Andrew Jones’s new speaker brand - Jones and Cerreta

[Duke]

I like this concept too. But if I understood the video correctly and remember correctly, you can only plug a maximum of two ports (one at the bottom and one at the top), as the ports are also needed to ventilate heat out of the cabinet due to the field coil.

Ah, thanks. I didn't watch the video; for some reason videos posted on this site are "unavailable" for me, and I haven't figured out what the problem is.

If the ports are in a square or rectangular-shaped pattern with two above and two below the woofer, I would plug two on a diagonal. This would present a more symmetrical airload to the back of the woofer's cone (therefore less likely to induce cone rocking) and would still leave one port high and one port low for some chimney-effect cooling.

 

[Chromatischism]

For a speaker with 86 dB/W/m, you must use 10 times more power than for a speaker with 96 dB/W/m. This quickly puts the difference between 100 and 1000 watts into perspective, especially when you factor in some headroom.

This can't be a realistic example, because it does not take 1000 watts to produce 96 dB from any of the speakers Amir or Erin have tested.

 

[Audionaut]

This can't be a realistic example, because it does not not 1000 watts to produce 96 dB from any of the speakers Amir or Erin have tested.

To achieve the same sound pressure level, the 86 dB/w/m speaker requires 10 times more power than the 96 dB/w/m speaker.

PS
So you need only 10 Watt with the 86 dB/w/m speaker to reach 96 db

 

[Sokel]

This can't be a realistic example, because it does not not 1000 watts to produce 96 dB from any of the speakers Amir or Erin have tested.

I believe that the example was to only show the 1:10 ratio, which makes sense.

A 10W to 100W figure is more realistic about 96dB.
But I suspect that the thread's speaker can go way higher than this clean and that's where figures skyrocket sometimes.

Genelec does not use 6kW amps per speaker just for the show for the high SPL models (which is the main price discriminator, SPL does not come cheap )

 

[Audionaut]

A 10W to 100W figure is more realistic about 96dB.

No, I already mentioned the correct ratio above.
You need only 10 Watt with the 86 dB/w/m speaker to reach 96 db
In this example, 100 to 1000 watts looks like this > A 96 dB/W/m speaker produces approximately 116 dB at 100 watts (at a distance of 1 m, under ideal conditions).
This is a theoretical value based on linear power conversion. In practice, the actual output will often be slightly lower because many speakers experience compression and distortion.

Therefore, to reach 116 dB, the 86 dB speaker would need to be powered by 1000 watts.
In practice, however, most speakers with an efficiency of 86 dB would already be destroyed at this power level, and the voice coils would be burned out.
The only speakers with such poor efficiency that I can think of off the top of my head that were actually able to convert this power into sound pressure were the large JBLs from the Everest series, whose midrange and treble levels were turned down very low in order to bring the bass up to the same level and thus linearize the frequency respons.

 

[Mnyb]

It's a bit of a exaggeration to assume 10dB of marginal for DSP it literally makes everything 10 times worse

 

[sigbergaudio]

Ah, thanks. I didn't watch the video; for some reason videos posted on this site are "unavailable" for me, and I haven't figured out what the problem is.

If the ports are in a square or rectangular-shaped pattern with two above and two below the woofer, I would plug two on a diagonal. This would present a more symmetrical airload to the back of the woofer's cone (therefore less likely to induce cone rocking) and would still leave one port high and one port low for some chimney-effect cooling.

You will find it if you locate the user @janaloveshifi on YouTube. I suspect you will find it worth watching.

 

[Audionaut]

It's a bit of a exaggeration to assume 10dB of marginal for DSP it literally makes everything 10 times worse

Yes, every now and then it’s quite useful to remind ourselves of these dynamics. DSP and PEQ are extremely useful when they help guide suitable drivers along a natural path.
In my opinion, they’re harmful when they try to reproduce something that’s only possible within very narrow limits. That can sometimes feel like an unpleasant distortion of the speaker’s natural sound.

 

[Chromatischism]

To achieve the same sound pressure level, the 86 dB/w/m speaker requires 10 times more power than the 96 dB/w/m speaker.

PS
So you need only 10 Watt with the 86 dB/w/m speaker to reach 96 db

I believe that the example was to only show the 1:10 ratio, which makes sense.

A 10W to 100W figure is more realistic about 96dB.

Yes, that is more realistic. However, that circles back to the initial argument: power is cheap and providing 100W is easy, so there is no need for uber high sensitivity.

 

[Marin]

. In particular, the SET stuff measures very poorly.

Is any measured here on ASR?

 

[Richard G]

The measurement crowd likely isn't looking to spend that much on speakers.

is a correlation between purchasing based on measurements and not spending much a known thing??

Amir certainly doesn’t fit your hypothesis

 

[Richard G]

Eyeballing the cabinet, that's about 150 liters?
Combined with two 12" drivers+ports, 30Hz F3 is totally doable.

He gets an f3 of iirc 32 Hz with the Mofi 888’s using a pair of eight inch drivers, with a pair of ports both tuned to close to 30 Hz

 

[Richard G]

Of course it is.

When he worked for Elac and released new models every three months without any prototypes... or listening to the damn thing...
I remember a witch hunt was launched against poor Amirm, who first reported the problem, by paid self-proclaimed YouTube reviewers.
It was a resonance that sang so much that it could be heard on any material, since it was located in the vocal area and where all the important instruments were.

It was about making a small, 2 x 2 inch sealed chamber without damping for an aluminum concentric midrange speaker.
Since the air had nowhere to go or disperse, it returned through the opening between the midrange and tweeter and produced resonance with all sorts of harmonics of the same.


View attachment 522691View attachment 522692View attachment 522693View attachment 522694View attachment 522695
View attachment 522696It's unfortunate that the designer never admitted the flaw in his speaker, despite whistling like crazy, and neither did Elac, so many people ended up being scammed and robbed of their hard-earned money.
That's where Andrew showed me who he really works for...

There are spots on apples in most bunches.

 

[Richard G]

"Troubadour" does not bring positive connotations...

Does for me

 

[DaaDaa]

is a correlation between purchasing based on measurements and not spending much a known thing??

Amir certainly doesn’t fit your hypothesis

Yes there is most people that go by measurement tend to not choose to spend more on something that measures the same or worse so when speakers are available at $2k that measure the same or better than $10k then there is a strong correlation to not choose the 10k option in my experience.

 

[Richard G]

Jones is nostalgic

Eh? Ive watched several of his talk videos and he’s never given that impression

If this new video was shot in his house I wouldn’t call that interior “nostalgic”

 

[Richard G]

I was referencing a certain company which has already used this as a model in their lineup

Not exactly competing in the same market. Or decade

 

[Richard G]

Mir gefällt so etwas viel besser.

What are they? BMS? 18Sound …

 

[Richard G]

My guess is that this speaker has a very flat impedance curve

Very likely … The crossover he did for the Mofi SourcePoint 888 incorporated a zoebel to smooth the impedance curve to allow it to work better with tube amplifiers.

 

[Richard G]

the craze for high efficiency speakers

Craze? If there is a craze it isn’t exactly dominating the market!