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And Amir locks another thread because he cannot entertain any other opinion than his own....

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sergeauckland said:
What upsets me is that very valued contributors like John are clearly unhappy,
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You know - there is a big problem. If Amir has not enough knowledge in specific cases and uses wrong test method (I would name noise of MM preamps with the cartridge, for one), he is NEVER willing to admit that. This is supposed to be a technical forum at high engineering level. The facts and evidence, as well as deep knowledge is needed. However, subjective opinion wins. The fact that Amir is the owner of the forum does not mean he is always right, in technical, engineering points. No one is. Some of us know better something, the others something else. The field is too wide to be covered by a single person.
 
I can see a lot of issues are rising to the surface. I would say I can see where people are coming from (and people are coming from a lot of different places, clearly). I would also say that this is a common and regular occurrence in online communities, seen it since the 1990s, over and over again.

These things can be productive, if that's the attitude people take. But that also takes a willingness to listen, and consider that those who disagree may have some valid points.

They can also be destructive. With long time members leaving, and resentments lingering for those who stay, only to crop up in the future.

The key to the difference is whether or not people focus on the past, or focus on making sure the future does not replicate the past and leads to a better community. One leads to a better outcome, but takes actual work and self reflection. The other just takes anger and attacks.

Other than this post, I don't expect to fall on either side of that divide in my actions. My hopes are for better in the future. My expectations? Mixed outcome, messy human stuff, because humans.
 
In my daily life, I have to swallow my tongue constantly, because of who I work for and who I hang around with. It frankly doesn't bother me all that much--I'd rather continue to do the work that I do and be friends with the people in my life. Just because their own views can't be contained doesn't mean I can't contain mine.

Yes, it does get old that I feel as though I'm always the person in my life who has to take that extra step, but when I push back I'm putting myself ahead of my friends and that's an ethical stance I don't want to take. These days, I treat the expression of opinions with which I disagree a fictional TV show--interesting and maybe even engaging but nothing requiring an emotional commitment. Let them give themselves a heart attack.

This is Amir's site, and if he wants a thread that acts like his personal blog that is his right. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't matter, and frankly it doesn't matter to me, because I didn't come here for Amir's (or anyone else's) opinions on those topics. That said, I the only reason I even went back to look at that thread is because of this thread. I had filtered that thread solely based on its descriptive title--not because I thought I would disagree but rather because it's not why I'm here and I see it as derailing my enjoyment of this forum.

I've been involved in online communities for decades--going back to Usenet newsgroups in the 90's. I have never, ever, ever participated in any forum in which I agree with even a majority of the other participants about politics (and that majority shifted based on which part of politics had bubbled up). Yet I have made friends in a variety of communities--friends who don't even know my politics but who are still good friends. I think my willing decision to not only avoid those topics but also to willingly decide not to be offended when they appear anyway has served me well in reduced stress about things I can't control and built a broad pool of friends with whom I can have enjoyable topic-specific conversations. I commend this approach.

I get that this affects people deeply. Given who I work for, all that has been going on has a more direct and potentially ruinous effect on me than most here will ever know. But I guess I've gained some perspective in my old age.

Rick "who learned the hard way that passionately debating tribal loyalties means getting voted off the island" Denney
 
I think the main problem is that when political actors systematically attack science, engage in disinformation and propagate an alternative reality, it is already a “political” statement to be in favor of science.
Unfortunately, even talking about scientific findings in this climate has become highly “political”.

I therefore understand that there is hardly any area in which one can be truly apolitical today.

I recommend bird photography as a hobby though, i have been much happier since starting that.
 
DJBonoBobo said:
I think the main problem is that when political actors systematically attack science, engage in disinformation and propagate an alternative reality, it is already a “political” statement to be in favor of science.
Unfortunately, even talking about scientific findings in this climate has become highly “political”.

I therefore understand that there is hardly any area in which one can be truly apolitical today.

I recommend bird photography as a hobby though, i have been much happier since starting that.
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Very much agreed. During the past 4 years science has been under attack - specifically biology and economics. Standing up for facts can be difficult, when one is constantly being attacked by the other side.
Bird photography sounds nice. I’ll recommend gardening as a hobby:)
 
DJBonoBobo said:
I think the main problem is that when political actors systematically attack science, engage in disinformation and propagate an alternative reality, it is already a “political” statement to be in favor of science.
Unfortunately, even talking about scientific findings in this climate has become highly “political”.

I therefore understand that there is hardly any area in which one can be truly apolitical today.

I recommend bird photography as a hobby though, i have been much happier since starting that.
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Very sage.
 
Mr Swing King said:
^But he surely knows about politics right? He is after all quoting all the liberal media’s talking points (without questioning them)…and the liberal media cannot possibly be wrong.
No two sides to every story here. Nope. It is way too complicated to actually question things or indeed ponder why it is that certain media outlets say what they say.
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maybe you do not believe me now, but at the end of the day a liberal democracy is the only system you want to live in.

bad translation from German:
"do nothing, that you do not want done to you"
 
ASR is a community, though we may not know each other face to face, we know interests and audio expertise. I enjoy all the suggestions of music, movie sound, and the like. I enjoy the technical expertise. Restoration expertise is a valuable contribution to the community.

I and many colleagues have studied the evolution of Internet culture. Many were there from the beginning - a friend of mine was on the design team for the first Internet router. Other friends were commissioned by Intel executives to study Internet culture and privacy. I studied it in the context of mobile. I know many people who have studied addictive design and dark patterns and read their papers.

My contribution is what I term online "write once." That means people are primarily motivated by writing and re-reading what the write despite the value to the community.

Arguing over contentious topics destroys community. Is individual ego, or the dopamine hit of write once, more important than community?

One of my favorite science fiction films is The Forbidden Planet. In that film - which had the first electronic soundtrack - the problem is "monsters from the id." ASR can easily be destroyed by monsters from the ego.

I'm fine with the ASR politics rules. On many large platforms there is not even a system to question the moderators. Try questioning moderation on Facebook properties. When I run into a disagreement with moderation on a platform or forum, I just quit. I'm a professional expert in democracy and can make my way around law, so I could post all day and write papers on politics and democracy. ASR is not where I would do it.
 
I'm quite happy with Amir's closed "blog" thread, it's his site and he's expressing his opinion. I can chose to read it or not.

I'm also happy when he or other moderator(s) close threads that start on one Audio Science subject (e.g. speaker placement) and wander into politics or religion. That should always be stopped.

I'm not American and I don't live in America. We are lucky here that the judiciary is quite apolitical, so silliness by governments is constrained.

What I find frustrating is that trade deficits are so poorly understood. America is the greatest consumer society in the world and the average American has more to spend than anyone else in the world. A poor Albanian can't afford an American preamplifier made with expensive American labor. But because the Albanian is paid a relative pittance, they can make a preamplifier which appears very affordable to an American who is a member of the greatest consumer society on earth so able to buy it. That's what drives the differential.
 
I have lots of opinions, even more opinions than bodily orifices. In audio my personal listening preferences are subjective. I'm also very interested in what measurements show. The funny thing is that generally the best bang for the buck gear happens to suit my subjective preferences. As far as politics or other contentious subjects are concerned, I think that this is an audio forum. I've been involved with online interaction since BBSs, IRC, and USENET. I can't count the flame wars I've seen. Like everyone else, I've been trolled. I don't mind if off topic threads get moderated. I have plenty of other places where I can express my opinions. I have plenty that annoy others.
 
original:

Was Du nicht willst, daß man Dir tu´, daß füg´auch keinem ander´n zu.

maybe on CNN the new´s are biased to a liberal, humanitarian view- fact: they do not tell you lies.

Fox news- fact: they do tell you lies. to top it, they do it in way that proofs the infinity of stupidity right.
 
Mr Swing King said:
So true. If the butt of the joke is Trump or conservatives somehow the posts seem to stay.
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I cannot disagree with this statement more. The "Humor" thread, which I usually greatly enjoy, has always tolerated misogynistic, anti-gay, anti-moderately liberal, and wildly pro-gun postings and any reporting of the worst of them had regularly been knocked back and knocked back harshly. WSJ and CNBC, not known as bastions of liberal thought are both solidly against the wildly fluctuating tariff nonsense. And our host has on his blog on tariffs posted from many sources, not just "left-wing" ones.
 
Ken1951 said:
I cannot disagree with this statement more. The "Humor" thread, which I usually greatly enjoy, has always tolerated misogynistic, anti-gay, anti-moderately liberal, and wildly pro-gun postings and any reporting of the worst of them had regularly been knocked back and knocked back harshly. WSJ and CNBC, not known as bastions of liberal thought are both solidly against the wildly fluctuating tariff nonsense. And our host has on his blog on tariffs posted from many sources, not just "left-wing" ones.
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Both WSJ and CNBC are obviously left leaning. I’m not sure how you could come to any other conclusion - especially considering the last 4 or 5 years.
I haven’t followed the humour thread too closely though, so maybe you’re right on that:)
 
It seems like making a mountain out of a molehill.
I enjoy Restorer John's comments on audio. I stay away from other hot topics.
I'm sitting by my front door, waiting for my el cheapo KEF Q150 speakers. I'm so bored I watched a YouTube video of a Russian guy taking a power saw to the speaker cabinet to show how poor the construction is.
I take the wisdom of the recently departed musician, Michael Hurley...
My old lady says, "Gimme that wine."
I said, "Honey, quit drinking sometime."
She said, "Snock, it's not my fault!
Had to eat my porkchop without no salt."
She run up the hill, she cried and cried
I run down the other side


Have a great weekend, ASR members...
 
waofner said:
bad translation from German:
"do nothing, that you do not want done to you"
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The USA "Bill and Ted" movies were surprisingly profound in that regard.
Be-Excellent-to-Each-Other-2668779885.gif
 
GD Fan said:
All the family drama around here recently reminds me of a joke I once heard about faculty politics on university campuses - the tensions are so high because the stakes are so low.
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That is an actual quote attributed to Henry Kissinger. In academia you have a lot of very smart people, like ASR! Let's use our smarts for audio good!
 
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