Amplifier for Focal Kanta Nº2

[Diecastt]

Hello guys, so i am looking for a new amplifier for my Focal Kanta Nº2's and would really appreciate some suggestions.

I tried a Class D amp with HypeX Ncore modules (TEAC AP-701) but they definitely didn't work with the Kanta's. They work really great with sonus faber speakers for example, but with the Kanta's the sound is very forward and thin, clearly lacking in the mids/bass and not enjoyable at all for the type of music i listen to (mostly rock).
I also have the naim uniti nova, which pairs better with the Kanta's, but looking for a bigger soundstage and a less forward sound and also a solution that i can use an external streamer/dac, which the nova doesn't allow.

My budget is about 6K Euros. I have a TEAC UD-701N preamp/dac/streamer, so i do not need a all in one. It can be either an integrated, or a poweramp. I also do not mind buying used, quite the opposite really, if i can get a better value for money.

Really appreciate some suggestions

 

[Mart68]

I have the Electra 926 which are similar to the Kanta 2, the Kanta just being many iterations down the road from the old 926.

Tried lots of power amps and integrateds, best results have been with with Krell (KSA50s) and Neurochorme 686

Mostly rock music here too.

 

[GXAlan]

The TEAC should be an accurate reproduction of the recording. Have you tried Sony Music Center as your software playback device? It’s free and you can try DSEE HX to see if you like the effect. It’s designed for CD audio too, not just lossy compressed audio.

If you have access to home trials, the Marantz PM-10 measures well and has been described by others as being warmer. Marantz has tried to manipulate the audio through a lot of HDAMs and the preamp.

 

[delta76]

Welcome to asr

Assuming your TEAC implementation of hypex is not broken, there is not much you can do regarding your amp. Amp should "sound" transparent and according to its specs it can provide 170+170@8R so plenty of power.

My suggestions are:

- buy (with options to return) or borrow a purifi based amp, it is as good as it gets.
- buy an UMIK-1 microphone and measure your in room response
- try room treatment and EQ your speakers based on your measurements
- see if there is any different between your current amp and purifi. Just to confirm your amp is working properly. If it is, decide which one to keep

You don't need 6k Eur for a great amp, unless if you like something like McIntosh monoblock. But power and performance wise, a purifi based amp costs around 1.5k is your best option. You can't get better than that

 

[Mart68]

Welcome to asr

Assuming your TEAC implementation of hypex is not broken, there is not much you can do regarding your amp. Amp should "sound" transparent and according to its specs it can provide 170+170@8R so plenty of power.

The Kanta 2 is a tough load

Focal Kanta No.2 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

''However, the Kanta No.2's impedance drops below 4 ohms between 80 and 180Hz, with a minimum magnitude of 2.97 ohms at 105Hz (fig.1). In addition, the electrical phase angle has an extremely high value between 70 and 90Hz, where the impedance magnitude is low. This speaker will work best with amplifiers comfortable with a 4 ohm load.''

I agree on paper a Hypex should be adequate but that's true of a few amplifiers I tried with their now 20-odd year old ancestor and only truly load-agnostic amplifiers delivered best quality LF performance.

 

[Overseas]

Have a look at Schiit stuff.
Also Yamaha As3200.
Lots of power with much affordable Roksan K3 - power version available.

 

[delta76]

Maybe to an AVR yes but I have hard time imagining a proper hypex implementation having hard time driving this speakers. Not to absolute max volume at least.

I have no experience with this specific amp, which is why I suggested to try with a purifi based amp.

 

[Diecastt]

I wish i had the possibility of borrowing a Purifi amp, but unfortunately i do not have that option.

The Schiit Tyr Monoblocks are really interesting on paper, and with my budget i could also add the Freya + preamp to get a more "warmer" sound if that was more suitable for me.
However, i never had any schiit products and it is too risky to buy them only for me not to like them for any reason. It's a shame they do not have a try at home policy in Europe like buchardt for example.

As of now the only amplifier i have heard and really liked with the Kanta's was the Luxman L-507Z. In terms of clearness with vocals i never heard anything quite like it. The only fault is that the amplifier is missing a bit of punch (probably the luxman L-509Z will be best of both worlds), but when it launches it's suppose to have a pricing at about 13/14K Euros, so that's out of the equation.
Best scenario for me would be to get something that's similar to the the new luxman Z models in terms of sound signature but at half the price, don't know if that is feasable or not.

 

[NYfan2]

I heard the Kanta no. 2 with a NAD M33, great combination. So I guess Hypex should work.

 

[Diecastt]

Well, i ended up buying the Burson Timekeeper 3X GT monoblocks. A real shot in the dark to be honest, as i wasn't able to listen to them, however, i only bought them because i know if i do not like it, i have a friend who wants to keep them so i do not lose any money. Even though these do not provide a lot of watts (110 at 8 ohms), they are supposed to drive really well tough load speakers. Let's see how it goes when i receive them.

I have also done some more testing, as i also have the Focal Aria 926, and ended up trying them with the TEAC AP-701, and the pair sounds a lot better providing a more bassier/fuller sound, so this actually might be due to the amp not being able to properly deal with the load of the Kanta's.
If the burson's do not work, and since i don't really have the option to try another Purifi/Hypex amp without buying it first, i might actually buy a audiophonics hpa-s600Nc which uses the hypex nc500, which is more powerful to see if that solves the problem.

 

[MaxBuck]

I tried a Class D amp with HypeX Ncore modules (TEAC AP-701) but they definitely didn't work with the Kanta's.

In what way did they not work? Did no sound emerge from the speakers?

 

[Diecastt]

In what way did they not work? Did no sound emerge from the speakers?

I understand your sarcasm, but if you had actually read the the post, the answer is actually in there just a little further... "but with the Kanta's the sound is very forward and thin, clearly lacking in the mids/bass and not enjoyable at all for the type of music i listen to (mostly rock)"

 

[polmuaddib]

I understand your sarcasm, but if you had actually read the the post, the answer is actually in there just a little further... "but with the Kanta's the sound is very forward and thin, clearly lacking in the mids/bass and not enjoyable at all for the type of music i listen to (mostly rock)"

Do you know where you are? This is a science based forum. Without objective proof, measurement of some kind, your statement on your perception of sound has very little merit if any.
Meaning, your dissatisfaction with the sound of your speakers has very little to do with your amplifier, which should be fine. Most likely it is your room, speaker and listening position placement and your mood. Also, speakers themselves could be the culprit.
In this case, a member's sarcasm is not out of place. Sorry.

 

[Diecastt]

Do you know where you are? This is a science based forum. Without objective proof, measurement of some kind, your statement on your perception of sound has very little merit if any.
Meaning, your dissatisfaction with the sound of your speakers has very little to do with your amplifier, which should be fine. Most likely it is your room, speaker and listening position placement and your mood. Also, speakers themselves could be the culprit.
In this case, a member's sarcasm is not out of place. Sorry.

I have to respectfully disagree, specially considering my last post:

I have also done some more testing, as i also have the Focal Aria 926, and ended up trying them with the TEAC AP-701, and the pair sounds a lot better providing a more bassier/fuller sound, so this actually might be due to the amp not being able to properly deal with the load of the Kanta's.

 

[Mart68]

Do you know where you are? This is a science based forum. Without objective proof, measurement of some kind, your statement on your perception of sound has very little merit if any.
Meaning, your dissatisfaction with the sound of your speakers has very little to do with your amplifier, which should be fine. Most likely it is your room, speaker and listening position placement and your mood. Also, speakers themselves could be the culprit.
In this case, a member's sarcasm is not out of place. Sorry.

we have no evidence for this particular situation but unless you are going to argue that all amplifiers will perform optimally into all loads then it remains a possibility that this is the cause of the dissatisfaction.

 

[polmuaddib]

we have no evidence for this particular situation but unless you are going to argue that all amplifiers will perform optimally into all loads then it remains a possibility that this is the cause of the dissatisfaction.

I agree that it could be a possibility.
But unlikely in a way that OP describes it: "the sound is very forward and thin, clearly lacking in the mids/bass and not enjoyable at all for the type of music i listen to (mostly rock)."
OP is describing that he doesn't enjoy the frequency response that he hears. Maybe there is some attack lacking, whatever...
Why assume that the amplifier is the problem? Hypex modules are well documented and praised. Could be poor implementation, but first things first.

 

[Mart68]

I agree that it could be a possibility.
But unlikely in a way that OP describes it: "the sound is very forward and thin, clearly lacking in the mids/bass and not enjoyable at all for the type of music i listen to (mostly rock)."
OP is describing that he doesn't enjoy the frequency response that he hears. Maybe there is some attack lacking, whatever...
Why assume that the amplifier is the problem? Hypex modules are well documented and praised. Could be poor implementation, but first things first.

Totally agree we should not jump to technical conclusions, that's a good way to waste money.

Totally agree that on paper the Hypex should be fine.

But - the description of the sound does mirror my own experience with a Focal loudspeaker that has an almost identical impedance/phase response to the Kanta.

In my case I assumed that the unsatisfactory LF performance was an inherent quality of the speaker. Until I coincidentally impulse-bought a used Krell, hooked it up to the speakers and the problem went away.

As being able to measure exactly what is going on in the OP's system is not a possibility I think that experimentation based on prior experience is not an unacceptable approach.

 

[Diecastt]

I agree that it could be a possibility.
But unlikely in a way that OP describes it: "the sound is very forward and thin, clearly lacking in the mids/bass and not enjoyable at all for the type of music i listen to (mostly rock)."
OP is describing that he doesn't enjoy the frequency response that he hears. Maybe there is some attack lacking, whatever...
Why assume that the amplifier is the problem? Hypex modules are well documented and praised. Could be poor implementation, but first things first.

In my first post, i am open to that possibility, considering that the teac ap-701 is my first class D amplifier, so it was (and still is) a possibility that i do not like the frequency response of accurate reprodution and prefer some sort of distortion. However, if that were the case i probably wouldn't have liked the sound of class D with the sonus faber speakers aswell.

Having said that and after the tests i have made past that, and given that with the Focal Aria's 926 it provides a fuller sound, and that these speakers actually do not go as low as the Kanta's, so it should be the opposite, i believe that at this point the higher probability is the amp not being able to deal with the load of the kanta's.

 

[polmuaddib]

i probably wouldn't have liked the sound of class D

I repeat. You may be in the wrong forum. You might try some classic audiophile forum where people believe all sorts of things make a difference to sound, such as cables, dac chips opamp upgrades etc.
Here you need proof. Either a measurement or well documented, properly conducted double blind test so that you can claim that this amp or that amp sounds like this or that.
Class D or class AB or whatever topology shouldn't sound differently if properly designed and manufactured. If amp is stable at low loads, which Hypex should be, and has lots of power, there is very little chance you would hear a difference between Krell and Hypex in a blind test at normal listening levels.
You will surely hear a difference if you change amps and know which one is playing because of your bias.
Many, many threads here are dedicated to what I am saying here and you would do well to read some, because there are members here with far more knowledge on the subject then me and could explain it all better.

 

[Diecastt]

I repeat. You may be in the wrong forum. You might try some classic audiophile forum where people believe all sorts of things make a difference to sound, such as cables, dac chips opamp upgrades etc.
Here you need proof. Either a measurement or well documented, properly conducted double blind test so that you can claim that this amp or that amp sounds like this or that.
Class D or class AB or whatever topology shouldn't sound differently if properly designed and manufactured. If amp is stable at low loads, which Hypex should be, and has lots of power, there is very little chance you would hear a difference between Krell and Hypex in a blind test at normal listening levels.
You will surely hear a difference if you change amps and know which one is playing because of your bias.
Many, many threads here are dedicated to what I am saying here and you would do well to read some, because there are members here with far more knowledge on the subject then me and could explain it all better.

You have just distorted my post by quoting a single sentence. So again, i provide full context.

"considering that the teac ap-701 is my first class D amplifier, so it was (and still is) a possibility that i do not like the frequency response of accurate reprodution and prefer some sort of distortion"

I believe you already made your assumption that i am a snake oil person, probably because i am new to this forum, as you constantly like to point out and with that, you have also made your assumption regarding this situation, being that what i am hearing lies on me, period.

After i first got the TEAC and was left extremely disappointed, my first possibility was me prefering some sort of distortion, and that to be the likely cause, so to actually try and confirm it all the testing i have made either with the TEAC AP-701 and the uniti nova with the Kanta's, and after that with the Arias 926, were blind testing, with my girlfriend changing the setup, so to cut as much as i could the possibility of a placebo effect.
So again, even with all this, there is still a possibility that i do prefer some sort of distortion, but at this stage, it definitely is not the higher probability.