Andrew Jones’s new speaker brand - Jones and Cerreta

[Duke]

I assume however that you mean, he trusts his ears and perception over raw measured data. I doubt that is the case, I think he probably does obsess over measurements, but weighs the measurements differently than the ASR gold standard.

One of the choices that would need to be made in the design of the Troubadour is, where to cross over between the midrange cone and the woofers? I would guess that the midrange cone is good down to 100 Hz ballpark, and I would guess that the woofers are good up to 1 kHz ballpark. Even if the overlap is less than this, the question still remains: Where to cross over?

The higher the crossover frequency between woofers and mid, the less movement of the midrange cone, so the less modulation of the concentric tweeter's output. And the lower the crossover frequency, the wider the frequency region covered by the coaxial unit, so the greater the coherence (theoretically at least), but there may be a power handling reduction if the crossover frequency is too low. There might also be an intermediate crossover frequency region that is above the coaxial's floor-bounce notch frequency, and below the front woofer's floor-bounce notch frequency, at normal listening distances.

And regarding what is essentially a bipolar configuration for the two 12" woofers: There will be a frequency region where the significantly different path lengths to the wall behind the speakers for the two woofers results in their speaker/boundary interference response (SBIR) dips occurring at different frequencies, the one woofer partially filling in the dippage of the other and vice-versa. And then there will be a frequency where the wrap-around energy of the rear-firing woofer will reach the listening area 1/2 wavelength later than the sound of the front-firing woofer, resulting in a cancellation dip... but it would be a comb-filter effect and therefore perceptually more benign than eyeballing the measurements would predict, similar to the way the floor-bounce notch looks alarming but is perceptually fairly benign.

There are probably more competing legitimate considerations than these. Which ones matter the most, perceptually? How should they be prioritized? Well, it might not be obvious (even to Andrew Jones!) what the theoretical best crossover frequency between midrange and woofers would be.

And it just might be that the quickest and most reliable way to pick where the crossover frequency should be is to temporarily use a DSP crossover with quickly-selectable presets and listen to see which actually sounds the best.

In my opinion.

 

[amirm]

Frankly the man would be foolish to alienate these people, and perhaps measures his words accordingly.

Why isn't it foolish to alienate our audience? He may think otherwise but why do you?

FYI, I don't think the classic high-end, subjectivist crowd caters to his speakers. They are into Wilson, Magico, etc. They won't give time of day to a $34K speaker from him.

 

[amirm]

I would guess that the midrange cone is good down to 100 Hz ballpark, and I would guess that the woofers are good up to 1 kHz ballpark. Even if the overlap is less than this, the question still remains: Where to cross over?

He mentioned the crossover frequency when I was in his room but I did not write it down. I *think* he said 160 Hz.

 

[MattHooper]

Exactly. That's the whole point IMHO.

I predict it's going to set the Stereophile bingo card on fire, and their staff will wet themselves. Just watch. It's going to be a show.

cheers

Could there be an easier prediction?

Here we go…

Seen and heard at AXPONA 2026, the all-new Jones and Cerreta Troubadour speakers are Andrew Jones's mic drop | Stereophile.com

www.stereophile.com

(I could be wrong, but it sounds like maybe the Stereophile reporter was able to hear some different tracks on the Troubadours then the few AJ played in his demos…?…)

 

[Timcognito]

I think that the point that's kind of getting forgotten here is the sensitivity of 97dB which can be driven to reasonable volumes without using horns or corner placement etc. This speaker is designed for the tube amp crowd with old venerable AR's CJ's Pass and others that that might struggle to fill a room with sound especially with a large impressive looking speaker. The show may win over the go. They are for collectors with disposable income and maybe measurements are not driving their purchase decisions. No denying AJ has made some good speakers with not every design being a home run and he certainly is a good marketeer. Until some solid measurements are published it's all speculation. I believe Amir said that they sounded good.

 

[amirm]

(I could be wrong, but it sounds like maybe the Stereophile reporter was able to hear some different tracks on the Troubadours then the few AJ played in his demos…?…)

His impression, while more gushing than mine, is not too far off from what I heard: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/axpona-2026-jones-cerreta-speakers.70702/

The demos were good so if there are flaws in the speaker, they are likely not big.

 

[antisuck]

Why isn't it foolish to alienate our audience? He may think otherwise but why do you?

What I suggested was, it would be foolish to alienate the people who are already hostile toward the concept of audio science undermining their world view, or simply don't want to hear about it.

The fact that Mr. Jones makes mostly well-measuring speakers that people seem to enjoy, while not talking about measurements very often, doesn't sound alienating to me. If people want to get all upset about it I guess that's their problem.

 

[Ktacos]

Saw some post saying they're priced at like 33k lol. This hobby is kind of dumb sometimes and I really can't respect any speaker that costs that much and goes into a home. The plot has been so far lost on something like that all I see if a grotesque display of opulence and wasted resources. This one really seems like you're putting almost all your money into celebrity branding.

It seems like AJ has gained a following by mostly making speakers that are somewhat neutral which I consider to be a pretty low bar.

 

[amirm]

If people want to get all upset about it I guess that's their problem.

We are not upset. We have other choices that meet our needs. We are dismayed that someone who talks so much about technology, doesn't show measurements to confirm their merits.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Saw some post saying they're priced at like 33k lol. This hobby is kind of dumb sometimes and I really can't respect any speaker that costs that much and goes into a home. The plot has been so far lost on something like that all I see if a grotesque display of opulence and wasted resources.

About thirty years ago I was at a party and a well healed friend who had spent the equivalent of several houses on his audio gear and I were talking about Stereophile. He thought it was the gospel and I thought it was pretty silly... I mean really? An amp that cost $40K was considered a bargain?

More recently I sold off my stack of preamp, analog active crossovers, amps, DACs, etc. that I had accumulated over the decades and replaced all of that with a pair of D&D8c speakers. After selling my old gear and buying the new speakers I pocketed enough to buy a decent used car... times and situations change. What I might have once considered ridiculously expensive became an apparent bargain.

 

[amirm]

What I suggested was, it would be foolish to alienate the people who are already hostile toward the concept of audio science undermining their world view, or simply don't want to hear about it.

I think a 34k speaker that is superbly designed will appeal much more to us, than what he has now for the other camp.

 

[MattHooper]

The plot has been so far lost on something like that all I see if a grotesque display of opulence and wasted resources.

Well value in a certain sense is going to remain subjective (although it may be the case that if you look at the actual costs of manufacturing, perhaps the cost of the speaker is not out of line in terms of a viable product to sell).

Some non-audiophiles may think gear that is priced modestly to an ASR member represents overindulgence.

I try to be careful not to throw stones in glass houses when it comes to what other people value. (with the exception of when people are actually getting ripped off by things like some cables that are highly deceptive in marketing claims, and don’t actually change the sound of a system).

My own current floor standing speakers are priced around $21,000 CAD (I didn’t pay that much as I bought floor models, but they were still really expensive for me). I fully understand that I could’ve gotten as good or better performance in some respects for less money. But the size and frequency output, suited my needs exactly, I liked the sound better than any other speaker I auditioned, and I really value high levels of fit and finish, which is what these speakers also deliver.
So based on my values and criteria, they were certainly worth it. But of course other people would not make the same calculation and that’s fine.

As far as “ not respecting any speaker that cost that much going into a home” they might not be up your alley, but I doubt something like the highly proprietary MBL Radialstrahler Omni design could be produced cheaply, and in today’s prices sell for much less than 30g.
It’s one of those things that if you want that MBL Presentation, along with their high-level of fit and finish, it’s going to be an expensive proposition.

 

[tineared]

Well value in a certain sense is going to remain subjective (although it may be the case that if you look at the actual costs of manufacturing, perhaps the cost of the speaker is not out of line in terms of a viable product to sell).

Some non-audiophiles may think gear that is priced modestly to an ASR member represents overindulgence.

I try to be careful not to throw stones in glass houses when it comes to what other people value. (with the exception of when people are actually getting ripped off by things like some cables that are highly deceptive in marketing claims, and don’t actually change the sound of a system).

My own current floor standing speakers are priced around $21,000 CAD (I didn’t pay that much as I bought floor models, but they were still really expensive for me). I fully understand that I could’ve gotten as good or better performance in some respects for less money. But the size and frequency output, suited my needs exactly, I liked the sound better than any other speaker I auditioned, and I really value high levels of fit and finish, which is what these speakers also deliver.
So based on my values and criteria, they were certainly worth it. But of course other people would not make the same calculation and that’s fine.

As far as “ not respecting any speaker that cost that much going into a home” they might not be up your alley, but I doubt something like the highly proprietary MBL Radialstrahler Omni design could be produced cheaply, and in today’s prices sell for much less than 30g.
It’s one of those things that if you want that MBL Presentation, along with their high-level of fit and finish, it’s going to be an expensive proposition.

Those MBL's perform wonderfully as surrounds

 

[levimax]

Science is partly about curiosity and I am curious about the effeciency of these speakers as well as how well the field coil coaxial driver works. I would be surprized if other ASR members didn't feel the same. Just because few will buy these doesn't mean many aren't interested.

 

[Ktacos]

I try to be careful not to throw stones in glass houses when it comes to what other people value.

Nah I will gladly throw boulders. Society is just messed up and a portion has normalized spending something like 30k on a hifi home speaker. Not to mention the mark up on these things is massive.

It’s one of those things that if you want that MBL Presentation, along with their high-level of fit and finish, it’s going to be an expensive proposition.

Thank god I have taste, so that's not a problem I'm going to run into.

 

[MattHooper]

LOL. “I love the smell of cynicism in the morning…”.

Also, society hasn’t normalized spending 30K on a speaker. Most people don’t care enough about audio gear to even imagine spending that amount . Some audiophiles can afford such speakers, so there’s a market.


(do you think your own spending would survive a critical moral inventory by someone who might feel more virtuous? I hope you don’t own anything more than a $10 digital watch! Anything else is not required to know the time and would be excessive…etc)

Nah I will gladly throw boulders. Society is just messed up and a portion has normalized spending something like 30k on a hifi home speaker. Not to mention the mark up on these things is massive.

How do you know that?

Taking the expenses of R&D, production, the specific technologies involved , and everything else it takes to run a successful business in terms of breaking, even or making any profit , how do you know the mark up is out of line?

 

[MarkS]

Why isn't it foolish to alienate our audience? He may think otherwise but why do you?

Because few of us at ASR are going to pony up $34K for some 2.0 speakers. We know that kind of money is much better spent on multichannel, professional room treatment, and DSP.

FYI, I don't think the classic high-end, subjectivist crowd caters to his speakers. They are into Wilson, Magico, etc. They won't give time of day to a $34K speaker from him.

Eh, I dunno. The subjectivist crowd loves a guru to fawn over. David Wilson is dead, Magico doesn't have one.

 

[Mr. Widget]

The subjectivist crowd loves a guru to fawn over. David Wilson is dead, Magico doesn't have one.

Don't tell that to Alon Wolf.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Science is partly about curiosity and I am curious about the effeciency of these speakers as well as how well the field coil coaxial driver works. I would be surprized if other ASR members didn't feel the same. Just because few will buy these doesn't mean many aren't interested.

In the Stereophile interview posted somewhere here, Mr. Jones discussed the magnet design and how he was able to mange the interaction of the fields of the HF and MF drivers' interaction using a field coil. It is interesting.

 

[MarkS]

Don't tell that to Alon Wolf.

Try searching for "Alon Wolf" on Stereophile. He is very far from guru status.