of shipping a Refrigerator sized speaker, ship it in a FLAT PACK (like tables), assembly required, as a KIT.

DO NOT do it through the hifi channel, but partner with HOME DEPOT. they already have the infrastructure to move big things, and I don't see why their giant store full of wood working stuff wouldn't be a natural fit for a DIY oriented speaker.

This also gives the community the opportunity to engage creatively, and make the experience more than here's the money, here's a speaker.

In an AJ interview, he's said he can produce a better speaker than the diy community at ANY PRICE point with exception on the Cabinet. Let's do this. Andrew Jones design, community built cabinets.

Wood side of things, it's also possible to split it half way, we can do the less complicated outer box on our own, Andrew Jones provides any complex interior shaped pieces that may need CNC routing.
If some company shipped me a speaker unassembled, it would end its life in the fireplace. And I don't buy furniture kits from Ikea. A flat-pack refrigerator would be equally unwelcome.
-Just one man's view
 
Is the speaker on the right DIY or factory?
What kind of driver is that midrange unit?
TIA
Hasn't the original topic been bashed to death? Until some new data comes in, ranting about the price or speculating on the performance seems to have run its course.

Is that interesting speaker an Ohm speaker with a JVC ribbon on top?
 
Right then!

I'm going to "spill the beans" with some detail. Those who only want measurements can of course wait for that. But I know that some audiophiles, who become very interested in a product, appreciate reading some listener reports in detail while they twiddle their thumbs waiting for a chance to hear the speaker themselves. So...


I'm lucky to live in a city that still has a variety of actual audio shops where you can audition gear. I was able to sit down and listen for a while to the B&W 803 D4s and the Paradigm Founder speakers at two different stores (I was visiting to pick something else up). I heard the Audio Note speakers at the same place I listened to the Source Point 10s. (The Audio Notes sounded awful! Peaky, bright, woofy in the bottom! Very surprising and different from other times I've listened to AN speakers).

I was interested to hear the Source Point 10s (SP10s) because of course all the interest and hype on those speakers. Plus, while I do like slim floor standing speakers, I also like some of the older-school boxy wider baffle designs that have come back in to vogue (and that vogue is, I think, one reason Andrew Jones went that route). I'm not necessarily looking for a new speaker, but being a speaker whore, if I hear something different that I really like I might add it to my collection (and these were "cheap" enough to do so).

Source Point 10s:

The SP10s were in a dedicated room, I'm guessing maybe 12' wide by maybe 16' deep, set up on the short wall, pulled probably about 4 feet in to the room, mild toe in towards the seating position. Listening sofa was probably 9 feet or so from the speakers. Room had some sidewall treatment - absorption mostly I think, maybe some diffusion.

First impression visually: Everyone who has reviewed these is right. They look "kinda big" for stand mounted speakers in photos and videos, but in person you will let out an involuntary Keannu Reeves level "Whoah!" They are beasts. Big, blocky, imposing in a room. Not something one will sneak past the other half. This is dedicated room type stuff - like the speakers should be paying rent! The finish (walnut) was "nice" though not in to the "lux" category. As for wider baffle design speakers I really like the Devore O/96 which are even wider, but to me the SP10s, while not ugly (I kind of like the design) are more imposing visually, almost brutalist in their presence.

Before I get in to details, my main take away was: I get why people are liking these speakers. I can see how they will become quite popular. I personally found them to have a fairly attractive sound, as a place to visit, but not to live with, if you know what I mean. And a major take away - these beasts are finicky!
Which will come out when I try to describe what I heard.

I listened to various tracks - first selections by the salesman, Addelle, Tracy Champman (fast car), some jazz/pop, some Zeppelin, then some of my usual test tracks.

From a seat on the listening sofa, leaning forward a bit, I was probably around 8 feet from the speakers and the immediate impression was of a big, rich, warm sound with a slight peak in the upper mids/lower highs, and beyond that a slight lack of "air." So for instance a track with stand up bass, female vocals, acoustic guitar, sax, drums etc, the sound was very big, rich, room filling from the upper bass down, the vocals had enough body to sound somewhat natural, and atop that "dark rich bassy" sound there was a sparkle so that the acoustic guitars would pop out in a nice, vivid manner, as would higher vocal transients, drum cymbals, upper register of a sax being played hard. So that richness with sparkle was quite inviting, and I can see how many would like it. It did, as mentioned, seem more rolled off in the highest frequencies lacking that last bit of shimmer or 'air' that makes a cymbal sound like it pops out of the sound and could be in the room with you. So I describe this as being a bit on the "darker" side of neutral. So that immediate impression was that, yeah, these are unlikely to measure as neutral speakers. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are in the Klipsch category, but I did hear a sort of similar sculpting of the sound.

But here's the thing: then I leaned backwards, in to the back seat of the sofa. As I did so, the sound changed and snapped in to focus, brightening, sounding more coherent, but also losing richness. There was now a greater sense of vividness, snap and "realism" to drums, wood blocks, vocals etc. The bass warmth cleared up somewhat. This was a significantly different presentation! So I started experimenting with different listening positions - closer, further, moving side to side, standing up, moving off axis etc.

For imaging, the image shifted fairly quickly to one speaker as I moved off axis. The tonal balance shifted a bit, but less so. Standing up the sound significantly "lightened" in tone, the timbre gaining a bit more edge and vividness, also sounding a bit leaner. (I actually somewhat liked that tone when standing).
Way off axis, the speakers still sounded nice, though things really snapped in in the centre listening position.

This was interesting because most of my experience with coaxially mounted drivers is that they have been very tolerant of off axis listening. But I suppose this is because the ones I've heard most - e.g. the KEF speakers and my Thiels, had the tweeters mounted with much smaller drivers. In the case of my Thiel 2.7s (and the bigger 3.7s I owned), Thiel had gone to lengths to reduce the surrounding mid driver's influence on the tweeter - the mid driver surrounding the tweeter is actually flat (corrugated, actually). I have been constantly amazed at how smooth and regular the sound is from the Thiels, whether I'm closer or further to them, listening off axis, from just inside or outside the room, the general sound character remains very consistent. That's also true of my Joseph speakers. But, man, the SP10s really were sensitive to listener position! If I recall correctly, it is due to the much larger 10" driver surrounding the tweeter, which I think AJ has said act as something of a wave guide. If so, that would help explain what I was experiencing.

Since the SP10s really changed character with listening distance (at least in that room) I tried to find the balance of "rich/warm" but still vivid enough in the highs to not sound obviously rolled off, hence some excitement. I was probably about 9 to 10ish feet or so at this point.

One thing I found is that generally speaking I found the sound to remain somewhat "speakerly." By that I mean, while they did excellent, vivid point-source imaging, TONALLY the speakers didn't totally "disappear" as apparent sound sources - there was a sort of boxy-sounding warmth I was often aware of, with those slightly exaggerated upper mid peak sort of perched on top, that reminded me "I'm hearing the sound from a speaker." I can't say that whether this was a resonance from the speaker, or due to it's particular frequency response design, or if (and I think this might be likely) the way the bass frequencies were interacting with this particular room. This is one reason why I view this as a finicky speaker.

The SP10s did bass! Subjectively with tracks that had low bass they sounded deep and really room filling. However, in this room I felt really low bass, e.g. from some stand up bass and a pop track with low synth/guitar bass, there was a bit too much "bloom." On the other hand, a track I often play, "Missing" by Everything But The Girl, has a bass line that is tough for many speakers to get right - it's a very round sounding pulsing bass line that can sound very ill-defined
on lots of speakers. It sounded really well controlled, dead center in the soundstage not blurring, and tight on the SP10s, so I could hear the distinct articulation from the bass player. The fact the SP10 could sound impressively tight with some bass, but overwarm with other stuff, made me think there was possibly some room interactions not favoring this speaker in the lower regions. I was not able to get a perfect balance in this regard - if I was close enough so the sound filled out, giving warmth to sax, vocals etc the bass could be too rich, if I moved to far back, I found the sound brightened and leaned out more than I cared for.

How about the sense of dynamics? From what I heard, very good but not top tier. I think I may have been expecting a bit too much, for some reason I thought this speaker might combine something more like the dynamic life I hear from horn speakers. But it wasn't really. They sounded fun and engaging and relatively propulsive in how they combined "feel it in the whole room" bass response with those vivid upper frequencies. But when I listened for how things like horns, wood blocks, bongos etc sounded, they didn't have that "holy cow" sense of solidity and propulsion that makes me think "THAT sounds like a wood block being played right in front of me." (I DID get those type of impressions from, for instance, the Klipsche La Scalas my friend had, as well as some other horn based speakers I've heard). I actually think my Thiels give a better impression of a solid/dense object popping out in to the room than what I heard from the SP10s.
(And the Devore O/96 as well).

One of the things that stuck in my mind was hearing Led Zeppelin on the SP10s. Kashmir in this case. The sound was generally punchy and fairly vivid. But Kashmir as any Zep listener would know, doesn't actually have much low bass. It's a pretty lean recording in that regard, which is kind of good to see how a speaker handles this - the recording doesn't have much bass to speak of, but Bonham is bashing away on those drums so a speaker better translate that energy! The SP10s did so quite well. So, yeah, they rock.

But I also heard the same Zep track (and others) on the B&W 803 D4 speakers. And there was definitely a contrast in the presentations. I ultimately find the B&W sound a bit too sculpted for my taste, that rising top end etc. However, damn, they HAVE sort of perfected "that" sound, and while they may not have chosen a perfectly flat frequency response, they have otherwise gone to fairly heroic methods in the design of their drivers/enclosure, emphasis on dynamics etc.
And it shows. Zeppelin on the B&Ws had an utter, open peering-in-to-the-studio sense of clarity from top to bottom. Not a jot of blur or darkness, whether I was focusing on the guitar, super vivid vocals, sparkling clean cymbals, or the tight holographically placed bass and kick drums. The SP10s did not have this type of 'holy cow' sense of clarity and control from top to bottom. (I also find my Thiels better in that regard). The SP10s had a "sweeter" more laid back sound, even WITH their slight peak in the lower treble. Can I see someone preferring the sound of the the SP10s, which can be seen as a very nice combination of richness with some vividness, but not overbearing or "analytical" in the old school parlance. The SP10s were generally more relaxing to listen to than the always-on-the-edge-of-my-seat vivid sound from the B&Ws.

Still, by the end of my listening session with the SP10s I was starting to feel a little ear fatigue! It could be that my ears are in a more sensitive phase (I sometimes get ear sensitivity), but I do think I was reacting somewhat to that slightly peaky sounding response, even if not overtly "bright" sounding to my ears, over time.

So, that's about all I have on these things. It wasn't a long speaker audition. Nor nearly as extensive as the ones I do for a speaker that I seem to really like (where I will play with speaker positioning in a room, not just my listening position, to get to the bottom of things).

To sum up: I found the SP10s to be something of a chameleon depending on where I sat. Closer they sounded rich and warm in the upper bass down with a nice lower highs sparkle but with the highs seemingly rolled off above the attack of drum cymbals etc. Further back they snapped in as more vivid, exciting speakers, they disappeared more, though lost a bit of richness and sounded more "monitor like." But never seemingly fully neutral to my ears.

I can imagine that under the right circumstances I'd like these speakers more, if the set up was dialed in just so. And the flip side of how finicky they are can be that different listeners may be able to realize just the type of presentation they want - from vivid and monitor-like to bigger, richer, smoother and more "comfy" sounding with some attractive sparkle.

I am just as curious about how these will measure as everyone else!



I just read the Stereophile Review of the Mo-Fi Source Point 10 speakers. (Not yet available for free on their website - I subscribed).

Thumbs up from John Atkinson.

In a nutshell his listening impressions (and measurements) seem to comport pretty well to what I heard too. Generally smoothly balanced, but with a slight treble peak/lift that added some character, could emphasize things like sibilance, but not to the extent of the speaker sounding "bright" (unless a recording itself had emphasized highs). Possibly audible mild cabinet resonance. Precise imaging. Weighty, deep, powerful bass. Plays loud (e.g. 100 dB), sounding clean without sense of strain. Measurements show a generally even/flat on axis balance (fairly impressive actually, all things considered!), with a slight rising tendency from about 3.5K on (larger peak at 11K).

Horizontal dispersion very even to about 10K. In the article JA starts off describing the usual challenges for maintaining even/matched dispersion characteristics when mating a tweeter with a 10" woofer, and in the measurements suggests Andrew Jones did a commendable job addressing this - continuity is well maintained between the top of the woofer's passband and bottom of the tweeter's passband.
 
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Thanks Matt.

That reads a little bit like 'smiley-face' showroom appeal.
 
High efficiency speakers and adequate class A amps just might be a new (what was old is new again) direction in audio, I for one would like to see it. Fat, low efficiency, mega multi way speakers were never, IMO, the direction we should have gone, but cheap solid state watts enabled that in the past. Let's go Andrew Jones!
 
I just read the Stereophile Review of the Mo-Fi Source Point 10 speakers. (Not yet available for free on their website - I subscribed).

Thumbs up from John Atkinson.

In a nutshell his listening impressions (and measurements) seem to comport pretty well to what I heard too. Generally smoothly balanced, but with a slight treble peak/lift that added some character, could emphasize things like sibilance, but not to the extent of the speaker sounding "bright" (unless a recording itself had emphasized highs). Possibly audible mild cabinet resonance. Precise imaging. Weighty, deep, powerful bass. Plays loud (e.g. 100 dB), sounding clean without sense of strain. Measurements show a generally even/flat on axis balance (fairly impressive actually, all things considered!), with a slight rising tendency from about 3.5K on (larger peak at 11K).

Horizontal dispersion very even to about 10K. In the article JA starts off describing the usual challenges for maintaining even/matched dispersion characteristics when mating a tweeter with a 10" woofer, and in the measurements suggests Andrew Jones did a commendable job addressing this - continuity is well maintained between the top of the woofer's passband and bottom of the tweeter's passband.

Will never make "Class A" rating though, price not high enough.
 
Thanks Matt.

That reads a little bit like 'smiley-face' showroom appeal.

Show room appeal perhaps. But I personally wouldn't judge the response as "smiley-face." I'd personally reserve that for less neutral speakers than the SP10.

As I tried to convey in my listening impressions, while I did note the SP10 had a slight but noticeable rise in the highs, it definitely wasn't B&W territory.
Even with the slight rise in the highs, the SP10s had a more rich, smooth and laid back character relative to the B&Ws. The B&W speakers I referenced in comparison have a much more smiley-face sculpted sound (which is how they sounded to me, and how that model line-up measures, per Stereophile).

The SP10 measurements show a mostly flat response from bass (except for the usual JA nearfield measurement hump around 30Hz), right through the mids with a bit of a rising trend. Not jarring and definitely not, as I reported, in to Klipsch or B&W territory. (Though I think the amount of bass the SP10s can put out can raise bass issues in some rooms, which is what I think I heard on some tracks. It was a smaller room than the large room in which I heard the B&Ws).

Here's measurements for the B&W 804s:


That's how those, and the next model down sounded to me. The SP10s definitely did not sound extreme like that, nor do they measure with such a pronounced "smile." (As you'll see when that review becomes available some point).

Cheers.
 
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High efficiency speakers and adequate class A amps just might be a new (what was old is new again) direction in audio, I for one would like to see it. Fat, low efficiency, mega multi way speakers were never, IMO, the direction we should have gone, but cheap solid state watts enabled that in the past. Let's go Andrew Jones!
That's my preference :)
 
I'm guessing that these measured (at least per Stereophile techniques) about as well as some could have hoped. I doubt anyone was expecting a speaker that would do a flawless Spinorama. But if expectations were kept in check given the design, I'd guess some here interested in the SP10 might be happy enough with how the measure.

From what I could see the speakers seem to fulfill much of what Andrew Jones talked about as he has described the trade offs and goals he was seeking.

(I look foward, though, to people better placed to read the measurements than I am).
 
High efficiency speakers and adequate class A amps just might be a new (what was old is new again) direction in audio, I for one would like to see it. Fat, low efficiency, mega multi way speakers were never, IMO, the direction we should have gone, but cheap solid state watts enabled that in the past. Let's go Andrew Jones!

I forgot to mention: JA measured the SP10s as essentially hitting their sensitivity/generally highish impedance values. So not a difficult load, generally speaking.
 
Ok, time for a little disclosure-I've been listening to the SP10's at my house for the past week. In short, I agree with most of what MattHooper has said and also what he related from JA sounds right.

There is some treble lift on these speakers but it's not B&W territory. It IS enough to make higher volumes fatiguing faster than on my Linton's or Snell's, but it's at volumes you shouldn't use for that long anyway if you want to keep your hearing. On the flip side, their accuracy and dynamics on instruments like horns are a joy to listen to. The opening title of Star Wars is several minutes of sonic heaven with a couple tenths of seconds of, "ooch, that was just a little much". The silk and paper combo is one of the better implementations of these materials that I've heard in a while. Instruments, especially horns and woodwinds, are clear, seemingly accurate and correctly sonorous without going too far. Voices are clear, clean, and very accurate down to small details and neither too far forward or back.

They definitely are easy to drive. A 130 wpc home theater receiver has no trouble driving them to room-crushing volumes, but also even a Willsenton R8 at a claimed 45 wpc easily drives them louder than you could possibly want. They play loud very cleanly and seemingly effortlessly. Cranking them up is fun and very rewarding minus the eventual fatigue if you go too high. They do not play quietly very well. Both the Lintons and especially the Snell's excel at this - it's one of my favorite things about the Snells- they manage to sound dynamic and enjoyable at virtually any volume down to a whisper. The SP10's have kind of a minimum volume before all the dynamics kick in. It is low enough but it's there. I don't understand what causes this behavior and it's annoying to defend the observation because I know the SP10's, Linton's, and Snells all measure as fairly accurate over a reasonable volume range, so why and how do the Snell's manage to sound so good at low volumes? I used to think it was because they are fairly efficient but now the SP10's counter that explanation.

Back to the SP10's. Their bass has much of the "fun" and "fullness" that I enjoyed with AJ's Elac DBR62's. Bass is tight, accurate, and full, a great combination. But the extension is not what I would call full range. My old Snell's with their 8" woofers but larger cabinets go deeper by at least several Hz and are a bit fuller in that very end of the range (The Snells are also rather inaccurate in the low-mid bass, giving them a false sense of depth, one of their weaknesses that one must account for). The Lintons also play a little lower, but also a bit less smoothly or accurately, and are more easily overpowered.

Soundstage and imaging are just ok. I agree with MH's comments that the image is a bit tricky. I've played around with toe-in also and currently have them aimed just behind my head in my listening position. Yes you can pick out instruments better than the Lintons or Snells but I also know exactly where the speakers are with most pieces. They do not "disappear". By contrast I often can't tell where Dennis Murphy's BMR's are when I've listened to those. Those are dang hard to pinpoint. My Snell's also form a cohesive image fairly easily, and I've always been happy with them aimed straight into the room, but they have their rear-firing tweeters so their soundstage is somewhat more illlusory than other speakers.

Other than the slight treble rise I didn't detect any glaring highs or lows but I don't trust myself on this, I'm not a musician or trained listener and until someone else points it out to me I often misjudge small inaccuracies in a speakers level measurement. That JA found them to be fairly flat matches my impression.

As an aside, while I still dislike the Willsenton R8 amp with my Lintons and Snell's (loose+loose=sloppy), with the tighter and more accurate SP10's the Willsenton amp adds a slightly more pleasant "rounding" to content and sands off a little of that treble lift. More testing is needed here.
 
That's great you actually own the SP10s and thanks for giving your impressions.

On the flip side, their accuracy and dynamics on instruments like horns are a joy to listen to. The opening title of Star Wars is several minutes of sonic heaven with a couple tenths of seconds of, "ooch, that was just a little much".

Yes I figured the speakers could sound spectacular on that stuff. I wish I'd played some of the soundtracks I love, such as Star Wars, Star Trek, Close Encounters and others on the SP10s.
Soundstage and imaging are just ok. I agree with MH's comments that the image is a bit tricky. I've played around with toe-in also and currently have them aimed just behind my head in my listening position. Yes you can pick out instruments better than the Lintons or Snells but I also know exactly where the speakers are with most pieces. They do not "disappear". By contrast I often can't tell where Dennis Murphy's BMR's are when I've listened to those. Those are dang hard to pinpoint. My Snell's also form a cohesive image fairly easily, and I've always been happy with them aimed straight into the room, but they have their rear-firing tweeters so their soundstage is somewhat more illlusory than other speakers.

That's interesting we both have that impression. It's not that they don't image well, just that the sound didn't quite totally escape the sensation of coming from those boxes. I found they did the "disappearing" better if I listened further away (in the room I was in, the bass would get a little more lean too). One could speculate it's due to the visual cue - they are pretty big blocky speakers and they don't say "I'm gonna disappear" like some really slim floorstanders. But on the other hand, I've had plenty of far bigger speakers "disappear" more as apparent sources of the sound, from top to bottom.

I still think they could be better at this than what I heard, since it was a short audition. I suspect if you have time to play more with positioning perhaps they'll get closer to your other speakers in that respect. (?)
 
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