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Ancient Loudspeakers

Curvature

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Below is the FR of a Rice-Kellogg speaker as taken from https://www.medienstimmen.de/chroni...trodynamischer-lautsprecher-mit-konusmembran/

Does anyone happen to know what the units on the Y axis are? Watts? I tried looking in vain for the original German publication: Jahrbuch des Forschungs-Instituts der Allgemeinen Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft. Erster Band. 1928-1929, Berlin 1930.

This graph might be from before the decibel was accepted.

1752339147557.png
 
Below is the FR of a Rice-Kellogg speaker as taken from https://www.medienstimmen.de/chroni...trodynamischer-lautsprecher-mit-konusmembran/

Does anyone happen to know what the units on the Y axis are? Watts? I tried looking in vain for the original German publication: Jahrbuch des Forschungs-Instituts der Allgemeinen Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft. Erster Band. 1928-1929, Berlin 1930.

This graph might be from before the decibel was accepted.

View attachment 462869
Pascals?
If so, that's pretty loud!
1 Pa = 94 dB
10 Pa = 114 dB
 
@MAB You were right. I found another pressure measurement of the Rice-Kellogg speaker from that era which was in pascals. I converted both to dB SPL and they lined up fairly well.

This turned into a good excuse to explore the FR of speakers from a century ago. I'm limited to on-axis measurements, since this is all that's available outside of a few cases. Sources are at the end.

First, take a modern speaker. I'll use it throughout for comparison

Genelec S360A, released in 2018. Exceptionally flat on-axis. 250mm (10") direct radiator woofer and 25mm (1") tweeter.

1.png


Next is the earliest measurement I could find. A 1921 measurement of what is assumed to be a common balanced armature moving iron speaker. These drivers were typically used in radios and telephones. I have no details about this speaker's construction. Back then, the diaphragms could be unloaded when used in headphones, or loaded using horns, cylinders or discs in various forms.

2.png


From the same source, a 1922 improved version of the above. Surprisingly flat, when considering what frequency response looks like in most cases. The improvements, measurement technique, circumstances and accuracy are unknown.

3.png


Now 1923.

4.png


1924. Increased bandwidth, but the response seems to be almost entirely composed of resonances.

5.png


Now 1925. All of these measurements, by the way, come from a JP Minton in an addendum to the article in which Rice and & Kellogg introduced their speaker and covered the existing speaker technologies of the time.

Below is a picture of the Rice-Kellogg direct radiating ("hornless", as the article calls it) speaker, whose advantages are clear in the following chart. The second trace is from article that started this thread. They line up well enough. It's unclear what causes the deviations.

1752510786268.png


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What's really interesting is that the addendum also has comments by Kellogg, responding to Minton, which include a polar plot!

1752512256311.png


A few years later, the Schlenker speaker was introduced 1928. This is an unusual 757mm (29.8") direct radiating speaker. The motor is deliberately mounted off-center to reduce breakup. The diaphragm is a stretched metal alloy called duralumin. I'm really impressed.

9.png


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The 1920s Western Electric 15-A horn driven by a 555 receiver. This speaker is so well-known that certain boutique manufacturers are still making versions of it today. https://www.resistormag.com/features/western-electric-horn-systems-time-travel-with-tim-gurney/

1752512970306.png


8.png


Work by Kolbrek and Dunker produced contour plots (polar maps) of the WE 15-A horn.

plot.webp


For comparison, the Genelec S360A plots:
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Genelec S360/ASR/asr/SPL Horizontal Contour.html
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Genelec S360/ASR/asr/SPL Vertical Contour.html

Sources
  1. 1921-1925 FR measurements. Rice, Chester W and Kellogg, Edward W. Notes on the development of a new type of hornless loud speaker. Journal of the American Institute of Electrical Engineers. Vol. 44, No. 9. New York September 1925.
  2. 1928-29 FR measurement of Rice-Kellogg speaker. Jahrbuch des Forschungs-Instituts der Allgemeinen Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft. Erster Band. 1928-1929, Berlin 1930.
  3. 1929 measurement of the Schlenker speaker. Wilson, P and Webb GW. Modern Gramophones and Electrical Reproducers. Cassell & Co. London 1929. Found in Kolbrek, Bjorn and Dunker, Thomas. High Quality Horn Loudspeaker Systems: History, Theory and Design. Kolbrek Elektroakustikk. 2019.
  4. Measurements of the WE 15-A. Kolbrek, Bjorn and Dunker, Thomas. High Quality Horn Loudspeaker Systems: History, Theory and Design. Kolbrek Elektroakustikk. 2019.
 
This turned into a good excuse to explore the FR of speakers from a century ago. I'm limited to on-axis measurements, since this is all that's available outside of a few cases. Sources are at the end.
Great presentation of ancient data, very kool. thanks !
 
In 1920 A.G.Webster wrote about horn speakers in Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci., Volume 6.

Then in 1924 the team C.R. Hanna and J. Slepian wrote "The Foundation and Design of Horns For Loudspeakers" in the journal JAIEE, Volume 23 (Feb. 2024).

In 1926 Gramaphone magazine had P. Wilson's analysis of horn speakers.

Come 1927 loudspeakers combining a moving coil with motorized electrical amplification favored horn loading and horns were no longer merely acoustical designs.

In 1927 A.G. Webb wrote "Modern Gramaphone and Electrical Reproducer".

Also in 1927 P.G.A.H. Voight (U.K.) wrote a technical analysis of the horn speaker. Both Voight and Klipsch (U.S.A.) were horn designers. Klipsch promoted corner placement introducing the bi-furcated bass horn. Elsewhere in 1927 P..B. Flander obtained horn speaker Patent number 245,425.

Other early influential designers were J. Enoch (made horn loaded loudspeakers), Lowther (adapted Voight's high flux motor unit into speakers), N. Mordaunt (led to Tannoy enclosures "Autograph" and "GRF"). And J. Rodgers who invented a horn loaded middle frequency ribbon loudspeaker.

Historically the horn speaker was surpassed by loudspeaker designs of smaller size affording conveniently cheaper manufacturing using baffle designs and bass reflex. This change set the scene for wider practicality "speakers" in addition to loudspeakers and in terms of a time-line got started around the time of World War 2.

The journal Acoustical Society of America in it's April 1972 edition published the contributor team Wilson's "Horn Theory and The Phonograph".
 
Do you know how it helps with breakup? I'm scratching my head on this one. :)

Perhaps the varying distance from the voice coil to the edge of the cone results in breakup behavior being spread out over a broader frequency range, but not being as severe at any one frequency as it would otherwise be.
 
Do you know how it helps with breakup? I'm scratching my head on this one. :)

Thanks
Breakup happens at high frequencies when the cone fails to track the coil movement.

Ideally, the movement would be pistonic, all at once forward and back. In breakup, the cone flexes and becomes multiple resonating surfaces. With the motor in the center, the resonances are correlated, leading to pronounced dips and peaks, as seen in the Rice-Kellogg speaker response. Their paper suggests they were aware of this problem.

Modal behaviour can be described by reciprocity and homogeneity. In other words, the locations of resonances are related and consistent, and, just like in rooms, they can be calculated independently of excitation.

Screenshot_20250714_201007_Chrome.jpg


By putting the motor to one side, the modal resonances are redistributed and, to some extent, decorrelated, which leads to a smoother response, relatively speaking.

With real drivers, things are way more complex and chaotic, of course. Plus there is directivity to consider.
 
Historically the horn speaker was surpassed by loudspeaker designs of smaller size affording conveniently cheaper manufacturing using baffle designs and bass reflex. This change set the scene for wider practicality "speakers" in addition to loudspeakers and in terms of a time-line got started around the time of World War 2.
Do you have any examples of the kinds of speakers you have in mind?

When was the bass reflex speaker introduced?
 
Do you have any examples of the kinds of speakers you have in mind?

When was the bass reflex speaker introduced?
I found this Loudspeaker History at AES:
"Albert L. Thuras filed patent No. 1,869,178 on Aug. 15, 1930, granted July 26, 1932, for the bass-reflex principle while working at Bell Labs."
 
Thanks OP and Duke.

Good to learn something new every day.

Regards
 
In 1920 A.G.Webster wrote about horn speakers in Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci., Volume 6.

Then in 1924 the team C.R. Hanna and J. Slepian wrote "The Foundation and Design of Horns For Loudspeakers" in the journal JAIEE, Volume 23 (Feb. 2024).

In 1926 Gramaphone magazine had P. Wilson's analysis of horn speakers.

Come 1927 loudspeakers combining a moving coil with motorized electrical amplification favored horn loading and horns were no longer merely acoustical designs.

In 1927 A.G. Webb wrote "Modern Gramaphone and Electrical Reproducer".

Also in 1927 P.G.A.H. Voight (U.K.) wrote a technical analysis of the horn speaker. Both Voight and Klipsch (U.S.A.) were horn designers. Klipsch promoted corner placement introducing the bi-furcated bass horn. Elsewhere in 1927 P..B. Flander obtained horn speaker Patent number 245,425.

Other early influential designers were J. Enoch (made horn loaded loudspeakers), Lowther (adapted Voight's high flux motor unit into speakers), N. Mordaunt (led to Tannoy enclosures "Autograph" and "GRF"). And J. Rodgers who invented a horn loaded middle frequency ribbon loudspeaker.

Historically the horn speaker was surpassed by loudspeaker designs of smaller size affording conveniently cheaper manufacturing using baffle designs and bass reflex. This change set the scene for wider practicality "speakers" in addition to loudspeakers and in terms of a time-line got started around the time of World War 2.

The journal Acoustical Society of America in it's April 1972 edition published the contributor team Wilson's "Horn Theory and The Phonograph".
I've examined each of these entries and it's clear this post was generated using AI. Don't misuse these tools. There are errors in dates, names and references.
 
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I've examined each of these entries and it's clear this post was generated using AI. Don't misuse these tools. There are errors in dates, names and references.
Definitely not AI generated. You are absolutely wrong. My presentation is a synopsis, which is how I like for bloggers to get to the point and not throw out lazy long links to wade through.

My comment is from my notes on an introduction to a published technical article about horn speakers from 1974 which predates AI. That you have not verified the information I found on-line reflects some deficit in your search parameters.

Here are screen shots of what I cited. In print are the dates, names and references which you erroneously criticized. QUOTE:

IMG_3290.jpeg



IMG_3294.jpeg



IMG_3292.jpeg



IMG_3291.jpeg
 
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Definitely not AI generated. You are absolutely wrong.

My comment is from my notes on an introduction to a published technical article about horn speakers which predates AI. That you have not found on-line, including dates, what I did reflects on some deficit in your search parameters.

Right now I'm busy and if you ask me to then I'll make an effort to find screen shots of that free full text available on-line. I'm on a tablet and haven't it in a file or bookmarked the source.
My apologies. But your cryptic responses combined with the errors below suggested that you did not do the research yourself. I've seen AI produce this kind of output before.

I ask that you not share notes without verifying the material first.

In 1920 A.G.Webster wrote about horn speakers in Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci., Volume 6.
1919.
Then in 1924 the team C.R. Hanna and J. Slepian wrote "The Foundation and Design of Horns For Loudspeakers" in the journal JAIEE, Volume 23 (Feb. 2024).
"The Function and Design of Horns for Loudspeakers". Republished in 1977 https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/journal/?elib=3348 and 2009 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5060995
In 1927 A.G. Webb wrote "Modern Gramaphone and Electrical Reproducer".
P Wilson & GW Webb, "Modern Gramophones and Electrical Reproducers". 1929

Mixing up AG Webster with GW Webb.
Also in 1927 P.G.A.H. Voight (U.K.) wrote a technical analysis of the horn speaker.
Not an analysis. A patent. "Improvement in Horns for Acoustic Instruments".
1927 P..B. Flander obtained horn speaker Patent number 245,425.
PB Flanders. 245,415.

The journal Acoustical Society of America in it's April 1972 edition published the contributor team Wilson's "Horn Theory and The Phonograph".
July 1972. https://pubs.aip.org/asa/jasa/article/52/1A_Supplement/139/642559/Horn-Theory-and-the-Phonograph This is a publication of the meeting notes, not the paper. The April date refers to when the meeting took place, and perhaps not even this session, but the one after it.
 
My comment is from my notes on an introduction to a published technical article about horn speakers from 1974
Dinsdale, J. "Horn Loudspeaker Design". Wireless World. March 1974.

Thanks for the reference.
 
My apologies. But your cryptic responses combined with the errors below suggested that you did not do the research yourself. I've seen AI produce this kind of output before.

I ask that you not share notes without verifying the material first.


1919.

"The Function and Design of Horns for Loudspeakers". Republished in 1977 https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/journal/?elib=3348 and 2009 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5060995

P Wilson & GW Webb, "Modern Gramophones and Electrical Reproducers". 1929

Mixing up AG Webster with GW Webb.

Not an analysis. A patent. "Improvement in Horns for Acoustic Instruments".

PB Flanders. 245,415.


July 1972. https://pubs.aip.org/asa/jasa/article/52/1A_Supplement/139/642559/Horn-Theory-and-the-Phonograph This is a publication of the meeting notes, not the paper. The April date refers to when the meeting took place, and perhaps not even this meeting, but the session after it

This is a blog and not a peer reviewed scientific publication whose entries are first submitted to editors. You can "ask" whatever comes into your mind and nobody has to obey.

I'm on a tablet and it's inconvenient to try following what you are contesting. It seems you are nit-picking my 1974 source's information.

For any readers here again is my synoptic post from 2 days ago for easier comparison to earlier today's screen shots of my own source's 2 written paragraphs along with my source's own numbered referenced sources.

QUOTE (my text) =

IMG_3297.jpeg
 
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