An anxious audiophile

[flipflop]

Any thoughts on placement? There is not alot of room, but a few possible locations.

Trial and error.

Your main objective is to find a position that doesn't introduce any nulls at the listening position. Another thing to look out for is deep dips that aren't nulls, as they will eat up headroom when corrected.
Peaks are more audibly objectionable than dips, but also easier to deal with.

 

[BDWoody]

Any thoughts on placement? There is not alot of room, but a few possible locations.

Have you heard of the 'Sub Crawl?'

Old school, but pretty good for a quick and dirty place to start. It will at least keep you from putting it where you have a natural deep null or boost.

Put the Sub in your LP (on the chair or couch), then crawl around to the different placement options to choose the most pleasing sound.

 

[DMill]

Subcrawl as mentioned and remember you can use wireless transmitters if that is a concern. In my room the best place for the sub was not anywhere I could run a cable to without drilling holes in the floor.

 

[antcollinet]

UK Based? Have a look at the BK electronics range of Subs. Well built, sound good (to me at least) and reasonably priced as buying direct from the manufacturer.

B.K. Electronics Homepage

 

[RayDunzl]

Buy a 40 year old glider.

All your anxieties about sound will be forgotten as you immerse in the new endeavor.

Soon some new anxieties will surface you can mull whether you really want a Jonker JS-3 or a LAK-17B or a Diana 2 (with sidestick like an airbus).

 

[tonapo]

Having just done a small bit of reading, I could probably fit a SVS 3000 micro in the room, and probably the KEF KC62 too.

UK Based? Have a look at the BK electronics range of Subs. Well built, sound good (to me at least) and reasonably priced as buying direct from the manufacturer.

B.K. Electronics Homepage

Thanks, I will have a look.

Have you heard of the 'Sub Crawl?'

Old school, but pretty good for a quick and dirty place to start. It will at least keep you from putting it where you have a natural deep null or boost.

Put the Sub in your LP (on the chair or couch), then crawl around to the different placement options to choose the most pleasing sound.

I have heard of it, and tried with my AV sub (a Monitor Audio Bronze), but I don't think the sub could go as low as the speakers so the effect was negligable - although user error a possibility!

Subcrawl as mentioned and remember you can use wireless transmitters if that is a concern. In my room the best place for the sub was not anywhere I could run a cable to without drilling holes in the floor.

Thanks, I saw a module for the Kef KC62.

Buy a 40 year old glider.

All your anxieties about sound will be forgotten as you immerse in the new endeavor.

Soon some new anxieties will surface you can mull whether you really want a Jonker JS-3 or a LAK-17B or a Diana 2 (with sidestick like an airbus).

This is amazing! Another thing I could worry about!

 

[JSmith]

Have you heard of the 'Sub Crawl?'

Have you ever tried a sub crawl after a pub crawl? ... not recommended I must say.


JSmith

 

[Vacceo]

Having just done a small bit of reading, I could probably fit a SVS 3000 micro in the room, and probably the KEF KC62 too.


Thanks, I will have a look.


I have heard of it, and tried with my AV sub (a Monitor Audio Bronze), but I don't think the sub could go as low as the speakers so the effect was negligable - although user error a possibility!


Thanks, I saw a module for the Kef KC62.


This is amazing! Another thing I could worry about!

I have a KC62. I use it in a 10 square meters room (relatively small) for mixed use: tv (as a soundbar along with a pair of LS50 wireless II) and music/radio listening.

It works very well on a small space, but do not expect walls rattling.

For a larger room, you can try the KS92 if you need more decibels. Functionality wise, they work the same.

 

[Cote Dazur]

So, any thoughts on how to improve the system?

Without having a look at your listening space and how everything is set up, impossible to say.

 

[Axo1989]

View attachment 213594

And here is a picture to give you a better idea.

Looks like a nice place to sit and listen to music, especially in winter.

And you could tuck in one of those small subs if you were motivated. Try modelling the basic room geometry in REW Room Sim to get an idea of good locations. I found that useful even for placing my main speakers (and in-room results correlated to the model sufficiently). You may find under a table or chair works, so consider anything really.

 

[tonapo]

Looks like a nice place to sit and listen to music, especially in winter.

And you could tuck in one of those small subs if you were motivated. Try modelling the basic room geometry in REW Room Sim to get an idea of good locations. I found that useful even for placing my main speakers (and in-room results correlated to the model sufficiently). You may find under a table or chair works, so consider anything really.

Thank you. In my mind I am preparing to dive back into REW and I will have a look at the REW Room Sim, although I have not used that aspect previously.

Without having a look at your listening space and how everything is set up, impossible to say.

Agreed. I have put a picture, and a diagram on the second page of the thread.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Agreed. I have put a picture, and a diagram on the second page of the thread.

Thank you, now it begins to be easier to try to help.
Your challenge is not with your gear, you have already more and better than you probably need, at the very least you are set.
Your challenge is your space and managing expectation.
You seem to be committed as an audiophile, is there any other space in your home that you can dedicate to listening to music? If this is it, can you dedicate this room to your hobby, meaning what ever in there is not there because it is needed to listen can go?
If not, then enjoy what you have, invest in good recordings and forget about miracles.

 

[TLEDDY]

I am an anxious audiophile. I am always wondering about how I can improve my system or if I have made good choices with the kit I have already purchased. Although I do enjoy that aspect of the hobby, all the tinkering.

Previously to finding this site, I would generally use subjective reviews of equipment, I would then try any interesting kit in the shop, and then, if possible, at home. However now there is a third aspect, the measurements. This is great, however I am not sure about all my kit, as I have only seen manufacturer measurements for some of it which makes me unsure about whether I could do better.

My current system

Server - Roon on a intel NUC i5 – music files predominantly FLAC served up via ethernet (and qobuz subscription)
Streamer – Raspberry pi 4 running ropieee, stock psu
DAC – Topping D90, stock psu – USB input. Sharp filter. XLR out (Mogami 2534 with neutric connector cable).
Amplifier – Musical Fidelity M6si, balanced input. Belden 5T00UP Speaker Cable 10AWG
Speakers – Kef Reference 1.
Room correction – www.homeaudiofidelity.com – filters loaded into Roon.

So, any thoughts on how to improve the system? I have been wondering about class d amps, so I have been reading the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET review with interest.

Thanks for reading and for any comments.

Damn fine system! Cannot do much better…

 

[tonapo]

Thank you, now it begins to be easier to try to help.
Your challenge is not with your gear, you have already more and better than you probably need, at the very least you are set.
Your challenge is your space and managing expectation.
You seem to be committed as an audiophile, is there any other space in your home that you can dedicate to listening to music? If this is it, can you dedicate this room to your hobby, meaning what ever in there is not there because it is needed to listen can go?
If not, then enjoy what you have, invest in good recordings and forget about miracles.

This is the closest thing I have to a dedicated room. Previously I was trying to have my 5.1 and 2.1 systems integrated in a different room and there were too many trade offs so decided to move my stereo to the room you see. Its still not dedicated, my desk is in the corner to the right and its a thoroughfare from the front to the back of the house, but I can shut the doors, primarily in the evening. I could probably do some subtle room treatment, although I need to measure first.

Damn fine system! Cannot do much better…

Thank you very much!

 

[Cote Dazur]

This is the closest thing I have to a dedicated room

At least you have that, if I was you, from my experience, I would clear, even if it is temporary, anything not needed. That would leave room to try different seating and speaker position, as what is see now seems more dictated by space available than by sound. it will be a compromise, but probably a better compromise.

I could probably do some subtle room treatment, although I need to measure first.

yes, once the absolute best position in the room is found, experimenting with room acoustic will probably yield substantial improvement. the less 'subtle" the better but at the same time sometime little things have big impact. Listening in low lightning is usually more pleasant anyway.

but I can shut the doors

For sound only, it is always better to have doors wide open, particularly in smaller room, like yours, think of it as a bass trap, the bass acts a lot like a liquid, it will escape to the other space, reducing issues in the listening room. But if closing the door is to prevent sound to be too loud in the rest of the house, then it might not be a solution.

because you have access to a quasi dedicated room, I totally believe from what I see that you can get much better music in your space with minimum, to no cash outlay optimizing speaker and seat placement, be bold, do not shy away from setting very close to your speakers and away from boundaries, it is worth a (free) try, happy hunting.

 

[tonapo]

At least you have that, if I was you, from my experience, I would clear, even if it is temporary, anything not needed. That would leave room to try different seating and speaker position, as what is see now seems more dictated by space available than by sound. it will be a compromise, but probably a better compromise.

yes, once the absolute best position in the room is found, experimenting with room acoustic will probably yield substantial improvement. the less 'subtle" the better but at the same time sometime little things have big impact. Listening in low lightning is usually more pleasant anyway.



For sound only, it is always better to have doors wide open, particularly in smaller room, like yours, think of it as a bass trap, the bass acts a lot like a liquid, it will escape to the other space, reducing issues in the listening room. But if closing the door is to prevent sound to be too loud in the rest of the house, then it might not be a solution.

because you have access to a quasi dedicated room, I totally believe from what I see that you can get much better music in your space with minimum, to no cash outlay optimizing speaker and seat placement, be bold, do not shy away from setting very close to your speakers and away from boundaries, it is worth a (free) try, happy hunting.

Thank you for such a detailed response, I need to find some time for some experimenting.

 

[tonapo]

I did quick RTA measurement tonight and you can see the results above.

 

[ManuCV]

@tonapo I have a similar listening space (although with inverted proportions) and I also have the Reference 1. Maybe I can help you with my experience.
I was also considering trying some class D and I did, I recently got the Audiophonics HPA-S400NC. My previous amp was the Rotel RA-1572 (which is less powerful than your Musical Fidelity) and the extra juice of the dual Hypex NC400 is noticeable. However the biggest improvement to the sound was adding a subwoofer (which I already had, as the Rotel has sub inputs). I really like the bass of the R1s but with the subwoofer is next level. Really.

You can fit a small sub behind the right speaker, you have 55cm as per your diagram so a KEF KC62 can fit nicely, I think. The sub choice is another matter, and probably you can be better advised by someone else. In my case I added a miniDSP SDH for room correction and preamp duties, and since I no longer have the sub input from my Rotel, I am managing the sub integration with it as well. And I have 2 different presets on the SDH, one with sub and another without it, running the R1s full range. As you said and you well know, these can go very low (for their size) and they have a sweet, enjoyable bass. From time to time I like to listen to what these speakers can offer without additional hardware, but listening to them with the sub really elevates the experience.

Not sure if this helped or not, but here it is.

 

[Jaxjax]

I am an anxious audiophile. I am always wondering about how I can improve my system or if I have made good choices with the kit I have already purchased. Although I do enjoy that aspect of the hobby, all the tinkering.

Previously to finding this site, I would generally use subjective reviews of equipment, I would then try any interesting kit in the shop, and then, if possible, at home. However now there is a third aspect, the measurements. This is great, however I am not sure about all my kit, as I have only seen manufacturer measurements for some of it which makes me unsure about whether I could do better.

My current system

Server - Roon on a intel NUC i5 – music files predominantly FLAC served up via ethernet (and qobuz subscription)
Streamer – Raspberry pi 4 running ropieee, stock psu
DAC – Topping D90, stock psu – USB input. Sharp filter. XLR out (Mogami 2534 with neutric connector cable).
Amplifier – Musical Fidelity M6si, balanced input. Belden 5T00UP Speaker Cable 10AWG
Speakers – Kef Reference 1.
Room correction – www.homeaudiofidelity.com – filters loaded into Roon.

So, any thoughts on how to improve the system? I have been wondering about class d amps, so I have been reading the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET review with interest.

Thanks for reading and for any comments.

You very well might need to get into DIY. This offers something purchasing gear never can do & it is endless on what you can build & change for much,much cheaper compared to the so called highend equivalent. I learned to build of schematics years ago with tube amps & built everything I could off crazy tubes & circuits off all types. When you lite your your build up & listen there is nothing like it. Speakers too...I don't do it anymore as I just listen to music but the ride was like no other.

 

[Rja4000]

Room correction EQ is the way to go.

I'm using a Dirac hardware (miniDSP DDRC22D) for my main system for years, and I'm quite happy with it, although I'm certain I could achieve the same result for less money, more time... and much more anxiety... by measuring and tuning by myself.

My experience with that exercice is that
1. You need to learn how to measure
Where to place the microphone, what matters

2. You have a choice
There is no such thing like one rule for room correction for all rooms/speakers/tastes.
That's one of the nice things with Dirac: I can build several corrections, with different target curves, cutting correction above a few hundred Hz or keeping it full range or anything in between.
And switch back and forth between those corrections whenever I want to.

As an example, I have speakers that have a quite large dispersion, and although the sound is more "focused" with full range correction (not marketing audiophile bullshit: this is a very obvious difference), I prefer to keep the more reverberated sound I get when correcting only below 200Hz.

So you'll need to experiment.
As I said, Dirac has the benefit to diminish anxiety : the proposed corrections just work, and there is no painful path to that.


Another track for improvement of your audio pleasure:
Multiply the number of places for music in your house/appartement.

I have a multiroom system (Bluesound in my case, but Roon is even more flexible. And can integrate Bluesound as end points)
A pair of Focal Aria 906 in the (big) kitchen, another system in the office, another small system in my wife's workshop...

Not all are high end, for sure. But then you enjoy music more, since you have it where you are, where you live. No longer only in a static way.

Which leads back to room correction measurements : what is your ACTUAL listening position ?