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Amplifier Pairing for Triangle Borea BR03 Speakers

rhz

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I've tried three amps with these speakers:

Cambridge Audio AXA35 was just dull.
Emotiva A-100 seemed to have a v-shaped signature that left vocals recessed. There was great detail at the low and high ends.
NAD 316BEE V2 was the opposite of the Emotiva--vocals were emphasized at the expense of detail elsewhere.

I'm pretty new to audio, but I'm guessing on the basis of my experience up to now, I'm looking for something quite neutral.

I'm wondering what other options may make sense for say under $500. I've heard some good things about the Vista Spark 2 (bummer it doesn't have a headphone jack though, 20W, but the Triangles are very efficient, so maybe this would work). I also heard about the Iotavx SA3, but it seems like a pain to order in directly from the UK (read that they were unresponsive to emails and expensive return options from US).

I will be streaming music from a computer through a DAC. If I get a DAC with a volume control (e.g., Topping E30), I guess I could consider a power amp (with no volume knob).

I'd love to learn of recommendations, especially from those who own these Triangle speakers.

Thanks--this forum has been really helpful.
 

Willem

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Are you sure the differences were real? Did you do a blind test, very precisely level matched (i.e with a volt meter)?
 
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rhz

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You need to stop watching youtube videos. V-Shaped curve? That's not how it works. Those differences are there because you are creating them in your mind thanks to those terrible videos. Those "reviewers" are idiots. Think of people giving you wine tasting notes. Raspberries, plums, and a whiff of tobacco! Think of inception, lol.

What you need is proper power in terms of wattage and, just as importantly, impedance. To know what you need, you need to know what the speakers require. Most of these types of speaker companies over-inflate their specs such as sensitivity and don't acknowledge lower impedance requirements. Those amps all offer different power. Unless you are using the aforementioned volt-meter, you are not going to properly level match them to do a proper comparison. As a short cut, however, if you are not using the speakers in a near-field configuration, the modern bookshelf speaker (~86dB sensitivity) requires a minimum of 50 watts (though in reality a bit more). But also make sure the amp does 4ohms well.

The first thing you need to do, however, is go over what the terminology of this site means. Start here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-audio-measurements.2351/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...digital-audio-measurements.10523/#post-290932


Good luck! (And stay away from those videos.)
Hi,
Are you sure the differences were real? Did you do a blind test, very precisely level matched (i.e with a volt meter)?
I'm not 100% sure that these differences are real. I did come to the same conclusion over a variety of recordings.

I understand that a blind test with level matching would be helpful. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be a realistic option for me (live alone, don't have a voltmeter, and would be somewhat reluctant to use one on equipment I may be returning). I guess that leaves me in a bit of a bind....
 
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rhz

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You need to stop watching youtube videos. V-Shaped curve? That's not how it works. Those differences are there because you are creating them in your mind thanks to those terrible videos. Those "reviewers" are idiots. Think of people giving you wine tasting notes. Raspberries, plums, and a whiff of tobacco! Think of inception, lol.

What you need is proper power in terms of wattage and, just as importantly, impedance. To know what you need, you need to know what the speakers require. Most of these types of speaker companies over-inflate their specs such as sensitivity and don't acknowledge lower impedance requirements. Those amps all offer different power. Unless you are using the aforementioned volt-meter, you are not going to properly level match them to do a proper comparison. As a short cut, however, if you are not using the speakers in a near-field configuration, the modern bookshelf speaker (~86dB sensitivity) requires a minimum of 50 watts (though in reality a bit more). But also make sure the amp does 4ohms well.

The first thing you need to do, however, is go over what the terminology of this site means. Start here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-audio-measurements.2351/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...digital-audio-measurements.10523/#post-290932


Good luck! (And stay away from those videos.)
Thanks for your response. The speakers claim 8 ohms nominal with 4.2 minimum. The Emotiva claims to offer 50W into 8ohms and 80W into 4 ohms. The NAD is 40W for both 8 and 4 ohm, according to their specs. Perhaps it's irrelevant, but on all the amplifers, I could barely move the volume knob from minimum before the speakers became too loud.

I'll have a look at the links you posted.

As for the videos, yes I've watched the videos. While that could certainly color my impressions, I will add that I didn't come to the conclusions about the NAD or Emotiva based on other people's impressions of those amps since I didn't read/hear anything about them that said they had a particular sound. It could absolutely be a mind-trick though. As indicated above, I'm not sure how to do a blind test while living alone...
 

nck045

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For $500 budget get this and be done with the amplifier game. https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...wer-amplifier-ncore-2x125w-4-ohm-p-12756.html or this if you need more power / want to make a future-proof purchase in case you upgrade to less sensitive speakers in the future https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-amplifier/audiophonics-mpa-s250nc-rca-class-d-stereo-amplifier-ncore-2x250w-4-ohm-p-14278.html

Both are based on Hypex Ncore modules, meaning they are as neutral as it gets with ultra low distortion, so no more mind tricks to worry about.

It is a power amp so you will need volume control from a DAC or preamp. I used to own the BR03, good speakers overall with slightly forward tuning in the mid/high frequencies but nothing too offensive.
 

Willem

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The question was for the OP. If he already owns one, the only questions is if there is a fair chance that sonic improvement is possible. After all, unless they are underpowered, amplifiers make litle sonic difference.
 
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rhz

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The question was for the OP. If he already owns one, the only questions is if there is a fair chance that sonic improvement is possible. After all, unless they are underpowered, amplifiers make litle sonic difference.
I have purchased all of these. I'm evaluating them at home and will return whatever doesn't work for me. I also purchased the Elac DBR62 reference, which I know is well-regarded. I just didn't like it that much.
 

Willem

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In Europe I would recommend a Yamaha AS 501/701/801 with digital inputs but those seem to be somewhat more expensive in the US. The alternative is a DAC with volume control and a separate power amplifier. The best of those are based on Hypex modules but I doubt you could get one within your budget. The alternative is a pro audio amp. I bought my son an excellent Yamaha p2500s but those have been discontinued.
 
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rhz

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If you continue going down this route thinking that "pairing" an amplifier and a speaker means syncing up the tonality of each component (warm and cool, etc.) you are going to regret your purchase within a month. That is simply not how it works. You pair by power and impedance. It's not that complicated really. At the sound level you seem to listen to any idea that the amplifier is making the speaker sound a certain way is a figment of your imagination. More, how do you even have a basis of what your system is supposed to "sound like" if you go about it that way? That's where speaker measurements come in, particularly estimated in-room response.

There is a review for the Elac DBR62 on this site. If you learn how to read the measurements you would know that the amplifiers you are trying out are in no way adequate enough for them. Again, if you want to take a short cut, just get a more powerful amp than any of the ones you chose. The one recommended is an excellent choice (if you don't mind its aesthetics). But unless you learn how to read measurements you are not going to make the best decision and will probably continue the endless upgrade cycle. Know what you are getting and take your time learning about it.

Thanks. Which recommended amp are you referring to (there was more than one above)? When you say that a bit more than 50W is needed, what minimum number does that translate to (@ 4 and 8 ohms)? Thanks again. I appreciate the advice to take it slowly. If it does make sense though, I could certainly order a more powerful amplifier.
 
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rhz

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Either Audiophonics Hypex amp. If I were to spend $500+ on an amp I would never buy one with less that 100W (8ohms for me). Everything said of those amps is true.

And I would say 50W at whatever the speaker is rated. But, yeah, if you can afford it, 100-150W is the smart way to go no matter your speaker.

Perhaps it's an unwarranted concern: I'm in the US and, to my knowledge, there's no US distributor or option to return on the Audiophonics.
As an alternative, would the A-100's big brother make sense? https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/a-300
For the Triangles, the spec sheet claims a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. However, the measurements you link to show pretty significant variations as a function of frequency. I guess 8 ohms is about the average impedance over the audio band.
 

Chromatischism

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Perhaps it's an unwarranted concern: I'm in the US and, to my knowledge, there's no US distributor or option to return on the Audiophonics.
As an alternative, would the A-100's big brother make sense? https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/a-300
For the Triangles, the spec sheet claims a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. However, the measurements you link to show pretty significant variations as a function of frequency. I guess 8 ohms is about the average impedance over the audio band.
You can return to Audiophonics within 14 days. Not a lot of time, but it should be plenty enough to figure out whether or not you like it. Just don't be one of those people who goes and builds a new home and stockpiles parts in a spare room until you can get to them.

I can't imagine someone returning one due to not liking it. It would probably be because of a defect or damage.

By the way, I love the URL for the return policy: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/content/6-returns-and-ass
:D

I'm in the midwest U.S. and I just bought it on a whim. I guess I was convinced enough after seeing Amir's IOM Ncore review so I went shopping.

The Triangles are an interesting case. There is quite some rave about them. Best sound under $600 apparently. But the measurements are just okay, so I'm trying to figure out why people feel that way. I guess it's one of those things where it's not bad for the price. I would say it competes on price with the ELAC DBR62 and offers a different sound.
 
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rhz

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You can return to Audiophonics within 14 days. Not a lot of time, but it should be plenty enough to figure out whether or not you like it. Just don't be one of those people who goes and builds a new home and stockpiles parts in a spare room until you can get to them.

I can't imagine someone returning one due to not liking it. It would probably be because of a defect or damage.

By the way, I love the URL for the return policy: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/content/6-returns-and-ass
:D

I'm in the midwest U.S. and I just bought it on a whim. I guess I was convinced enough after seeing Amir's IOM Ncore review so I went shopping.

The Triangles are an interesting case. There is quite some rave about them. Best sound under $600 apparently. But the measurements are just okay, so I'm trying to figure out why people feel that way. I guess it's one of those things where it's not bad for the price. I would say it competes on price with the ELAC DBR62 and offers a different sound.
Thanks. I missed the return policy. BTW, how long did it take to arrive after you ordered it? I'm afraid I'd need to make a final decision on everything I currently have before this would even arrive ....
 
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A Surfer

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Not to mention, you can simply have a speaker tap cable made and drive headphones right from the speaker terminals. I have done that for years with my NAD M3. Fabulous results.
 
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rhz

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Not to mention, you can simply have a speaker tap cable made and drive headphones right from the speaker terminals. I have done that for years with my NAD M3. Fabulous results.
Wow. I never thought of that. Can this be done generally?
 

A Surfer

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Wow. I never thought of that. Can this be done generally?
Yes, it is quite simple really. I had Trevor over at Norne Audio make me a nice speaker tap cable. I haven't needed a dedicated headphone amp in years.
 

A Surfer

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People often forget that amps actually like a more demanding load, assuming that it isn't absolutely all over the map, so driving headphones from the speaker terminals is fine. My M3 provides 180 watts stable down to 4 ohms and I have driven many headphones from the speaker tap cable. Here is a partial list of those headphones: HD800S/700/650/600, Sony Z1R, LCD 2F, HE 560/400i/Edition X V2, Quad ERA-1, Pioneer SE Monitor 5, Klipsch HP-3 and quite a few others. The performance has been great and never an issue with damage because I know how to use a volume dial.
 

Chromatischism

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Thanks. I missed the return policy. BTW, how long did it take to arrive after you ordered it? I'm afraid I'd need to make a final decision on everything I currently have before this would even arrive ....
It was during COVID restrictions so it took 3 weeks. I don't think everyone was staffing the place at the time. That may be different now, not sure.
 
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rhz

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It was during COVID restrictions so it took 3 weeks. I don't think everyone was staffing the place at the time. That may be different now, not sure.
Sounds like it's worth emailing them at least. BTW, do you recall the shipping charge as well as whether you were charged French taxes (VAT)?
 
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