Andrew Jones’s new speaker brand - Jones and Cerreta

[amirm]

It’s beautifully produced content - Jana is amazing -

You do know she doesn't come with the speakers, yes?



While the info is very good, it is a one sided story. No one is reacting and asking hard questions.

 

[amirm]

That thing is 160 pounds for a stand mount????

 

[Mr. Widget]

You do know she doesn't come with the speakers, yes?

 

[Mr. Widget]

The big question is whether this reveals material difference or implementation diligence...?

Talking with the design engineers at JBL, there are real theoretical benefits to using beryllium, however the cost of the material and care required in handling it make it less appealing than coaxing better performance from a lesser material.

 

[tineared]

Did you expect measurements? After all, AJ's comes from a day and age where specs have been the standard.

Is only just recently that some vendors have supplied any measurements after all. Many still do not.

I would have been utterly shocked if there were measurements I hope one finds its way to Amir or Erin.
This speaker is certainly getting lots of attention. I'm all for it since I like speakers with larger drivers and what's not to like about efficiency?

 

[Power Pop 23]

That thing is 160 pounds for a stand mount????

The 'stand' appears to add 4 inches to the overall height

Enough clearance for a robot vacuum cleaner.

 

[mhardy6647]

That thing is 160 pounds for a stand mount????

"I think we're gonna need a bigger stand."

 

[PGansz]

Having watched the videos, the fit and finish appear to be spectacular. This is an impressive speaker. I wonder though - impedance listing is 5ohms / for SET amps and a lot of tubes they will likely have some impedance output issues.

 

[levimax]

What I find fascinating is that this speaker’s low frequency response is essentially the same as my skinny little 36” high Joseph Audio Perspective2 speakers - a 2.5 way design with two 5.5” long throw woofers and a single port.

If you normalize to 5 ohms he is claiming 93 dB per watt at one meter efficiency. This is quite high and extension vs efficiency is a trade off that has to be made. If his efficiency spec is right these will play loud with low powered tube amps without horns which is actually quite an achievement but you also can ask why would you want to do that?

 

[mhardy6647]

Having watched the videos, the fit and finish appear to be spectacular. This is an impressive speaker. I wonder though - impedance listing is 5ohms / for SET amps and a lot of tubes they will likely have some impedance output issues.

Modern SETs* often have 4 ohm taps on their OPTs. Especially the cheap(er) ones.
Real SET-friendly loudspeakers are 16 ohms, though.
__________________
* not as ridiculous as it sounds. OK... it is as ridiculous as it sounds.

 

[MattHooper]

Having watched the videos, the fit and finish appear to be spectacular.

The fit and finish does look quite good in the video. And I have to say the speakers I should look quite good in the particular room setting as well. IMO.

If you normalize to 5 ohms he is claiming 93 dB per watt at one meter efficiency. This is quite high and extension vs efficiency is a trade off that has to be made. If his efficiency spec is right these will play loud with low powered tube amps without horns which is actually quite an achievement but you also can ask why would you want to do that?

Yes… is it all about loudness though?

I don’t listen loud so I’m often maxing out around a 75 DB average. Sometimes even down to 70 DB.

So my speaker and amplifier combination does that just fine, therefore I’m sort of wondering what beyond mere “ goes louder” I would hear in the presentation of the AJ Speaker.

I’ve noticed that my JA speakers need a little bit of volume to sort of “ wake up” dynamically. I mostly notice this because
I’m just coming out of a long bout of tinnitus that kept me from listening to my system and I’m just getting myself slow slowly used to doing it again, playing the music really softly virtually background levels to start with. So starting between 37 and 42DB. And I’ve been inching up more to average is 45DB.

When I goose the volume up louder closer to 50 DB or a bit over I start to notice “ yes that’s what these speakers sound like” in terms of some of the dynamics coming back.
But I don’t know how much of that is the speakers needing the volume in order to come alive, or how much is simply low volume perception that is affecting my perception (Fletcher Munson curve etc. I seem to remember our hearing becomes linear somewhere between 80 and 85DB)

 

[HelgeH]

The fit and finish does look quite good in the video. And I have to say the speakers I should look quite good in the particular room setting as well. IMO.



Yes… is it all about loudness though?

I don’t listen loud so I’m often maxing out around a 75 DB average. Sometimes even down to 70 DB.

So my speaker and amplifier combination does that just fine, therefore I’m sort of wondering what beyond mere “ goes louder” I would hear in the presentation of the AJ Speaker.

I’ve noticed that my JA speakers need a little bit of volume to sort of “ wake up” dynamically. I mostly notice this because
I’m just coming out of a long bout of tinnitus that kept me from listening to my system and I’m just getting myself slow slowly used to doing it again, playing the music really softly virtually background levels to start with. So starting between 37 and 42DB. And I’ve been inching up more to average is 45DB.

When I goose the volume up louder closer to 50 DB or a bit over I start to notice “ yes that’s what these speakers sound like” in terms of some of the dynamics coming back.
But I don’t know how much of that is the speakers needing the volume in order to come alive, or how much is simply low volume perception that is affecting my perception (Fletcher Munson curve etc. I seem to remember our hearing becomes linear somewhere between 80 and 85DB)

I respect Andrew Jones, and have after 40 years in the hifi busieness, fully joy of his Mofi 8 speakers with modified crossover, (better crossover parts, dampening of the tweeter collar and a zobel impedance correction in the upper midrange). This new construction plays very well, I am curtian, but is cracy over priced.

 

[Sal1950]

What I find fascinating is that this speaker’s low frequency response is essentially the same as my skinny little 36” high Joseph Audio Perspective2 speakers - a 2.5 way design with two 5.5” long throw woofers and a single port.

Versus the much larger cabinet and woofers on the AJ TROUBADOUR speakers.

We would have to see distortion measurements of the bottom end at X spl.
That's where the dif might be revealed.

That thing is 160 pounds for a stand mount????

Isn't that all the rage today? I don't get it myself, you could do a tower with the same footprint and more cabinet volume for the vented woofers?
Imagine it getting tipped over by one grandkid on another.

 

[Mnyb]

The fr response is given without any error bars +-x dB ? Is the 34Hz -3dB or -6dB or ”in room” .

How is nominal impedance defined here ? What’s the minimum ? A curve would be nice .
Kudos to AJ and friends that this is not to fudged everything is an 8 ohm speaker nowadays regardless of how it looks.

Re Be tweeters I actually thinks it makes more sense in compression drivers than dome tweeters, kef makes excellent domes just with geometry and aluminium. You get the breakup resonance >30k anyway.

And this has a soft dome ? Catering to a crowd that thinks hard metal domes sounds bad . I to in my less informed days did prefer soft domes. But it was probably just bad crossover design and bad directive management in many speakers when harder domes got popular, and some brands wanted to show off their new shiny toys and had a lifted response. Material is immaterial implementation is the key.

AJ seems to be an excellent gun for hire .

He makes the speaker you want him to do , give the man a design brief and he delivers.
The TAD designs his done is when it seems to be when sota performance with almost no budget was in the specs
He’s also a good pr figure and brand ambassador.
As a good engineer he can deliver what the customer wants on time and one budget. The key is to give the right quality in time .
ELAC probably got exactly what they asked for within their budget and design brief.

 

[Mr. Widget]

AJ seems to be an excellent gun for hire .

He makes the speaker you want him to do , give the man a design brief and he delivers.
The TAD designs his done is when it seems to be when sota performance with almost no budget was in the specs
He’s also a good pr figure and brand ambassador.
As a good engineer he can deliver what the customer wants on time and one budget. The key is to give the right quality in time .
ELAC probably got exactly what they asked for within their budget and design brief.

100%

...and presumably since he is putting his name on this one, he actually wanted to follow this path. I see absolutely nothing wrong in that.

 

[Mnyb]

Yes everyone seems to forgot that it's a business , not a glorious quest of building the best speakers in the world every time you start a new project

So that a freelancer actually commits to fulfill the clients specification is not a mystery , its how you work .
I think some here is bit harsh on the man ( AJ ) for doing his job properly.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Did Berrylium really measure "better"? Seems pretty clear the material differences in speakers do noit make a huge difference. But reveals there's always some bias going around in the audio world for all of us.

Well berillium as a material has better specific stiffness than any other metal other than Boron, which is even more difficult for manufacture.

That gives it a major advantage to produce pistonic behaviour up to a higher frequency in a given shape.
However the size and shape of the dome or cone also influences the frequency and mode of the first breakup.
A well designed anodised aluminium dome can also have its first breakup mode outside audibility too.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Focal Beryllium tweeters sounded different than most other tweeters.
How much of it is the material I don't know.
But I do believe you can hear some difference becaue of the material used.

As long as the dome is acting without breakup in the audible range there is no mechanism by which there could be a difference due to the material.

OTOH the dispersion of the Focal inverted dome is different to a typical dome and that may well/ probably will sound different.

The reality is most tweeters do have breakup in the audible range due to the specific stiffness of the material not being high enough to avoid it, but by no means all, and that almost certainly effects their sound.
With a damped fabric dome we can be listening to low Q resonance over lots of the frequency range.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What I find fascinating is that this speaker’s low frequency response is essentially the same as my skinny little 36” high Joseph Audio Perspective2 speakers - a 2.5 way design with two 5.5” long throw woofers and a single port.

I would have thought it obvious that the loudness achievable over the frequency range will be much greater with bigger more efficient drivers. Whether you need that is a different thing.
Possibly with less distortion too?

 

[Keith_W]

Re: beryllium, the difference is due to factors such as stiffness, weight, energy dissipation, resonance characteristics, transient response, harmonics, and nonlinearities. You can read about some of the differences here. I also seem to recall that @smowry posted a chart comparing how different materials affect tweeter characteristics. I can't find it at the moment.