Andrew Jones’s new speaker brand - Jones and Cerreta

[Ktacos]

However, that quickly leads to a blanket criticism that includes cars for $80,000, houses for a million, and watches for $40,000.

Speakers are speakers though, they serve a singular purpose and that is to make noise. Housing costs depends on where you live, cars provide more than one function, 40k watches are hilariously dumb and I'll mock those as well.

According to this view, all luxury is utter nonsense

No. That's a big conclusion to jump to. I suppose that would make sense if we lived in a world where there weren't products with comparable performance for much less. It would make sense if we didn't live in a world with all the audio research we have. The reality is the information exists out there for someone to see through this product for what it really is, a box with some drivers, as most speakers are. A smart educated consumer would know they can get the same end result for a fraction of the price and yet still end up with a luxury product. Luxury and practicality can go together.

Where exactly do you draw the line?

I draw it at function with a little form added with a price that doesn't say "my wallet is much bigger than my singular brain cell". When you have companies like Neumann putting out a Kh420 for a fraction of the cost of this, thing from AJ, I have to kind of wonder if people have learned anything from ASR. If you want something to be prettier than that, you have options there as well.

Again, I think things are just too far gone for most to see this and other silly priced speakers as nonsense. I mean the whole 'dart board' pricing model does seem to work, there is no shortage of people with lots of money and little brain power to throw at anything you can convince them to buy. I mean hell 30k+ could do a lot to help people, but humans don't seem to be wired that way, were wired to get shiny box that go bam bam to replace the other shiny box that go bam bam.

I don't really buy anyones arguements over why a speaker of this price is ok, because if I made a thread about REL sub recommendations, those same people would tell me they're overpriced. Just not a very consistent opinion on the whole price thing here. Ask them why REL is overpriced and they'll tell you various valid reasons, all of which don't seem to apply to whatever speaker that person happens to like. This is probably why stuff like this only sells to older folk, younger people even if they have the money think this stuff is pretty sad.

 

[kharan]

On the topic of crossovers, I was a bit surprised that the tweeter was crossed as low as 1000hz. Seems a bit low for what I understand is a traditional dome tweeter(?), even with the large waveguide.

Man, I would love to see that concentric driver measured. If you have a midwoofer that goes does to 150 Hz and loads the tweeter sufficiently so that it goes down to 1000 Hz, that's a first for a concentric based around dome. I'm even more interested if the directivity is good. Specifically in how good of a waveguide that midwoofer is.

AJ mentioned a lower end model coming at some point, maybe it'll be a smaller and lower sensitivity model with regular magnets but the same membrane geometry that Amir can measure.

 

[kharan]

I draw it at function with a little form added with a price that doesn't say "my wallet is much bigger than my singular brain cell". When you have companies like Neumann putting out a Kh420 for a fraction of the cost of this, thing from AJ, I have to kind of wonder if people have learned anything from ASR. If you want something to be prettier than that, you have options there as well.

Genelec 8380 is $20k. It's almost reasonable as far as audiophile tax goes.

 

[Audionaut]

Speakers are speakers though, they serve a singular purpose and that...

Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to explain your point of view.
It doesn't entirely match my own perspective, but there is a lot of overlap.
Where our views don't align, I at least understand your point of view better now.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Genelec 8380 is $20k. It's almost reasonable as far as audiophile tax goes.

Is that $40k per pair?
I imagine the one with the nicely finished cabinet to make it more domestically acceptable will be still more, but amplification and DSP linearisation included (does that mean more drive unit manufacturing errors can be compensated, I would think so)

 

[IPunchCholla]

Is that $40k per pair?
I imagine the one with the nicely finished cabinet to make it more domestically acceptable will be still more, but amplification and DSP linearisation included (does that mean more drive unit manufacturing errors can be compensated, I would think so)

10k each. 20k for the pair.

 

[Timcognito]

My Audio Research CA-50 tube amp had a very revealing detailed mid range as good or better than most solid state amps of its vintage but struggled with bass. AR provided it with a SW tap but I never tried it like that and instead mothballed it for a decade. I recently gave it to my son who in his late teens decided it was cool from memories from his youth. I would love to hear it with these speakers and there are those with such collectable hardware that want to show them off. The question in my mind, is that really a market of any size or was AJ just given a commission to explore a concept he had by some well healed collectors.

 

[Frank Dernie]

10k each. 20k for the pair.

Ah yes, I was thinking of the 8381, which is available in an optional nicer finish.

I had considered Genelec 8361/W371 combination on a performance basis but it was too ugly for my music room, never mind a living room

 

[Duke]

On the topic of crossovers, I was a bit surprised that the tweeter was crossed as low as 1000hz. Seems a bit low for what I understand is a traditional dome tweeter(?), even with the large waveguide.

Agreed, that's definitely on the low side for a 28mm dome (and presumably 28 mm voice coil) even with a waveguide. My recollection is that all of the drivers have the short coil/long gap motor geometry, which arguably makes it even more problematic at first glance: The short coil would have even lower thermal mass than a long coil/short gap motor geometry. Since it's a custom unit they could make the gap long enough for adequate excursion, and presumably Andrew found solutions to the thermal challenge.

For instance, maybe the tweeter is extremely efficient (aided by the light weight of the short coil), in which case it can be "padded down" to match the other drivers and therefore would not see that much wattage. And/or maybe air movement caused by the midrange cone circulates the air somewhat and assists with cooling. On the other hand, the heat being radiated by the field coil motors themselves would impede cooling of the voice coil, I would think.

Or maybe he uses a voice coil wire whose resistance changes much less than normal with temperature. That and/or a high-tech heat-resistant glue might do the trick.

Imo there are arguments for pushing the crossover frequency down into the 1 kHz ballpark if you can get away with it. A 10" diameter waveguide will start losing pattern control well north of 1 kHz but the tradeoffs might still juggle out better from having that lower-than-normal crossover frequency, as the pattern was going to widen anyway.

 

[Ktacos]

On the topic of crossovers, I was a bit surprised that the tweeter was crossed as low as 1000hz. Seems a bit low for what I understand is a traditional dome tweeter(?), even with the large waveguide.

I think this notion kind of went out the window with ascilab stuff.

 

[kharan]

I think this notion kind of went out the window with ascilab stuff.

The question is whether you can get that with a waveguide that is also a midwoofer, and how it performs.

 

[Ktacos]

The question is whether you can get that with a waveguide that is also a midwoofer, and how it performs.

The geometry is there to do it, shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

[MattHooper]

First, I can certainly understand the personal aversion to extremely high prices in audio.
I have it myself, especially when I see the crazy prices for lots of gear at audio shows. “C’mon…”

It can seem like companies are trying to outdo each other to see who can charge the most outrageous prices for some stuff.

That said, I also try to recognize that value is a personal subjective thing, and it’s not always so easy and cut and dried to produce a critique (especially a non-hypocritical one) of what others are valuing and spending their money on. For instance, I have no problem with the price of the AJ Troubadour speaker, even though it’s beyond my means.

Speakers are speakers though, they serve a singular purpose and that is to make noise.

It’s far from that simple. I mean, you can express your own personal criteria for the type of price/performance ratio you are looking for.

But the way human beings work, all sorts of factors affect peoples experience and purchase decisions - factors that you may value less, but that doesn’t mean somebody else isn’t justified or being irrational because they are not following your personal criteria.

“The cheapest way to get a certain objective performance ” is not everybody’s prime value, an audio or anywhere else.

For instance, I could absolutely get better technical performance than my tube amps for much less money - eg a Topping solid state amp. But I happened to very much like the sound of my tube amplifiers in my system, referring them to strictly neutral solid state.
Plus, there’s additional factors that I absolutely love the aesthetics of tube amps over any solute amp I’ve seen, I love the particular looks of my amps. I enjoy the con enjoyment of conceptual and aesthetic satisfaction I get looking at the glowing tubes “ that’s the music being amplified right there in those beautiful glowing tubes!” I like the retro feel of the equipment and the connection to amplifiers have with the deep history of sound reproduction. I enjoy playing with different tubes in my amps because I think tubes are just really cool … all that kind of stuff.

A cheaper, or even an expensive, technically better solid amplifier just would not combine all those elements that I value.

So for me, the money for the tube amplifiers were totally worth it. They provided me 25 years of a high level of satisfaction.

I’d say all the same about my current speakers which I have no doubt you would think to be overpriced (and maybe you would judge me as having a bigger wallet than I have brain cells… though I certainly do not have a big wallet!)

I auditioned a sh@t load of speakers, from actives like Kii Audio to ASR-friendly Ravel and tons of other brands, and these were the speakers that I simply found most compelling. And they had just the right form factor and hit my aesthetic preferences with a bull’s-eye. And they allowed me to continue using my preferred tube amplifiers (which a Neumann would not do… not to mention, I do not like the aesthetics of pretty much any active speaker I have seen).

You say you can still get something luxurious looking or pretty for a fraction of the price… but that would be projecting your own views of what would amount to something luxurious or pretty over mine or somebody else’s. What you find luxurious looking or pretty may be a total turn off for me and visa versa.

A good example is your reaction to the MBL speakers that you find apparently a visual turn off, or as I find them to be absolutely beautiful, really cool, especially in person.


So I’m generally understanding of feeling like any number of speaker prices to be found in high-end audio to seem pretty crazy to me.

But I would also want to be careful about being too judgmental about somebody else’s choice in what speaker they buy, given they may have different goals and criteria and value certain things more than I do, and probably have a different financial situation, making the cost benefit calculations different than it would be for me.

(And if I were wealthy enough with the right size room I would probably buy some big MBL Omni speakers - a sound that I love and no, you cannot easily and cheaply replicate their particular performance along with their high-quality materials and fit and finish).

Cheers

 

[Marin]

Seen and heard at AXPONA 2026, the all-new Jones and Cerreta Troubadour speakers are Andrew Jones's mic drop | Stereophile.com

www.stereophile.com

I don't know who Roger van Bakel is but I guess he will be the one who first review this beast...
From article:
"If the $33,900 Troubadours, driven by an $8995 medium-wattage Lab 12 Integre4 tube amp, can sound this ridiculously good in a practically untreated hotel room, imagine what they could do in a decently treated listening space. I intend to find out soonest."
I guess people here have been right that Stereophile will have there filthy hands on them first

 

[Pearljam5000]

Why so low?

 

[Purité Audio]

Ah yes, I was thinking of the 8381, which is available in an optional nicer finish.

I had considered Genelec 8361/W371 combination on a performance basis but it was too ugly for my music room, never mind a living room

I heard just today that Genelec are not going to make the gloss finish, which is in my opinion rather a pity.
Keith

 

[Marin]

It unfortunately is:

View attachment 524866

Source and more: https://www.lowbeats.de/test-kompaktbox-elac-adante-as-61/

Bro I was saying about first post from Amir.
This is spinorama of the latest 3rd generation ELAC DF63 Debut 3.0 Tower speaker reviewed here

ELAC DF63 Floor standing Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests, and detailed measurements of the ELAC DF63 Debut 3.0 Tower speaker. It was kindly drop shipped and donated by a member. It costs US $649 each. The DF63 looks no worse or better than I expected which means, it is fine. :) Nothing exciting in the back other than...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Andrew is long gone from Elac,and has been working with Mofy last 2 years and now in his own company with Cereta brothers.

 

[Sokel]

Why so low? View attachment 525263

Cause if the specs are right and they can indeed handle as much, two of these will hit near 120dB/1m with 100W, that's close to big-boi territory.

 

[Marin]

Hmm I just saw that for a couple of these you can get Tidal Vimberg Mino and save 4 000 dollar's with Accuton Cell top of the line drivers

Hmm... so many choices with that kind of money....you could even go crazy and upgrade Corundum twiters for Diamond one's for 8 000 more...

Vimberg Mino loudspeaker | Stereophile.com

The priciest loudspeaker ever to have taken up residence in my listening room was the Akira from German company Tidal Audio (footnote 1), which I reviewed in the November 2018 issue of Stereophile. Designed by Tidal founder and CEO Jörn Janczak, the Akiras cost $215,000/pair!

www.stereophile.com

 

[thewas]

Bro I was saying about first post from Amir.

In your quote to Amir to which I replied to the Adante spinorama is depicted.