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An experiment in cognitive dissonance.

Scrufboy

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Accepting a challenge from a Reddit user.

Q:
Why, if this photo only shows components on display and does not show implementation or application of said components, are people freaking out and lambasting me on the DIY Audio Reddit about electrical safety? Claiming I'm being cavalier, foolish and that I'm going to kill someone. What is wrong with these folks?

About 15 days ago I posted the current state of my DROK 48v 10a Supply to use with my Aiyima A07.

I finished the cables and the beta version of my enclosure setup and posted my progress.

Incidentally, I run this enclosure open and the system has active cooling using 140mm Noctua fans. The second version will have sockets and venting both on the top and bottom.

This setup shown is currently in use. The AC cable is mounted/attached to the structure the enclosure is in. There are 3 mounts bolted directly to the steel frame. This C table is also against a wall with other furniture in front. There is absolutely no access to the cabling unless the furniture is moved. All the cabling is securely mounted.

So... What is wrong with the people on that Reddit?

If the image I posted is only a display of the components and the photo does not and cannot indicate implementation or application... Why are they acting so insane? Even to the point of daring me to come here, post, and see what people think here.

So... Challenge accepted.

I'm not seeking validation or approval.
I'm just confused by the people who engaged with me. Well, maybe a little validation... I simply fail to see what all the alarmism was about.

Be well gang...



20220119_134904.jpg
 

Doodski

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First of all I like the box it is very well made and the cables look very nice too especially that nice 3 wire grounded cable. A lot of thought went into this I think. The switching power supply will have protection circuitry built in so it should not fry and go up in a ball of smoke and flames like some gear does if it smokes. I have seen some electronics and electrical gear mounted in wood cabinets and that apparently passed safety so this might too. I would not run this nice wood cabinet but that's not to say it's a fire hazard but it could be. But then there are many cabinets made of plastic and again those passed a safety I would expect. Not 100% sure what to make of this other than liking the eye candy and workmanship.
 

DVDdoug

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Is there a clear plastic cover over the screw terminals? ...I think I'm seeing a reflection and if there is a cover it should be electrically-safe. If not it would probably be a good idea to screw the box closed so it can't be opened "casually", especially if there are any children around.

Since there is a fan it probably does need more ventilation.

I use some "similar" power supplies as part of test/burn-in fixtures at work and I insulated the AC terminals with hot glue. There is no additional enclosure. It's probably not exactly "legal" but it's safe. My power supplies don't have a fan. The covers more perforated and they run cool.
 

tomtoo

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As long you not close the wooden case all looks good. So for me ventilation looks bad if you realy made that think to close it. Problem could be that it accidently get closed.
In germany we have that saying the devil is a squirrel. So it should be secured against closing,
 
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Scrufboy

Scrufboy

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Is there a clear plastic cover over the screw terminals? ...I think I'm seeing a reflection and if there is a cover it should be electrically-safe. If not it would probably be a good idea to screw the box closed so it can't be opened "casually", especially if there are any children around.

Since there is a fan it probably does need more ventilation.

I use some "similar" power supplies as part of test/burn-in fixtures at work and I insulated the AC terminals with hot glue. There is no additional enclosure. It's probably not exactly "legal" but it's safe. My power supplies don't have a fan. The covers more perforated and they run cool.
Yes... There is a snap down plastic cover over the terminals. Interesting idea on the hot glue. Seems like a perfect solution for this application.
 

sergeauckland

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One thing would concern me is the apparent lack of cable grips to stop the cable being pulled out of the terminals if the cable is pulled hard. There may be some, but I can't tell from the picture. Ventilation is another, if the lid is closed whilst operating.

Otherwise, looks very nice.

S.
 
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Scrufboy

Scrufboy

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As long you not close the wooden case all looks good. So for me ventilation looks bad if you realy made that think to close it.
Yeah, I only close this when not in use. I will add vents to this.

Second wood case has 3, 2 inch vents. One on the top. 2 on the bottom. It also has sockets for the connections.
 

DonR

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Looks vastly superior to a lot of the ChiFi equipment that has a superficial look of quality but open it up and ... "oh my".
 

tomtoo

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Yeah, I only close this when not in use. I will add vents to this.

Second wood case has 3, 2 inch vents. One on the top. 2 on the bottom. It also has sockets for the connections.

If its vented enough i see not the problem. But it has to be vented. Better a hole more than less.
 
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Scrufboy

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I sincerely wish that people would read the post thoroughly.

The cable cannot be pulled as it has been mounted in 3 locations to the steel frame this enclosure is attached to. It is literally bolted down. After the bolts - The cable lays in a 2 inch space behind shelving. Nobody is walking around in a 2 inch space.

Does this photo show you the components to be used or does it show how they are used? This is the distinction.

Where does your concern come from?


The post also addresses ventilation.

Your reply reveals that you did not read my post thoroughly.

This is my concern. This is probably what the Reddit users were doing too.
One thing would concern me is the apparent lack of cable grips to stop the cable being pulled out of the terminals if the cable is pulled hard. There may be some, but I can't tell from the picture. Ventilation is another, if the lid is closed whilst operating.

Otherwise, looks very nice.

S.
 
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JayGilb

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I personally would modify the PSU by mounting a normally closed momentary switch that disconnects the mains if the lid is closed.
 

sergeauckland

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I sincerely wish that people would read the post thoroughly.

The cable cannot be pulled as it has been mounted in 3 locations to the steel frame this enclosure is attached to. It is literally bolted down. After the bolts - The cable lays in a 2 inch space behind shelving. Nobody is walking around in a 2 inch space.

Does this photo show you the components to be used or does it show how they are used? This is the distinction.

Where does your concern come from?


The post also addresses ventilation.

Your reply reveals that you did not read my post thoroughly.

This is my concern. This is probably what the Reddit users were doing too.
I have read it, but I still can't see the clamps. Normally, the cable is clamped over the outer insulation NOT the individual wires, hence my concern. Also, where the box is located is of no interest as it could be put anywhere else at another time. Having a box that can be closed whilst operating is inherently unsafe. I always think worse-case.

S.
 

tomtoo

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One think is the PE has to be a littel longer than the N, and L1. So ca 1/2 inch. But hard to see if you have done this?

Input cable should also get holdet from the case. Like @Serge said.

See you asked, you get answers.
 

DJBonoBobo

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I sincerely wish that people would read the post thoroughly.

The cable cannot be pulled as it has been mounted in 3 locations to the steel frame this enclosure is attached to. It is literally bolted down. After the bolts - The cable lays in a 2 inch space behind shelving. Nobody is walking around in a 2 inch space.

Does this photo show you the components to be used or does it show how they are used? This is the distinction.

Where does your concern come from?


The post also addresses ventilation.

Your reply reveals that you did not read my post thoroughly.

This is my concern. This is probably what the Reddit users were doing too.
Maybe that's the lesson you're learning: if you post something that can be easily misunderstood, that's going to happen and build momentum. And asked the other way around: Why do you post a picture if it can only be understood if the text is read very carefully? What kind of feedback were you hoping for?

To me the picture doesn't look like "components", it looks like an opened device with cables sticking out. I can't help it, even when I read the text. Pictures have a stronger effect than words.
 

gene_stl

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Also as we are experiencing here, there are a lot of trolls out there on the internet. Your build looks very nice. If you use a three wire grounded AC cable you have covered many of the bases.

"Don't let it hang by the cables.";)
 
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threni

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The medium is the message. You could have had us guess where you received feedback suggesting things which were explained in the text, and the majority of people would have correctly stated Reddit immediately.
 

Joe Smith

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Lovely build but yeah I would be worried about the lid closing and resulting fire hazard. Some way to cut some long ventilation slits in the top lid?
 
OP
Scrufboy

Scrufboy

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I personally would modify the PSU by mounting a normally closed momentary switch that disconnects the mains if the lid is closed.
That, sounds interesting, I like it...

But - If I'm using a different box. One that is purposely well ventilated and has sockets for AC in and DC out. Is a switch necessary? The idea is to have the power supply be safe in a closed enclosure. Proper venting ensures this. The permanent enclosure will have 2 large vents on the bottom and 1or 2 on the top. The vents will have the pictured items used as the vent covers.

The current box has a locking arm that once engaged the lids stays securely open. This is not where the box can be knocked about or bumped into.

The unit is also not ever left on and unattended either. When I am done using my laptop it all gets shut down. The amplifiers, the DAC and the power supplies are all shutdown at the AC source. Either by voice commands, my phone apps or a physical switch. It can also be programmed to shut down after hours in case I fall asleep.

Please Remember, this post is about cognitive dissonance and whether the OP picture shows items simply on display or does it convey usage.

The post is about how people react to the image and whether or not their concerns, fears, assumptions or advice is warranted. Or are they simply projections.

If I address all possible concerns within the text of my post and people do not read that text and then offer advice on something the text addresses and informs on. This informs me more about you, than it informs you about me. Invariably we see choice in play. The choice to read and be informed versus the choice to not read and attempt to inform.

I chose to inform... People either choose to be informed or not.

Sadly we see that some, not all who engage with this post aren't actually reading this post thoroughly.

Your reply, although welcome and well intended, shows that you haven't read the post in its entirety and have not clearly understood the implementation, the application or the extra details that inform.

Some of you are reading it, some of you aren't

I am actively monitoring that ratio.

So far, what I've learned is that even if my original Reddit post clearly outlined my implementation and application of the items on display... There would still be several people who would not read the post thoroughly and would stop to comment when they found something to comment on. Negating their own ability to have all the necessary information required in order to make a relevant comment.

Here you offer advice about a switch. One can assume that you are addressing a "what if" situation and it seems to offer a "what to do" to avoid the "if"

That's projection...

This leans toward you not having information about the second/final box. Information that is available but somehow missed, overlooked or ignored.

So I'll ask... If a different box that was well ventilated was used and it was on display, would you still offer the idea/advice of a switch to shit off the supply if the lid was closed?

Or does venting as described, satisfy your concern?

If it does... Then you not having the information is the result of a choice you made. The info was freely given in the OP.

If the venting as described does not satisfy your concerns, I would be happy to hear/know what the basis of your concern is.

I'm not a fan of removing and spiking an amp with power with a switch like that...
 

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sergeauckland

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If a different box that was well ventilated was used and it was on display, would you still offer the idea/advice of a switch to shit off the supply if the lid was closed?
No, if the box had adequate ventilation AND cable grips or a mains input socket as described, then I would have no further objections.

S
 
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Scrufboy

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Right... But again. Does this simple picture in the OP show items on display or does it also convey their usage, implementation and application?

I submit it does not do anything but show items. Period.

Again, please understand the experiment This picture cannot and does not convey anything about implementation or application.

The text however does. But not if you choose to ignore it, skim it or misunderstood it.

So for those not reading... And therefore choosing to not be informed...

Are they then projecting onto the situation their fears and concerns?

Electrical safety is paramount, so I'm not saying the concerns aren't valid. Of course they are, but are they warranted? That's a separate thing altogether.

What I am saying... If you didn't read the post and only looked at the picture and then commented...

What does it say about you? If one ignores the posted facts... Then it leads them to be ignorant of those posted facts. And please, for those who read this, remember to define the word ignorance properly as to say "without knowledge". This, so we can avoid people stupidly choosing to be offended after they themselves apply an incorrect definition to that word.

So I must ask... Do you get all of your information from pictures or do you read? Do you make your decisions solely from pictures? Do you judge books by their covers?

If you express a concern based off a picture and you haven't read to see if the accompanying text addresses and/or satisfies that concern, what does this say about you?

Because it doesn't say anything about me.

It's an honest question and this isn't a fight.

Please remember, this post is about cognitive dissonance and whether the OP picture shows items simply on display or does it convey usage.

The post is about how people react to the image and whether or not their concerns, fears, assumptions or advice is warranted. Or are they simply projections. They key word is warranted.

The people of Reddit did not have text up front. Reddit is somewhat restricted in how you approach original postings. But the people of Reddit did have my subsequent explanations, where I addressed their concerns. Even then, this did not work. It was all pitchforks and torches!

Consider this though... If you think I am guilty of something.. And you issue a complaint. Your complaint basically is you not wanting what you suspect as true - to be true. That's what a complaint is.

So if I then prove to you that I am not actually guilty of the expressed complaint... What should the logical response be?

The logical response should be you, being glad and relieved that I'm not actually guilty.

But what I am seeing on Reddit and somewhat here... Is that even if I meet your concerns, address and satisfy them. There are a certain few, continue to treat me like I have done something horrible. They seemingly still need me to be guilty? That's literally insane.

Consider this -

If this was in reverse... And you posted that pic with the necessary informative accompanying text, and I stupidly chose to not read that text or ask any questions and then I said - "Hey, you didn't secure that AC line!", "Your being stupid!" "You need to do this", "You need to do that!", "You could kill someone!"

Or even if I calmly posted the same concerns without all that angst and anger...

Would any of that be justified? No it wouldn't

If you then tell me that you did do all those things, and I could have known this If I just read the post. Shouldn't I then be humbled...feel a little silly, maybe ashamed? Shouldn't I then admit that I could have read the post and apologized for not doing so?

Shouldn't I be glad that you are doing things correctly. This is to be expected. From all of us. No?

Well, This time I chose to put all the needed information up front and questions of course could have still been asked.

Yet still... People often act like fools, ignoring the intel and demanding that the picture informs them of something that it clearly cannot.

I would totally understand if I showed these items off in actual use and they where haphazardly implemented... Cables put in foot traffic, cables not bolted to things, the box closed, etc.

But I didn't post that kind of picture did I? So in reality - If you choose to be honest - you can't possibly know if my usage is safe or unsafe until you read about it or ask about it. Right?

Some here are asking questions... Others are offering speculative opinions and advice after avoiding the provided text and refusing to be properly informed.

- Is that on me or them?

Remember, I'm not here asking anyone for advice on how to use the items in the picture. Rest assured, I do know what I'm doing and every safety precaution is being put in place that is needed. I promise.

Obviously though, at one point in life I didn't know about any of this stuff. But I moved from that position of ignorance toward knowledge by paying attention, studying, having some training in the military, reading and asking questions.

So again friends... This post was an experiment. I am not asking for any advice on how to use the items on display.

I'm auditing the responses and the responders to see whether or not they bother to read and be informed or do they avoid that, and just offer advice without being informed.

The results are kind of sad.

Question - If I show you a picture of a car engine I am working on... And I show off a component I've added to the build. Would you go mental and get upset, telling me that the engine needs to be properly mounted in a car, all the pipes, hoses and cables need to be hooked up and that I was doing something wrong? I wonder!

This is the experiment.

The pic in the OP is only showing items on display. It is not informing you and CANNOT inform you of the intended usage or the actual usage.

You either have to read the accompanying text or choose not to.

Every person in this thread who is offering advice about something that was already covered in the text is doing a huge disservice to themselves, me and everyone else who chooses not to read.

You can clearly see within the replies, those people who have bothered to read the accompanying text and those who have not.

Please don't misunderstand though.
All of the concerns are valid. But if they are already addressed and satisfied. Then that should be the end of it.

You will see though...

If I tell one of you that certain criteria has been met in a reply... The next Joe who refuses to read the OP text will also not read that reply and then the cycle repeats... That's how this escalates and gets blown out of proportion. Reddit is rife with this bad habit.

So honestly, getting uptight or nervous about what a picture shows and what it doesn't show just isn't smart.

I do appreciate the feedback. I hope you appreciate what the experiment reveals about you, and people in general.

I am sure that you all encounter those folks who post comments without having paid attention. They skim and scour and respond to the first bit they see where they can advise(offer their two cents). They often show us that they don't bother reading everything that is posted and they take things out of context and get all kinds of bent out of shape. And for what?

And mind you, that's with actual posts that you can read and be informed on.

Now imagine how annoying it is for some, when this same stupid practice is applied to a picture.

Imagine if you posted a picture of yourself kissing the top of your daughter's head.. And some jackass projected onto that some Pedophile crap and then others followed suit. Would you enjoy that?

You would argue that the picture doesn't inform. Now imagine if all the text was there and you had completely outlined the context of the photo.. And all of that was ignored. What if someone denounced you and spread this false information across social media, effectively doxxing you? What if a whole bunch of stupids latched on to one person's stupidity and they ran with it and no matter what you did or said, you couldn't stop them?

We'll that's what people do when they don't read the text.

Remember this phrase? "Don't judge a book by its cover" Well then kindly tell me why it is acceptable to judge a situation or scenario by a picture?

Especially a picture like mine - that CANNOT INFORM YOU on implementation or application.


We should strive to be better and not do this to each other.

My experiment is basically over.

Perhaps in a day or so... This post can be removed and we can all walk away a bit wiser.

Be well friends.... All of your concerns are valid - however mostly unwarranted.

The picture simply cannot tell you how I am using the items in the picture. It's just that simple.

If you think otherwise... You have bigger problems to deal with.

I'm out... Peace!



I have read it, but I still can't see the clamps. Normally, the cable is clamped over the outer insulation NOT the individual wires, hence my concern. Also, where the box is located is of no interest as it could be put anywhere else at another time. Having a box that can be closed whilst operating is inherently unsafe. I always think worse-case.

S.
 
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