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Amplifier SINAD list ASR + 3rd parties

despoiler

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despoiler

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Yep, that's why I said that -110dB looks like THD without the noise component.

No you didn't.

I did look at the first article and I did read it. THD + N below -110dB are numbers achieved by DACs, not amps.

So again, THD + N is -87db at full power which is more than normal for amplifiers.
 

DACs_Lover

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I am very much blown away by the google DOC file.
my suspicion is right those golden products offered by D'agostino are inferior. It is well boasted by audiofool magazines like stereofool and the absolutefool.

Even Mark Levinson products are worse in performance than a simple ICEpower / Hypex module

I used to believe in audiophile gears sold by famed companies like Pass, McIntosh, Krell, Levinson. Subjective reviewers are losing their heads as ASR showing us what to look for in a good quality electronics.

If there is a file for preamp / dac / speakers. I truly believe megabuck speakers would join D'agostino amp.

Long Love Amir, Long Live ASR
 

JSmith

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Long Live ASR
1631005079873.png




JSmith
 

nerdoldnerdith

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I am very much blown away by the google DOC file.
my suspicion is right those golden products offered by D'agostino are inferior. It is well boasted by audiofool magazines like stereofool and the absolutefool.

Even Mark Levinson products are worse in performance than a simple ICEpower / Hypex module

I used to believe in audiophile gears sold by famed companies like Pass, McIntosh, Krell, Levinson. Subjective reviewers are losing their heads as ASR showing us what to look for in a good quality electronics.

If there is a file for preamp / dac / speakers. I truly believe megabuck speakers would join D'agostino amp.

Long Love Amir, Long Live ASR
FWIW, Hypex is relatively new to the scene. Of course newer technology will be better than stuff from years ago.

And I don't believe ASR is making the claim that you should be looking exclusively at distortion and noise at low power when evaluating electronics. I would certainly never make that claim myself. You need to look at the big picture and understand what your speakers need. The less sensitive they are, the less important distortion and noise are at low power. You need to take into consideration how powerful the amplifier is in general, how it will handle your speaker's load, and at what level it maintains low distortion and noise. If there are nonlinearities introducing distortion above the 5W where all of these amplifiers are compared, then the distortion will become "audible" above a certain volume. For example, if your speaker is only doing 83dB at the listening position at 5W, then having a higher SINAD than that doesn't really matter. What will matter is how it performs with 50W, 500W, etc., where many of these cheap Class D amplifiers start to fall apart. Older, more expensive Class A and Class AB amplifiers are better at maintaining the inaudibility of distortion at high power levels.
 
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Matias

Matias

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What will matter is how it performs with 50W, 500W, etc., where many of these cheap Class D amplifiers start to fall apart. Older, more expensive Class A and Class AB amplifiers are better at maintaining the inaudibility of distortion at high power levels.
I don't know, but NCore is quite low distortion in high power still, see NC1200 for example. And now the new Purifi is killer too.
 

Rottmannash

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I just love these posts w/ generalities that don't apply in 2021.
 
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nerdoldnerdith

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I don't know, but NCore is quite low distortion in high power still, see NC1200 for example. And now the new Purifi is killer too.
No doubt, but the NC1200 for example illustrates my point. It has exceedingly low distortion at 5W where everything is compared, but deteriorates after that. Unless you have extremely sensitive speakers those numbers aren't particularly useful. It would not be fair to say it is a better amplifier for all practical purposes than a more expensive unit with higher but still inaudible distortion at 5W that decreases as power increases.
 

Rottmannash

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No doubt, but the NC1200 for example illustrates my point. It has exceedingly low distortion at 5W where everything is compared, but deteriorates after that. Unless you have extremely sensitive speakers those numbers aren't particularly useful. It would not be fair to say it is a better amplifier for all practical purposes than a more expensive unit with higher but still inaudible distortion at 5W that decreases as power increases.
257 watts @ .0002% THD+N into 4 ohms and 131 watts @ .00019% THD+N into 8 ohms. Not sure if your argument holds at higher power. Don't see where the distortion figures "deteriorates after that" (5 W).

1631070860602.png
1631070860602.png
 

nerdoldnerdith

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257 watts @ .0002% THD+N into 4 ohms and 131 watts @ .00019% THD+N into 8 ohms. Not sure if your argument holds at higher power. Don't see where the distortion figures "deteriorates after that" (5 W).

View attachment 152025View attachment 152025
My comment was clearly about a different amplifier than the Purifi...

The reason I made my point in the first place has to do with the limitations of Purifi. Speaking as someone who owns eight channels of Purifi, I am by no means saying they are anything less than exceptional for the right kind of speakers, but they simply aren't powerful enough for less sensitive speakers like those I was trying to drive with them. All of that cleanliness becomes meaningless when you run into clipping. That forced me to upgrade to a better amplifier, and in so doing I had to reevaluate what I needed in an amplifier. More power of course, but more importantly how the amplifier behaved at those levels of power. I ultimately went with a Hypex NC2000, which gave me more power than I really needed, but was the only amplifier at a reasonable price that produced the amount of power I need with respectable numbers. There are, however, amplifiers costing many times more that don't measure quite as well as the Hypex at 5W, but measure better than it at rated power. Such amplifiers would almost certainly be better in my case if I were willing to shell out the money, and it is incorrect to say that the Hypex is better than them because it measures better at 5W.

Which I why I said you need to look at the measurements in greater detail to decide what is right for your needs. There is no easy way to compare them with a simple number and say one is better than the other because of that number and say that amplifier is the best because it has the highest number. I have the amplifier with the (2nd) highest number, and it simply wasn't right for me.
 
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JSmith

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It has exceedingly low distortion at 5W where everything is compared, but deteriorates after that. Unless you have extremely sensitive speakers those numbers aren't particularly useful.
My comment was clearly about a different amplifier than the Purifi...
Every amp has a sweet spot for distortion though... so not getting your point then.



JSmith
 

nerdoldnerdith

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Every amp has a sweet spot for distortion though... so not getting your point then.



JSmith
My point is that you have to look at the full picture to determine your needs. If your speakers only produce 86dB of SPL with 5W, then there are many many amplifiers that will be blameless at those levels. You can't just find the cleanest one at that level of power and make the mistake of thinking that it will be the best for your needs.

Ideally you want that sweet spot to be at rated power. If an amplifier only has 86dB of SINAD at 5W but 106dB at 500W it will be better than one with 106dB of SINAD at 5W and 86dB at 500W.
 

boXem | audio

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My point is that you have to look at the full picture to determine your needs. If your speakers only produce 86dB of SPL with 5W, then there are many many amplifiers that will be blameless at those levels. You can't just find the cleanest one at that level of power and make the mistake of thinking that it will be the best for your needs.

Ideally you want that sweet spot to be at rated power. If an amplifier only has 86dB of SINAD at 5W but 106dB at 500W it will be better than one with 106dB of SINAD at 5W and 86dB at 500W.

Hypex NC1200 is designed for low impedance loads.
In 2 Ohm:
1631086429544.png

Doesn't look like "falling apart"...

According to your logic (that I am not sure to agree with btw), it's a quite good amplifier :).
 

Rottmannash

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My comment was clearly about a different amplifier than the Purifi...

The reason I made my point in the first place has to do with the limitations of Purifi. Speaking as someone who owns eight channels of Purifi, I am by no means saying they are anything less than exceptional for the right kind of speakers, but they simply aren't powerful enough for less sensitive speakers like those I was trying to drive with them. All of that cleanliness becomes meaningless when you run into clipping. That forced me to upgrade to a better amplifier, and in so doing I had to reevaluate what I needed in an amplifier. More power of course, but more importantly how the amplifier behaved at those levels of power. I ultimately went with a Hypex NC2000, which gave me more power than I really needed, but was the only amplifier at a reasonable price that produced the amount of power I need with respectable numbers. There are, however, amplifiers costing many times more that don't measure quite as well as the Hypex at 5W, but measure better than it at rated power. Such amplifiers would almost certainly be better in my case if I were willing to shell out the money, and it is incorrect to say that the Hypex is better than them because it measures better at 5W.

Which I why I said you need to look at the measurements in greater detail to decide what is right for your needs. There is no easy way to compare them with a simple number and say one is better than the other because of that number and say that amplifier is the best because it has the highest number. I have the amplifier with the (2nd) highest number, and it simply wasn't right for me.
What speakers are you driving and what amp did you purchase to drive them, if you don't mind?
 
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