Amplifier Suggestions Wanted

[avanti1960]

I find this thread very odd,

OK, so some dude claims to hear differences in amplifiers and wants an opinion about what amp "sounds best". Yeah, that makes sense if this was Audiogon, 6moons or absolute sound--right next to the power cord and fuse opinions. Quite bizarre that the OP would call a person a "troll" in a science based/testing based forum but it is a weird world.

Does not know what a double blind test is... figures. Anyhoo, this is how you do it right. First, get three amps and do a proper double blind test and make sure they have their gains within 0.1dB of each other. You can also add a forth amp, get a really crappy one with complete specs and it is a good idea that the top two amps are very close to each other in specs. Do your double blind test, figure out what amps you can tell a difference (if any) and what amps you can't. Then gather those specifications and purchase amps that meet or exceed those specifications and you will have the correct amplifier. If you can, do the amp test in a very, very quiet room as it would be a good idea for the background noise levels to be lower than in your house. Usually a weekend is better with light wind to make it as quiet as possible.

Now comes the easy part! Well, as long as you know what the charts/measurements mean (of course) Look at all those amp tests, know what specs you require and narrow down the amplifiers by cost, reliability, size, efficiency, features, customer service, parts availability and flexibility then choose. You don't need to "hear" the amplifiers once they exceed your ability to tell a difference (why you did the DBT in the first place)

This also helps with sources, be it DVD players, computer sound cards or even record players. If the sources exceed the amplifier specs and the amplifier specs exceed your ability to percieve a difference--you are golden.

Say you get caught up in "specmanship" or trying to get the bestestest amp ever made because it will do something. No problem, look at the distortion, frequency response etc. of the speaker testing and compare the two. If your speakers are creating 2% distortion and your amp pushes 0.05% distortion--you won't hear the amp distortion because the speaker will swamp the sound with it's much, much higher distortion levels. This way you won't be stacking up Benchmark amps or becoming a follower of the latest audio messiah.

Now if you refuse to waste your time learning about DBT, measurements, what they mean and how speakers/amps and electricity works--why are you here? I would suggest Audiogon, 6moons and absolute sound as they have an incredible amount of opinions and dogma without those pesky measurements, electrical engineering laws and psychoacoustics sciencey people involved. You can learn about cable lifters, cyrogenically frozen fuses, 5G protection and get the latest stickers that absorb quantum noise. Believe your ears! They sure do so a much better source for opinion than a site that actually tests things.

Freakin' science based trolls...

I find it very odd that people cannot accept the results of an occasional listening impression without a DBT confirmation. It can happen.
On one hand we may have very subtle differences where claims are made that could be somewhat dubious if stated matter of fact. In this case the responsible listener could easily say that the differences were too subtle to be sure. This too could happen.
The other example would be hearing something so obvious that a DBT would be a formality- such as compare test tone 100 Hz to test tone 3Khz.
I think we could all say with certainty that we would be able to pick them out without DBT.
Someplace in the middle is where many could also make the distinction with certainty, most likely varying among people with different hearing capability.
It is possible.

 

[312elements]

I find it very odd that people cannot accept the results of an occasional listening impression without a DBT confirmation. It can happen.
On one hand we may have very subtle differences where claims are made that could be somewhat dubious if stated matter of fact. In this case the responsible listener could easily say that the differences were too subtle to be sure. This too could happen.
The other example would be hearing something so obvious that a DBT would be a formality- such as compare test tone 100 Hz to test tone 3Khz.
I think we could all say with certainty that we would be able to pick them out without DBT.
Someplace in the middle is where many could also make the distinction with certainty, most likely varying among people with different hearing capability.
It is possible.

I’m with you, but different strokes for different folks. There were a couple of fairly plausible reasons for the difference in sound that made more sense than my being an idiot. The two amplifiers made by the same company and one costing twice as much as the other for one. The other being that the expensive one had significantly more power on tap. But to your point, I agree. There is a middle ground with all of this that seems often overlooked.

 

[pogo]

I’m with you, but different strokes for different folks. There were a couple of fairly plausible reasons for the difference in sound that made more sense than my being an idiot. The two amplifiers made by the same company and one costing twice as much as the other for one. The other being that the expensive one had significantly more power on tap. But to your point, I agree. There is a middle ground with all of this that seems often overlooked.

But there exists also technical data (from my point of view), that are sometimes not considered objectively. An example here would be the damping factor, which has an effect on cabling (length, ...) or on power-hungry and impedance-critical loudspeakers. I clearly decided against an AHB2 with a moderate damping factor and opted for a Nad M33, as a moderate damping factor of the amplifier on my loudspeakers makes my bass area appear spongy.

 

[David Marksberg]

This looks interesting. Do you have any experience with the product? I’m going to do some googling.

I owned a fet/valve preamp that was great. The quality of the switchgear was way way above anything anywhere near the price. Milspec would not be an exaggeration. Tons of gain. Sold it to a friend who had his Audio Research die. He'll never give it up. Also still own an Omega III power amp. Found it at a garage sale. It stands up to anything I've had including stuff friends have brought over... Purifi, Audio Research, Aragon, Adcom etc.
Really good stuff.

 

[Wes]

Whatever you get, be sure you can return it. Do a DBT, levels matched with a voltmeter. You can run them in mono with your present amp on one channel, new amp on the other.

It is not that anyone is an "idiot" - instead, it is that numerous things can create a favorable result in any listening impression, yet there are sound engineering reasons that point to (tho do not prove) that most modern amplifiers will have the same SQ.

OTOH, SQ is not the same as euphonicity. Just ask Nelson Pass.

I don't think anyone is trolling you, just trying to make sure you get what you want and not waste money.

A good warranty and a co. that is likely to stay in business to honor it are both desirable purchase criteria. And NAD fits them pretty well.

 

[Descartes]

Here's some measurements of the Monolith.
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/monoprice-monolith-7-channel-amplifier-review/3

If not doing class D, I'd probably go with the Monolith myself on a $1K budget. They're made in US by ATI.

Amir do you know how they compare to Benchmark?

 

[pogo]

But there exists also technical data (from my point of view), that are sometimes not considered objectively. An example here would be the damping factor, which has an effect on cabling (length, ...) or on power-hungry and impedance-critical loudspeakers. I clearly decided against an AHB2 with a moderate damping factor and opted for a Nad M33, as a moderate damping factor of the amplifier on my loudspeakers makes my bass area appear spongy.

With the T+A A200 amp probably every taste is served, thanks to switchable DF.
Link

 

[mdunjic]

I would go for used Quad 909 if you can find it … I am using pair of them for biamping my speakers for over a decade … my preamp is Benchmark LA4. Quad’s “current dumping” is based on their unique cost effective implementation of feed-forward design, for which Quad got highest awards back in the days. They have modern versions of 909s in their current Artera Stereo version power amp now. The design uses similar principle of feed-forward error correction within crossover region as Benchmark AHB2 poweramp. Worth checking used 909 imo. Here they are