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Amplifier *Novice alert*

LinusR

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Hi All,

I'm completely new to the world of Hi FI Music and I have a question which is very possibly dumb. I have a Harman Kardon AVR151s receiver which delivers 75W per channel, as per their user manual. Currently I just have a very poor set up with 5 JBL satellites + a JBL Powered Sub connected to it. I'm considering setting up a good audio system. My main concern is, is this receiver good enough for more contemporary hi-fi speakers? I've read better reviews about other brands of amps which deliver much lower current (like Marantz, Denon etc delivering as low as 30W per channel). I don't understand how these can be better than something that delivers more power to the speakers. How do they differ or how can an amp make music sound better? The more I read mainstream reviews, the more hollow they sound.
 

solderdude

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Speakers and above all their positioning is THE most important thing determining the sound quality.
Output power is more related to the max SPL (how loud it goes without starting to sound nasty).
Efficiency and impedance of the speakers also have an influence on the fact if 7x 30W is enough or you need substantially more (75W or next step 200W).

So look around for speakers you like/want and have auditioned in a shop (if possible) connect them to your AVR and play around with positioning and EQ before changing the electronics.
 

anphex

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Welcome to ASR,

75W might be just enough for those tiny sattelite speakers paired with a subwoofer. Once you use bookshelf or floor standing speakers with bass boost/bass eq it could get critical. When the new speakers also have a low sensivity you're asking for clipping or triggering the protection circuit.
Rule of thumb is that you're mostly fine with 200 W@4Ohm for all purposes if you don't have special circumstances.

Since you arrived at ASR, you can ditch most magazines and "reviewers" now. Trust science and cold hard data :).

Thing is though, an amplifier has it's best performance close to the absolute clipping border where THD and Noise ratio is at it's best. The basis for comparision here is 5 Watt which is a good real life metric for everyday use and represents actual day to day performance.
An amp does not sound, it just (should) amplify. The "sound" comes from distortion, noise, power supply ripple, basically anything that is measured my Amir. The best amp is an amp that just makes the incoming signal louder.
People claim that there are thing's that can't be measured. I think it's not true. All those other things that might be unmeasurable boil down to psycho acustics which is a whole different field.

As for AV-receivers your best bet currently is DENON. Price to value ratio is great.
 

JSmith

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Harman Kardon AVR151s receiver which delivers 75W per channel
is this receiver good enough for more contemporary hi-fi speakers?
So you mean stereo? Should be enough for most speakers and general listening conditions (a very general comment)... I'd be more concerned about the SNR of this unit;
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF-A)75dB
... and the fact there is no THD+N figure stated whatsoever.


JSmith
 
OP
L

LinusR

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So you mean stereo? Should be enough for most speakers and general listening conditions (a very general comment)... I'd be more concerned about the SNR of this unit;

... and the fact there is no THD+N figure stated whatsoever.


JSmith
Found these figures on the user manual:

1656321916373.png
 

JSmith

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Found these figures on the user manual:
Yes that's the same pdf I linked above and as you can see there is no THD+N @1KHz... seems they may have wanted the noise component out of that quoted and basic THD figure, which based on the SNR figure may be quite high. ;)

Do you have any interest in sending this in for in depth testing and are you in the US? :)


JSmith
 

FrantzM

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Hi

The speakers are most important. It would be better to know what speakers you are considering. 75 watts can be quite enough for a medium-sized room, say less than 40 square meters, enclosed space. if it is an open floor, things may change.
Your receiver is what I would term: "good enough". It is true they don't mention its SNR, but it likely better than that of some tubes amplifiers, some reviewers are raving about. I would advise to concentrate on the speakers and subwoofer. It may sound flippant, it is not.

Peace.
 
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LinusR

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Yes that's the same pdf I linked above and as you can see there is no THD+N @1KHz... seems they may have wanted the noise component out of that quoted and basic THD figure, which based on the SNR figure may be quite high. ;)

Do you have any interest in sending this in for in depth testing and are you in the US? :)


JSmith
Ahh... Gotcha!!!

Unfortunately I wont be able to send in the unit. I live in Dubai. ;)
 
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LinusR

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Hi

The speakers are most important. It would be better to know what speakers you are considering. 75 watts can be quite enough for a medium-sized room, say less than 40 square meters, enclosed space. if it is an open floor, things may change.
Your receiver is what I would term: "good enough". It is true they don't mention its SNR, but it likely better than that of some tubes amplifiers, some reviewers are raving about. I would advise to concentrate on the speakers and subwoofer. It may sound flippant, it is not.

Peace.
The room is approximately 40sqm. I'm really at a loss about the speakers, given the amount of 'reviews'. Do you have any suggestions I could check out?
 

anphex

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Unfortunately I wont be able to send in the unit. I live in Dubai. ;)

I'd like to use this moment to remind people that we need an ASR Europe outlet. There should be plenty of people itching to send in gadgets if it wasn't for that 200 $ shipping fee back und forth EU-USA. There even should be plenty of trustworthy and savyy people in EU region who would be able to handle the Klippel spinorama. If there was a GoFundMe for the Klippel I'd throw some money in. :)
 

JSmith

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I'm really at a loss about the speakers, given the amount of 'reviews'.
Are you after floorstanders or standmount/bookshelf speakers and what is your approximate budget?

ASR has a large resource of speaker measurements, although the majority are standmount due to the difficult logistics of sending floorstanders for measurement.


JSmith
 
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LinusR

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Are you after floorstanders or standmount/bookshelf speakers and what is your approximate budget?
I initially started off checking budget floorstanders. After a while, came across bookshelf models like Elac Debut DBR62 and KEF LS50 Meta(Expensive), which seem to be highly regarded. I don't know if B&W is good, but their 606S2 and 607S2 are available for very reasonable prices as well.
My approx budget would be $1000, to start with, on the speakers.
 

JSmith

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My approx budget would be $1000, to start with, on the speakers.
The Revel M16 may be worth some consideration in that price range;


JSmith
 
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LinusR

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The Revel M16 may be worth some consideration in that price range;


JSmith
Thank you for this brilliant suggestion... extensive review and recommendation from AmirM. Methinks, 'Shut up-and-take-my-money' material!! I don't think they're available in Dubai, but I'll definitely post back if I somehow manage to get them...
 

Tatr76

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Hi
I had an old AVR350 laying about and a friend gave me some ls50's for nothing so hooked them up in office with svs sub for secondary system as cost nothing. Not measured it but sounds okay. Buy some speakers and it would be a okay stop gap at worst until you save up and get another amplifier maybe. That way better speaker budget so less likely to want to change in future. You could also get some active speakers instead :)
 

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Katji

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srrxr71

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I'd like to use this moment to remind people that we need an ASR Europe outlet. There should be plenty of people itching to send in gadgets if it wasn't for that 200 $ shipping fee back und forth EU-USA. There even should be plenty of trustworthy and savyy people in EU region who would be able to handle the Klippel spinorama. If there was a GoFundMe for the Klippel I'd throw some money in. :)
Better to set up a shipping fund of $10k to send 50 products for testing to Amir in USA than to his twin in Europe who will need $120k to set up a Klippel in Europe. You still need to fund shipping to and fro European locations to the euro ASR anyway. The difference isn’t going to be much I suppose.
 
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dorakeg

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Speakers and above all their positioning is THE most important thing determining the sound quality.
Output power is more related to the max SPL (how loud it goes without starting to sound nasty).
Efficiency and impedance of the speakers also have an influence on the fact if 7x 30W is enough or you need substantially more (75W or next step 200W).

So look around for speakers you like/want and have auditioned in a shop (if possible) connect them to your AVR and play around with positioning and EQ before changing the electronics.

Just want to add on. Room acoustics is also another very important factor.
 
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