Amps for headphones make no sense

[Pancreas]

Why would you need more volume/power in the first place, when headphones are closer to your ears than any other audio reproduction. It makes ZERO sense.

An external DAC should offer more than enough power, volume and clarity for anything.

I have Motu Ultralite MK5 and my headphones which I rarely use, Sennheiser 598. When I connect them to my interface, the volume range is big. I can make them loud to the point of damaging my ears.

 

[Multicore]

Your Motu incorporates an amp. Without it you wouldn't hear much. In the old days we used piezo and other very sensitive ear pieces without amplification for certain things like a crystal radio set but they didn't sound very good.

 

[Emlin]

Why would you need more volume/power in the first place, when headphones are closer to your ears than any other audio reproduction. It makes ZERO sense.

An external DAC should offer more than enough power, volume and clarity for anything.

I have Motu Ultralite MK5 and my headphones which I rarely use, Sennheiser 598. When I connect them to my interface, the volume range is big. I can make them loud to the point of damaging my ears.

Thus, why do they need an amp. This makes you realize their problem is actually a potato computer or internal DAC.

It seems to be more of a placebo gimmick thing that people started doing back in the day as they thought it sounded "better" and looked cooler (with tubes sticking out) and now everyone buys amps for headphones, cause that's what audiophiles do, it must be right

An amplifier in a studio monitor, makes sense
An amplifier in a 25-100wt guitar cabinet, makes sense

It makes zero sense in headphones that are literally millimeters away from your ear canals. It's a gimmick

And your Motu Ultralite MK5 isn't a headphone amplifier?

 

[Galliardist]

Well, your interface... has a headphone amp built in, with sufficient power for the HD598s. If you had less sensitive headphones. that may not be the case.
I have two computers I use headphones with. With one, the built in sound is sufficient to drive most headphones. With the other, there is enough noise to be heard with any headphones I plug in, and the sound is distorted with some as well. So there, I need a headphone amp (actually a DAC/Amp). Simple enough, isn't it? There's no need for me to replace a computer just because it can't drive headphones. Headphone amps are cheaper.

Not all DACs have built in headphone amps.

There are other reasons why you may use a headphone amp - some can run more than one set of headphones at a time, for example. Or you may need different EQ for different people from the same source (one person having poor hearing, maybe).

It's not a placebo gimmick. I have two computers I use headphones with. With one, the built in sound is sufficient to drive most headphones. With the other, there is enough noise to be heard with any headphones I plug in, and the sound is distorted with some as well. So there, I need a headphone amp (actually a DAC/Amp). Simple enough, isn't it? There's no need for me to replace a computer just because it can't drive headphones. Headphone amps are cheaper.

Not all DACs have built in headphone amps.

I daresay there are people using headphone amps that don't need to.

There are other reasons why you may use a headphone amp - some can run more than one set of headphones at a time, for example. Or you may need different EQ for different people from the same source (one person having poor hearing, maybe).

It's not a placebo gimmick. I daresay there are people using headphone amps that don't need to, but that is a case by case thing.

 

[raif71]

Your headphone (Senn 598) is ok to be used with the audio interface. Perhaps not so with higher impedance sets such as Senn 6xx and perhaps planar magnetic headphones which need a dedicated headphone amp.

 

[Pancreas]

damn I played myself lol I didn't know it had an amp

 

[raif71]

damn I played myself lol I didn't know it had an amp

No worries, you're a champ

 

[Pancreas]

Well, your interface... has a headphone amp built in, with sufficient power for the HD598s. If you had less sensitive headphones. that may not be the case.
I have two computers I use headphones with. With one, the built in sound is sufficient to drive most headphones. With the other, there is enough noise to be heard with any headphones I plug in, and the sound is distorted with some as well. So there, I need a headphone amp (actually a DAC/Amp). Simple enough, isn't it? There's no need for me to replace a computer just because it can't drive headphones. Headphone amps are cheaper.

What's the best headphones I can use with this interface before the headphones need an actual dedicated amp?

 

[Galliardist]

damn I played myself lol I didn't know it had an amp

Wherever there is a headphone socket, there is an amp of some sort to drive it. They don't need to be very powerful for most headphones

 

[VintageFlanker]

It makes ZERO sense.

Please add "to me" next time...

 

[Galliardist]

What's the best headphones I can use with this interface before the headphones need an actual dedicated amp?

Well, we happen to be in luck here, because your interface has been reviewed by Amir:

MOTU UltraLite-mk5 Review (Audio Interface) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

You're looking at headphones with higher impedances and lower power requirements. It just so happens that the HD598 is a good match, except that it needs extensive EQ to work wiell with normal ears. (My wife who is hearing damaged uses these headphones for TV and it turns out they're great for her as is.)

Armed with this information you can check reviews for suitably sensitive headphones. There are some reviewed here that may fit the bill: check the review index. If you ask nicely without the clickbait title in another thread, I'm sure someone can give you a better answer than I can.

If you happen to like the 598s and aren't using them for anything critical like mixing, maybe stick with them regardless. At least they are really comfortable.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Many moons ago I had an opportunity to test-drive the then-new HD598 and HD558. I thought the '598 was a pretty good all-rounder, fairly good for classical, though it seemed to have a slightly recessed upper midrange... I preferred vocals on the '558 which was more prominent there, although it was rather lacking in treble in return. If memory serves I did detect a bit of an enclosure resonance. Distortion measurement results are a bit meh both for these and the successor HD599, so EQ is going to have its limits towards the bottom end... thank goodness they finally ported over some HD6xx-adjacent drivers with the HD560S. (It was about time, these drivers are weaker than those of at least 3 previous generations of comparable models, going right back to the early '90s.)

Anyway, there's a whole bevy of mid-highish impedance cans of decent sensitivity that I think would work fine on the Ultralite Mk5, including a number of Sennheiser's own offerings (HD560S - HD600 - HD650, HD800 etc.) or a range of other Beyer / AKG models or the Audio Technica ATH-R70x (note: not for big or protruding ears), or perhaps even a few planars on the more sensitive side of things (maybe a Hifiman Sundara or Audeze LCD-2). I'd say anything that hits at least 102 dB/V at minimum 32, preferably 64 ohms or higher makes a good candidate.