Amplifier for Wharfedale Linton, budget $ 1,300

[Roland]

I don’t think that the AVR-X2800H comes with a DACs section.

Besides: If it’s actually a 2-channel amplifier what you want, then with the Denon AVR-X2800H you have to pay for a lot of features which you’ll probably hardly ever use. Like all the multichannel stuff, the video renderers, the radio tuners etc etc.

Edit: I correct myself. As the AVR-X2800H has two digital audio inputs (optical), it has to have an in-built DAC.

Although it is a 7 channel avr, the Denon is great as a stereo amp, it just has far more features and flexibility than similarly priced 2 channel amps. Few of us use all of the features in an avr, but they basically come free compared with stereo amps (even the extra 5 amp channels come free!).

 

[kaffe]

I finally placed an order on the Lintons and an amp… but not the A-S701

 

[Miniyouuuu]

Which amp? You returned to original idea (Leak 230)? Any other contender?

 

[kaffe]

Which amp? You returned to original idea (Leak 230)? Any other contender?

Place your beds ha.

Joking aside I actually went for the R-N800A.

Instead of buying the A-S701 and a WiiM Pro I added a meagre $ 100 and bought the R-N800A.
Now I have YPAO, streaming capabilities, etc. in a single product.

If the amp turns out not to deliver sufficient juice for my needs, perhaps at some point in the future, I can use it as a preamp with all its wonderful functionality.
If YPAO isn't working properly, or if I want Dirac either way, I can connect my laptop to the amp via USB (SoundSource doesn't work via WiFi with Dirac Live filters). Going for the alternative I would ideally have to buy an additional DAC for this connectivity.

So all in all I am very happy with this decision.

 

[Golf]

I actually went for the R-N800A.

This product is a good example for Yamaha’s strategy to publish »photoshopped« images of their HiFi products’ backsides only, for their European and American markets. They quite obviously don’t want you or me to know, that there’s a »MADE IN MALAYSIA« printed on the back of the R-N800A before we happily unbox it ...

 

[DanielT]

Place your beds ha.

Joking aside I actually went for the R-N800A.

Instead of buying the A-S701 and a WiiM Pro I added a meagre $ 100 and bought the R-N800A.
Now I have YPAO, streaming capabilities, etc. in a single product.

If the amp turns out not to deliver sufficient juice for my needs, perhaps at some point in the future, I can use it as a preamp with all its wonderful functionality.
If YPAO isn't working properly, or if I want Dirac either way, I can connect my laptop to the amp via USB (SoundSource doesn't work via WiFi with Dirac Live filters). Going for the alternative I would ideally have to buy an additional DAC for this connectivity.

So all in all I am very happy with this decision.

Exciting, congratulations.

I wonder what class the amp is based on, D or AB?

That YPAO functionality seems easy to use. I had never heard of it before.

It is an automated system. It seems very easy to use but it has its limitations, if I'm interpreting ZolaIII correctly:

Yamaha R-N1000-A vs R-N800A

I read very recently that two new mid range Yamaha streaming amps are to be launched in Europe soon (R-N1000A & R-N800A) but so far there are no reviews. Does anyone have a view on whether there will be any noticeable difference in the sound quality or performance? I'm trying to work out if...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[ZolaIII]

@DanielT A-B and probably A-S501 amplifier stages. While it does have almost same max output as A-S 7/8xx line it gives about 60W cleen (while 7/8xx range gives it clean to 120~130 W) pretty similar to R-N803 (D) did or a tad worse. From A-S 1000 and up it's a little better typology resulting in a better separation in highs (guess you can't hear it in real content) and looks compared to A-S 7/8xx range. Another difference between R-N and A-S range is R-N having input line preamp setting (usually ±10) on any input independently in a Volume Trim form but it's a 2$ part and in practice works best in - 6~7 range with 2~2.2 V input. The ADC on R-N803 whose far from great degrading performance from rather good to just good enough I hope they upgraded it but not having a high hopes there. Check out R-N803 review (Amir's) all do it's not complete.

 

[kaffe]

@DanielT A-B and probably A-S501 amplifier stages. While it does have almost same max output as A-S 7/8xx line it gives about 60W cleen (while 7/8xx range gives it clean to 120~130 W) pretty similar to R-N803 (D) did or a tad worse. From A-S 1000 and up it's a little better typology resulting in a better separation in highs (guess you can't hear it in real content) and looks compared to A-S 7/8xx range. Another difference between R-N and A-S range is R-N having input line preamp setting (usually ±10) on any input independently in a Volume Trim form but it's a 2$ part and in practice works best in - 6~7 range with 2~2.2 V input. The ADC on R-N803 whose far from great degrading performance from rather good to just good enough I hope they upgraded it but not having a high hopes there. Check out R-N803 review (Amir's) all do it's not complete.

What do you mean by clean output? RMS?

I thought the R-N800A had pretty much the exact same amplifier module as the A-S701 given the spec sheet. But the spec sheet for the former does not mention “RMS”. So there is a drastic difference between the amp performance of these models?

 

[ZolaIII]

Clean staying above 90 dB SINAD.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/yamaha-r-n803-hi-fi-audio-component-receiver-power-into-8-ohm-audio-measurements-png.67416/

Most manufacturers limit their amplifiers to 1% THD and Yamaha let's those to let's say 10%. Needless to say the review is not complete (some measurements missing) and Volume Trim whosent used so it can behave little better (both feed with embedded DAC and with settings Volume Trim to - 7). Now you need to know two things first you want use 60W program and peeks and distortion of speakers will be there when you do so it will have little impact (cuple % THD of amplifier) there.

 

[Roland68]

This product is a good example for Yamaha’s strategy to publish »photoshopped« images of their HiFi products’ backsides only, for their European and American markets. They quite obviously don’t want you or me to know, that there’s a »MADE IN MALAYSIA« printed on the back of the R-N800A before we happily unbox it ...

It should be clear to many that you did not do any research or think twice before making this statement.
Sure, this is definitely part of the big Yamaha conspiracy, especially because Yamaha is keeping such a big secret about it
Go to the Yamaha homepage and scroll down: https://my.yamaha.com/index.html
Or go directly to: Yamaha Music Malaysia Facebook
You completely missed that Yamaha is proud of its production in Malaysia and doesn't hide it.

All labels are missing from these images, which are not the same on all delivered devices.
There are 2 reasons for this:
1. The pictures are taken and published with the announcement before the devices come onto the market and often before there is even a series device. Small note: prototype
2. And more importantly, the imprint differs for US and EU or devices for the European continent. You didn't notice that the print for voltage, power and mains frequency, for example, is missing. But that is definitely part of the conspiracy too.

 

[kaffe]

Clean staying above 90 dB SINAD.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/yamaha-r-n803-hi-fi-audio-component-receiver-power-into-8-ohm-audio-measurements-png.67416/

Most manufacturers limit their amplifiers to 1% THD and Yamaha let's those to let's say 10%. Needless to say the review is not complete (some measurements missing) and Volume Trim whosent used so it can behave little better (both feed with embedded DAC and with settings Volume Trim to - 7). Now you need to know two things first you want use 60W program and peeks and distortion of speakers will be there when you do so it will have little impact (cuple % THD of amplifier) there.

What does it mean to use a 60 W program?

Anyway, sounds like I should consider cancelling my order placed on the R-N800A if its amplifier is similar to the one found in an A-S501. Bummer.

 

[ZolaIII]

I mean you will use cuple W program power and peeks on even reference calibration level will have cuple % THD in bass area from speakers theme self anyhow so the same from amplifier won't make a much difference anyway. If you can return it if not satisfied or if it clips take it and try it out it really isn't bad package. Why on earth you don't want to try to find R-S700 or A-S700 in new or mint not used much condition if you can find it and pair it with Flex is beyond my understanding and you don't really, really need Dirac. For stereo and from PC you only need a deacent DAC, REW & mic with EQ APO or JRiver WDM (Windows) along with some patience, experimenting and learning but it's not a PhD.

 

[Golf]

You completely missed that Yamaha is proud of its production in Malaysia and doesn't hide it.

I see. So they tried to make sure that the »MADE IN MALAYSIA« sign can be seen on every backside image, but unfortunately failed with this? You must be kidding ...

 

[Golf]

I should consider cancelling my order placed on the R-N800A

Uhm ... Haven’t you been »very happy« with your decision only hours ago?

 

[Roland68]

What does it mean to use a 60 W program?

Anyway, sounds like I should consider cancelling my order placed on the R-N800A if its amplifier is similar to the one found in an A-S501. Bummer.

You're just drawing the wrong conclusions.
A-S701 and R-N800A have the same power supply and power amplifier. This means that both have the larger power supply compared to the A-S501 and also twice the number of the same power transistors.
The A-S501 already has less power.

 

[ZolaIII]

I see. So they tried to make sure that the »MADE IN MALAYSIA« sign can be seen on every backside image, but unfortunately failed with this? You must be kidding ...

I really, really don't understand what you have against Malaysia? Only the iron core transformers are produced locally there (and they are of a very good quality) and rest is assembled there whilst production is established there very long ago and any possible quality concerns are ironed out (it's not like they moved it out yesterday so you might subjectively have some).

 

[Roland68]

I see. So they tried to make sure that the »MADE IN MALAYSIA« sign can be seen on every backside image, but unfortunately failed with this? You must be kidding ...

Either you didn't understand it or you didn't read it at all.
But it doesn't matter and you are of course right, Yamaha hides the Malaysia production right on the first page of their homepage.
It's really very secret!
And that’s also the joke

 

[Golf]

I really, really don't understand what you have against Malaysia?

I have not the least bit against Malaysia. But I don’t like companies, which for what ever reasons don’t want me to know, where their products are being built.

I see this behavior from Yamaha, I don’t see it from Denon.

 

[kaffe]

You're just drawing the wrong conclusions.
A-S701 and R-N800A have the same power supply and power amplifier. This means that both have the larger power supply compared to the A-S501 and also twice the number of the same power transistors.
The A-S501 already has less power.

I am trying to juggle a bunch of terms I don't know what means. Makes for a lot of confusion on my part, sorry to say.

For example, Yamaha is listing things differently for the two amplifiers.

R-N800A - Specs - Yamaha - Other European Countries

The Yamaha R-N800A delivers music enjoyment with a modern HiFi style. It includes our original YPAO™ technology to create an ideal listening environment. From streaming services to high-resolution sound sources, you can immerse yourself in superb sound quality.

europe.yamaha.com

A-S701 - Specs - Yamaha - Other European Countries

Extremely pure sound quality and outstanding drive power.An integrated amplifier with the advantage of digital input.

europe.yamaha.com

"Rated Output Power" is specified for the R-N800A. Nothing is mentioned about "RMS". For the A-S701 it's vice versa. Does "Rated Output Power" equal "RMS"?

If one can expect the R-N800A to perform similarly to the R-N803, it looks like you are well advised to use Pure Direct only to avoid "much higher noise and distortion": https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/yamaha-r-n803-smart-receiver-review.13830/

Using Pure Direct mode leaves out using the loudness knob and YMAO among other things. In addition the following is mentioned in the user's manual:

• When using Pure Direct, transmissions to the MusicCast Network are not available, except the audio of network content and Bluetooth devices.

So as far as I can tell you can use Pure Direct when streaming to the receiver from an Airplay device via WiFi, but you loose out on other functionality which could've come in handy. While I gather YMAO perhaps isn't very useful and can't replace other room correction software properly, I would miss the loudness control.

If I don't turn on Pure Direct, and under the assumption that the amp performs similarly to the R-N803, I can expect a SINAD of around 72 dB as per Amir's review. That seems pretty bad indeed...

 

[mglobe]

What does it mean to use a 60 W program?

Anyway, sounds like I should consider cancelling my order placed on the R-N800A if its amplifier is similar to the one found in an A-S501. Bummer.

I think you’ve made a solid decision after listening to a lot of advice. Enjoy it!