Amplifier Choice for Triangle Borea BR08: Burson vs Atoll vs Audiolab

[Martin Rony]

Thank you all for the fantastic insights and for sharing your experiences! It’s really interesting to see the different perspectives, especially regarding how we sometimes over-spec or over-worry about speaker loads in the audiophile world.

@Ropeburn – You make an excellent and grounding point. Looking at it objectively, you're absolutely right; they behave much more like a standard 4-Ohm speaker with decent efficiency. I suppose coming from the Audiolab 6000A, which was clearly running out of steam during dynamic bass passages, made me hyper-focus on current delivery and impedance drops. But it's reassuring to know that the BR08 isn't an exotic monster to drive, and the Burson has more than enough headroom to handle it without breaking a sweat.

To answer the question about my source and signal path, here is what I am currently running:

* Streamer/Source: Bluesound Node (N130) streaming Qobuz, as well as accessing my local library of downloaded High-Resolution audio files stored on a network share (NAS/PC).
* Signal Path: Bluesound Node (N130) -> USB-A to USB-C cable -> Burson Timekeeper 3i Reference (utilizing its internal Sabre DAC).
* Speaker Cables: QED Silver Anniversary XT.

Given my playlist consists heavily of Indian Classical, Ghazals, and Blues, I am really after that organic decay and vocal texture.

Based on the advice here, I’m going to stick with Low Gain since the BR08s are efficient enough and I want to keep the noise floor as pristine as possible. I will also spend some time playing with the Linear Phase Slow vs. Fast filters to see if my ears can pick up any subtle differences in the treble roll-off with 44.1kHz tracks.

Also, I completely agree with the advice on speaker positioning and room acoustics. I'll focus on fine-tuning their placement in the room next, as that will likely yield the biggest jump in tonal accuracy.

Thanks again for the guidance, everyone!
Martin Rony

 

[Paul7777x]

Should you ever wish to try room correction ( and, imo, you really should) then either of these will be an improvement on an untreated room.

miniDSP Flex

Pocket size processor with flexible Input/Output configuration, Audiophile converters, 400MHz Sharc DSP processor, BT connectivity, DSP toolbox for subwoofer and multiway crossover, Dirac Live optional upgrade

www.minidsp.com

Anti-Mode X2 | DSPeaker

www.dspeaker.com

Both of the above are digital output if you’d prefer to keep using the amps dac.

You can also add Dirac, should you choose, to the Flex.

The Antimode is as plug and play as it gets.

Just getting rid of bass humps is a massive step toward the clarity and accuracy you’re after.

 

[Martin Rony]

Sorry, but I have to add: What you describe about the sound differences between the Audiolab and the Burson does not make sense. There is only a very mild difference in power (75 vs. 100 W into 4 Ω or about 1 dB peak SPL) and there is no significant difference in other parameters like THD or noise. In a controlled blind test, I would bet that you could not differentiate between these amps.

The Burson is also not a class A amplifier - only the headphone section is. The speaker section is a regular class AB design. Not that it matters - amplifier classes do not possess an inherent sound. But audiophiles always gush about class A and this is a prime example of amp classes not mattering in an (involuntary) blind test. Also, all the rest about "musicality" and "sound stage" is not something an amplifier can affect. Sound stage is a property of the recording, influenced by you speakers and room. It can also be altered by EQ or DSP effects. None of this should be touched by any competent amp.

I get it, you've bought a new amp. It looks cool, came with nice accessories and you're happy and listening to your music, pushing the volume and maybe having a cool beer. Your brain tells you that this is feeling good. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't mean it sounds any different at all, though. Once you discover how testing audio stuff correctly makes almost all those perceived differences vanish, you can simply be just as happy and save all the money for future expensive upgrades which don't improve the sound.

Fair points, and I completely respect the strict objectivist approach of this forum. I appreciate you keeping me grounded regarding the specs and the actual Class-AB implementation of the speaker section!

However, my comparison with the Audiolab 6000A wasn't just based on subtle tonal nuances, but on very real operational limitations in my specific setup. In fact, my very first thread on this forum was precisely about wanting to replace my amplifier because the Audiolab 6000A just couldn't provide the high headroom and dynamic grip I needed for my speakers.

The 6000A is rated at 50W into 8 Ohms, and in my room, during high-volume sessions with heavy bass segments, it would literally run out of breath, lose control over the woofers, and eventually clip to the point of triggering its protection mode and restarting.

Just to clarify on the specifications, the Burson Timekeeper 3i Reference is actually rated at 100W into 8 Ohms, which effectively doubles the power of the Audiolab. Under real-world loads, this jump from 50W to 100W has made a massive practical difference for me:

1. **Headroom & Stability:** Where the Audiolab would clip and shut down, the Burson handles the exact same tracks at high volumes effortlessly. Having that extra headroom means the system remains stable and composed without any safety cut-offs.
2. **Low-Volume Detail:** One of the most noticeable improvements is how full and detailed the sound is even at much lower volume levels compared to my previous amp, which required being pushed harder to feel engaging.
3. **Presentation:** To my ears, the overall presentation feels less dry, offering a more enjoyable and fatigue-free listening experience over long sessions, with what perceives as a more spacious soundstage.

I completely agree that placebos and the excitement of new gear are real things. But in this case, the shift from an amplifier that physically couldn't sustain the load to one that handles it with ease is a very tangible, objectively trackable upgrade for my daily listening.

Always good to have a healthy debate, and I appreciate your perspective!

 

[RandomEar]

Ahh, I looked at the 4 Ω power because I thought the speakers were 4 Ω with a dip to 3. In any case, for that critical dip, the 4 Ω rating is more relevant. So the peak SPL difference is somewhere between a bit over 1 db (assuming the 4 Ω rating being more relevant) and at best 3 dB (assuming 8 Ω being more relevant). That's really not a lot. The amplifier running into protection and powering off is a severe problem, though. In such a situation, my general advice is to at least quadruple the output power of the amp. Because if you're over the limit already, adding 3 dB of headroom (double the power) is still cutting it real close.

I agree that if your amp turned off before when pushing it, the new amp is a clear improvement regardless of other perceived qualities. But I encourage you to look into blind testing and understanding how bias forms perception. Because as I said, "sound stage" is not something an amp can really affect, unless EQ or DSP are used. Theoretically, if you had a bad tube amp and speakers with severely different impedance curves, you could luck out and alter it somehow. Modern transistor and chip amps however offer very low output impedance across the audible spectrum, which means they do not alter the frequency reponse of your speakers. In consequence, they can't affect the sound stage or other perceived qualities like "resolution", "vocals" or whatever else you may want to list.

In the end, comparing HiFi devices with a long time in between listening to them (minutes or hours) and not level-matched results in impressions whcih are simply not aligned with the actual performances. Have a look at this blind test from the 80s (p. 78ff). "Night and day differences" tended to vanish in proper controlled testing as far back as 40 years ago.


Also, it would be very nice of you to disclose that you're using ChatGPT for your posts.

 

[rjp]

I am really enjoying this 9000P amp so far. Still waiting for the Buckeye Purifi 2ch to arrive.

Then the testing begins.

Just in case anyone is interested. I have been listening to both the Class AB Audiolab 9000p and the Class D Buckeye 2ch Purifi 1ET6525SA side by side for a couple weeks now.
I installed a remote controlled A/B switch and balanced the power levels to match.

I would say they sound remarkably similar. Sometimes I cannot even tell when they switch. However, there is a subtle difference, and honestly I cannot yet say I like one better than the other. I realize that based on everything measurable they "should" sound identical, they do not.

If I were to try to describe the difference, I'd say the Audiolab has slightly more bass, however the Buckeye has an interesting bass sound that is "clearer?" somehow than the Audiolab (perhaps by virtue of not being as pronounced?). There is also a vey slight timbre difference on the vocal tone of some material, again neither stands out as better, and both are clear an pleasant.

In any event, they both sound excellent and I would be happy with either one. Any concerns I had of Class D sound compared to AB have been dispelled.

I plan to compare for several more weeks and perhaps over time I will develop a favorite.

 

[Paul7777x]

Fair points, and I completely respect the strict objectivist approach of this forum. I appreciate you keeping me grounded regarding the specs and the actual Class-AB implementation of the speaker section!

However, my comparison with the Audiolab 6000A wasn't just based on subtle tonal nuances, but on very real operational limitations in my specific setup. In fact, my very first thread on this forum was precisely about wanting to replace my amplifier because the Audiolab 6000A just couldn't provide the high headroom and dynamic grip I needed for my speakers.

The 6000A is rated at 50W into 8 Ohms, and in my room, during high-volume sessions with heavy bass segments, it would literally run out of breath, lose control over the woofers, and eventually clip to the point of triggering its protection mode and restarting.

Just to clarify on the specifications, the Burson Timekeeper 3i Reference is actually rated at 100W into 8 Ohms, which effectively doubles the power of the Audiolab. Under real-world loads, this jump from 50W to 100W has made a massive practical difference for me:

1. **Headroom & Stability:** Where the Audiolab would clip and shut down, the Burson handles the exact same tracks at high volumes effortlessly. Having that extra headroom means the system remains stable and composed without any safety cut-offs.
2. **Low-Volume Detail:** One of the most noticeable improvements is how full and detailed the sound is even at much lower volume levels compared to my previous amp, which required being pushed harder to feel engaging.
3. **Presentation:** To my ears, the overall presentation feels less dry, offering a more enjoyable and fatigue-free listening experience over long sessions, with what perceives as a more spacious soundstage.

I completely agree that placebos and the excitement of new gear are real things. But in this case, the shift from an amplifier that physically couldn't sustain the load to one that handles it with ease is a very tangible, objectively trackable upgrade for my daily listening.

Always good to have a healthy debate, and I appreciate your perspective!

The 6000 was never a current monster.

And I suspect it was made as an all in one (that is, dac included) to fill in the cheapest part of the integrated sector for IAG.

And it’s not unknown for budget amps to skimp on the power supply. They are expensive.

It’s not a surprise that anything with a low-ish impedance troubled it at volume.

 

[Martin Rony]

Ahh, I looked at the 4 Ω power because I thought the speakers were 4 Ω with a dip to 3. In any case, for that critical dip, the 4 Ω rating is more relevant. So the peak SPL difference is somewhere between a bit over 1 db (assuming the 4 Ω rating being more relevant) and at best 3 dB (assuming 8 Ω being more relevant). That's really not a lot. The amplifier running into protection and powering off is a severe problem, though. In such a situation, my general advice is to at least quadruple the output power of the amp. Because if you're over the limit already, adding 3 dB of headroom (double the power) is still cutting it real close.

I agree that if your amp turned off before when pushing it, the new amp is a clear improvement regardless of other perceived qualities. But I encourage you to look into blind testing and understanding how bias forms perception. Because as I said, "sound stage" is not something an amp can really affect, unless EQ or DSP are used. Theoretically, if you had a bad tube amp and speakers with severely different impedance curves, you could luck out and alter it somehow. Modern transistor and chip amps however offer very low output impedance across the audible spectrum, which means they do not alter the frequency reponse of your speakers. In consequence, they can't affect the sound stage or other perceived qualities like "resolution", "vocals" or whatever else you may want to list.

In the end, comparing HiFi devices with a long time in between listening to them (minutes or hours) and not level-matched results in impressions whcih are simply not aligned with the actual performances. Have a look at this blind test from the 80s (p. 78ff). "Night and day differences" tended to vanish in proper controlled testing as far back as 40 years ago.


Also, it would be very nice of you to disclose that you're using ChatGPT for your posts.

Fair enough, you caught me! Yes, I am using AI, but primarily as a translator and to help structure my thoughts. English isn't my first language, and I wanted to make sure my technical experiences and layout details were translated clearly and politely for the forum.

I really appreciate the deep dive into the math and the blind testing links. You're absolutely right that going from 50W to 100W is structurally close if the speaker demands a massive swing, but thankfully, just resolving that severe clipping and protection-mode issue has been a massive relief for my daily listening.

I completely understand the objective viewpoint regarding volume-matching, bias, and how modern transistor amps measure. While we might look at the nuances of "soundstage" and "texture" a bit differently, I genuinely welcome the reality check and the wealth of knowledge you've shared.

Thanks for the great discussion and for keeping it constructive! I'll definitely give that 80s blind test article a read. Cheers!

 

[Martin Rony]

The 6000 was never a current monster.

And I suspect it was made as an all in one (that is, dac included) to fill in the cheapest part of the integrated sector for IAG.

And it’s not unknown for budget amps to skimp on the power supply. They are expensive.

It’s not a surprise that anything with a low-ish impedance troubled it at volume.

You are absolutely correct. I faced the issues you mentioned. Burson is my current situation but not parmanent. It has very good DAC&Pre amp section. So I have option to add power amp. I hope I'll get your advices.
Thanks again

 

[Ropeburn]

I would say they sound remarkably similar. Sometimes I cannot even tell when they switch. However, there is a subtle difference, and honestly I cannot yet say I like one better than the other. I realize that based on everything measurable they "should" sound identical, they do not.

Honestly, if even the perceived difference is that small with you struggling to even hear it, it really doesn't matter. I guarantee you the producers making your favourite music twisting one knob slightly will make a much bigger, real difference. Or moving your speakers 10cm back and forth. Or moving your head. Sometimes I get excited and lean forward on the couch. The difference is drastic. Room modes and stuff.

You can of course nerd out over gear and keep testing, it's fun for many of us. But in the end... blast some music!

 

[Martin Rony]

Honestly, if even the perceived difference is that small with you struggling to even hear it, it really doesn't matter. I guarantee you the producers making your favourite music twisting one knob slightly will make a much bigger, real difference. Or moving your speakers 10cm back and forth. Or moving your head. Sometimes I get excited and lean forward on the couch. The difference is drastic. Room modes and stuff.

You can of course nerd out over gear and keep testing, it's fun for many of us. But in the end... blast some music!

Everything is going fine for me. But one thing is Burson gets hot when running. So set two 120 mm fans one is for push and other is for pull the air. I have connected them through a power bank, the fan's noise is extremely low.

 

[Ropeburn]

Everything is going fine for me. But one thing is Burson gets hot when running. So set two 120 mm fans one is for push and other is for pull the air. I have connected them through a power bank, the fan's noise is extremely low.

Ouch. In my opinion, amp that needs that at standard room temperature is broken by design and needs better cooling.

Is that a preventive measure or does it actually get too hot? Overheating, protection, etc.?

 

[Redacted]

I really don't get how so many people call speakers like these "significant impedance drops" and worry about current delivery and all. They drop to 3 Ohm, the only significant thing here is the difference to the nominal 8 Ohm rating which is false, they're just 4 Ohm speakers. Fairly efficient too, rated 92dB so maybe 90 in reality. Very very regular.

That's an easy load for any proper amplifier that isn't exactly a weak arse AVR with tiny PSU. No need to worry here, you do NOT need a 500W amp that does 40A. 100-200W amp and you're set for house parties.

And when we talk about any speaker dropping to 2 or 3 ohms, it's worth saying at what frequencies... I mean - how many milliamps are being pumped out at 10-15khz anyway? If you have 2-3 ohms at say bass guitar low E at 43Hz, then you'll need an amp that can handle it especially at parties. Or on Fridays.

And why no mention of a good class D amp?

 

[RandomEar]

I have found a single review which measured the FR and impedance of the BR08:

TRIANGLE BOREA BR08 Review - Gallic charm « 7Review

The Borea BR8 floorstanding loudspeaker from Triangle of France charms Noel Keywood. Read our TRIANGLE BOREA BR08 Review.

7review.com

Using a tool to extract the data from the tiny, tiny graph at the end the impedance dips down to 2.0 Ohms at 114 Hz and stays below 3 Ohms from at least 90 to 235 Hz. At 1 kHz it's 8.1 Ohms, so the nominal impedance is correct - the minimum seems to be quite a bit lower than specced, though.

 

[Ropeburn]

I have found a single review which measured the FR and impedance of the BR08:

TRIANGLE BOREA BR08 Review - Gallic charm « 7Review

The Borea BR8 floorstanding loudspeaker from Triangle of France charms Noel Keywood. Read our TRIANGLE BOREA BR08 Review.

7review.com

Using a tool to extract the data from the tiny, tiny graph at the end the impedance dips down to 2.0 Ohms at 114 Hz and stays below 3 Ohms from at least 90 to 235 Hz. At 1 kHz it's 8.1 Ohms, so the nominal impedance is correct - the minimum seems to be quite a bit lower than specced, though.

Haha wow, they measured 92dB efficiency. Nice!

Means that under 3 Ohm load is negligible. If at 2.83V they already do 92dB overall, that's 1.4A and ~4W at those frequencies. Easy peasy load.

And no, the 8 Ohm rating is still false. Convention says thou shalt not drop more that 20% below nominal. They're actually nominal 3 Ohm speakers. Lol. Still benign because high efficiency.

The article itself says 40W is enough for party. Good news for any amplifier except 5W tube amps.

 

[rjp]

Honestly, if even the perceived difference is that small with you struggling to even hear it, it really doesn't matter. I guarantee you the producers making your favourite music twisting one knob slightly will make a much bigger, real difference. Or moving your speakers 10cm back and forth. Or moving your head. Sometimes I get excited and lean forward on the couch. The difference is drastic. Room modes and stuff.

You can of course nerd out over gear and keep testing, it's fun for many of us. But in the end... blast some music!

For me, the most enjoyable part of the hobby is tweaking stuff and discovering differences in sound. So I’m actually loving this part! I do blast some music though. Buckeye definitely has the edge on power, 180 vs 105 Wrms into 8 ohms makes a difference.

 

[Morinor]

I’d suggest the Aune is at least superfluous. The preamp in the A8 is likely be indistinguishable.

It is not. Α8 is very accurate indeed. Aune adds at least some richness due to the additional harmonics, that I personally like better. It sounds similar with Lab 12 Pre1, a tube preamp, that I tried. It is not warmth that is added so much, as this perceivable expansiveness, especially on the vocals. It is like potatoes. They can be good raw, but with some salt they can taste better. Too much salt and they are not eatable. I am searching though for a better non neutral preamp. I do not want to diverge the thread, but adding "flavor" to very neutral components can be interesting for some, especially those that despise "flat" or "analytical" sound as they say.

 

[xlinknz]

I also have Triangle speakers, older floorstanding models than yours.
I used them with a Simaudio Moon amplifier and now with a Class D amplifier: no complaints whatsoever.

The most important thing is to optimize the acoustics of the listening room and the placement of the speakers.
The choice of an amplifier is secondary.
It will sound good in a controlled environment and less so if it isn't.

I agree. As much as I'd like to think my class AB amps make a difference the biggest audible difference I have had without headphones for my setup is getting proper stands (Triangle S01) that allow correct height and toe in for my listening position. The only bigger difference was the headphones (HD560s) themselves from a DAC/headphone amp

 

[RandomEar]

It is not. Α8 is very accurate indeed. Aune adds at least some richness due to the additional harmonics, that I personally like better. It sounds similar with Lab 12 Pre1, a tube preamp, that I tried. It is not warmth that is added so much, as this perceivable expansiveness, especially on the vocals. [...]

The Aune looks like a 100% transparent headphone amp. The manufacturer even published the measurements on their website: -112 dB THD and imperceptible noise. Low output impedance, flat FR. I'm sounding like a broken record here, but there is nothing special about class A and there is no magic required to reproduce voltage over time with sufficient bandwidth for audio at a couple of Milliwatts.

 

[rjp]

It is not. Α8 is very accurate indeed. Aune adds at least some richness due to the additional harmonics, that I personally like better. It sounds similar with Lab 12 Pre1, a tube preamp, that I tried. It is not warmth that is added so much, as this perceivable expansiveness, especially on the vocals. It is like potatoes. They can be good raw, but with some salt they can taste better. Too much salt and they are not eatable. I am searching though for a better non neutral preamp. I do not want to diverge the thread, but adding "flavor" to very neutral components can be interesting for some, especially those that despise "flat" or "analytical" sound as they say.

I like this “searching for a better non neutral preamp” idea. I think it makes good sense to have a power amp that is just raw clean power, and use the preamp to color the sound including any equalization and room correction. Tubes can be very nice.

 

[Martin Rony]

And when we talk about any speaker dropping to 2 or 3 ohms, it's worth saying at what frequencies... I mean - how many milliamps are being pumped out at 10-15khz anyway? If you have 2-3 ohms at say bass guitar low E at 43Hz, then you'll need an amp that can handle it especially at parties. Or on Fridays.

And why no mention of a good class D amp?

Ouch. In my opinion, amp that needs that at standard room temperature is broken by design and needs better cooling.

Is that a preventive measure or does it actually get too hot? Overheating, protection, etc.?

No, it's a protection only. In my country (Bangladesh)its summer season now. My room temparature is avarage 38° celcius during day time. Though Burson is highly biased class A and it has Class A Headphone Amplifier, it draws high current all time even remain idle. So as per my condition it's essential extra cooling system.
Thanks