• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Amphion vs Genelec

EPC

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Messages
80
Likes
9
#1
I’m looking to get a new set of mixing monitors and I’m stuck between Amphion One18 or Genelec 8340 (with GLM).

There are nothing but good reviews and specs out there on the Genelecs! In conjunction with GLM it feels like they would be a really solid choice, compared to most speakers at that price point.

The Amphions bring the problem...
People that like the Amphions really rave about how grey they are, more than I’ve seen people talk about any other speaker if I’m honest; a few mixers I look up to use them also.
I’ve never used a passive pair of monitors, but I imagine them to have a very unrestricted sound. Whatever that means...

The downside is that I’ve seen some people really bash them, saying they are all hype and they aren’t as great as people make out.
The specs from people’s measurements don’t look all that flat either...

I’m hoping someone here has experienced both pairs and can point me in the right direction!

Also, can someone explain what is meant by a natural sounding speaker?
 

dfuller

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
974
Likes
1,164
#2
The way I (and many others) would describe Amphions is more or less "NS10s, if NS10s had bottom end". They're not flat, but they have some very useful characteristics for mixing (namely, that they make you focus on midrange balance).
 

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
3,455
Likes
4,730
#3
Based on the measurements I've seen, generally speaking, Genelecs are objectively superior speakers. All that really means, though, is that most people will prefer them over Amphion under blind conditions. "Most" doesn't mean all, though, and some folks will undoubtedly prefer the more uneven response of Amphion monitors.
 
OP
E

EPC

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Messages
80
Likes
9
Thread Starter #4
Do the Amphions have any sonic benefit over the Genelecs?
The crossover is low, and they use passive radiators. Does that really mean much compared to a calibrated Genelec?

Also, do passive monitors hold any sonic benefit over active monitors?
 

dfuller

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
974
Likes
1,164
#5
Based on the measurements I've seen, generally speaking, Genelecs are objectively superior speakers. All that really means, though, is that most people will prefer them over Amphion under blind conditions. "Most" doesn't mean all, though, and some folks will undoubtedly prefer the more uneven response of Amphion monitors.
Yeah, like for listening I'd take Genelecs any day of the week, but for mixing I'd take Amphions first.

Do the Amphions have any sonic benefit over the Genelecs?
The crossover is low, and they use passive radiators. Does that really mean much compared to a calibrated Genelec?

Also, do passive monitors hold any sonic benefit over active monitors?
low crossover has some tradeoffs. It means the bass driver behaves better in its upper range (i.e. less directive) but it can often run the tweeters in a range they're relatively unhappy, depending on the design. Passive radiators don't have tube resonances like a reflex port but otherwise offer little benefit over a port, generally.

As far as passive vs active... No, not really.
 
Last edited:

Hephaestus

Active Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
181
Likes
334
Location
Rapture
#6
Do the Amphions have any sonic benefit over the Genelecs?
The crossover is low, and they use passive radiators. Does that really mean much compared to a calibrated Genelec?

Also, do passive monitors hold any sonic benefit over active monitors?
1. Based on measurements - they don’t. Amphions are coloured speakers. I have heard many models over the last 20 years and didnt like them.

2. According to Toole active monitors are the future... (Presentation available on Youtube)
 

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
3,455
Likes
4,730
#7
Yeah, like for listening I'd take Genelecs any day of the week, but for mixing I'd take Amphions first.
I just listen for enjoyment, so that's where my advice is coming from.

That said, I would think most would mix best on super flat monitors like Genelec, Neumann, or Barefoot. Perhaps if one's brain has gotten used to a less neutral sound it could change things. Purely guessing, though, since I have zero professional experience.
 

dfuller

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
974
Likes
1,164
#8
I just listen for enjoyment, so that's where my advice is coming from.

That said, I would think most would mix best on super flat monitors like Genelec, Neumann, or Barefoot. Perhaps if one's brain has gotten used to a less neutral sound it could change things. Purely guessing, though, since I have zero professional experience.
The obviously colored speakers are a "sanity check"/"translation check" thing because so many consumer speakers are, as we've seen very clearly from many of Amir's reviews, not very flat. Something that sounds good on a very flat speaker often times sounds pretty bad on one that isn't.
 
OP
E

EPC

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Messages
80
Likes
9
Thread Starter #10
The obviously colored speakers are a "sanity check"/"translation check" thing because so many consumer speakers are, as we've seen very clearly from many of Amir's reviews, not very flat. Something that sounds good on a very flat speaker often times sounds pretty bad on one that isn't.
Are you familiar which has a better transient response?
I find I get that ‘3D’ effect when a speaker has a quick response, e.g ribbon tweeters
 
Joined
May 5, 2020
Messages
18
Likes
23
#11
Got my Amphion One15s (punchier and what I feel better for mixing than the One18s) a few weeks back and I wouldn't want to mix on anything else. I was impressed when I first heard them and now I don't understand how I could ever mix without them, if it sounds good on the Amphions then it's well mixed. They are NOT enjoyable in a classical sense though, One18s are far more pleasing to the ear and probably better for mastering.
 

andreasmaaan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
6,652
Likes
9,033
#12
Do the Amphions have any sonic benefit over the Genelecs?
The crossover is low, and they use passive radiators. Does that really mean much compared to a calibrated Genelec?

Also, do passive monitors hold any sonic benefit over active monitors?
The short answer is no. All else equal, the advantages of active design generally outweigh the disadvantages.

I explained the main advantages of active speakers in detail here.

There aren't really any disadvantages of active speakers per se. The only possible disadvantage I can come up with is that, for a given budget on electronics, it must stretch further in an active design (as it must include additional amplifier channels and in most cases a DSP). Fortunately, though, electronics, if competently designed and sufficiently powerful, do not introduce audible noise or distortion, and needn't be expensive to perform pefectly (from an audibility perspective).

As to the lower crossover on the Amphion, this will result in less off-axis cancellation in the vertical plane, which may be sonically beneficial, particularly in an environment in which vertical reflections are not absorbed at mid and high frequencies. The disadvantage will be higher nonlinear distortion (all else equal).

Here's a comparison of the vertical polar responses of the two speakers you're looking at (not quite to scale):

1611829120500.png


The differences resulting from the passive radiator of the One18 vs the bass-reflex enclosure of the 8340 are not so clear cut. Bass-reflex enclosures are harder to get right in two-way speakers, but it does seem that Genelec excels in this aspect of speaker design, so I wouldn't expect problems from the 8340. One advantage of the Genelec having an active design is that frequencies below the port tuning frequency are filtered out, resulting in lower disortion (all else equal) than from a passive PR design like the One18.

As to general differences, the others who've posted here are right. The 8340 is a significantly more neutral/accurate speaker. In choosing a primary monitoring speaker, I would generally make accuracy my primary consideration.
 

dfuller

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
974
Likes
1,164
#13
Bass-reflex enclosures are harder to get right in two-way speakers
It seems they're harder to get right in general. Mitigating port resonances in the midrange seems to be quite the task and one most manufacturers are not up to. Passive radiators don't have that problem, which is nice... But, they don't "behave more like a sealed cabinet" like some would have you believe, either.

In choosing a primary monitoring speaker, I would generally make accuracy my primary consideration.
Agreed on this - which, interestingly enough, is why I personally wouldn't choose anything from the 8XX0 line. They in my experience are a little too smooth and pleasant on the top end (and a bit boomy in the bottom end) to judge mixes on accurately. You can fix this with EQ from a miniDSP or something easily enough, but I wouldn't want to run them without.
 

andreasmaaan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
6,652
Likes
9,033
#14
Agreed on this - which, interestingly enough, is why I personally wouldn't choose anything from the 8XX0 line. They in my experience are a little too smooth and pleasant on the top end (and a bit boomy in the bottom end) to judge mixes on accurately. You can fix this with EQ from a miniDSP or something easily enough, but I wouldn't want to run them without.
Interesting observation. I haven't looked much at the 83X0 line. At a glance they measure far smoother and quite a bit flatter than the Amphion, but yeh, perhaps not the most accurate in the Genelec line.

Hard to see in the measurements though why they'd be overly smooth up top. They look essentially flat on-axis and to have pretty wide, constant directivity in the top octaves, with a bit of a narrowing of directivity in the upper-midrange:

1611850156534.png


What do you think it is that gives them this apparent quality?

It seems they're harder to get right in general. Mitigating port resonances in the midrange seems to be quite the task and one most manufacturers are not up to.
Yeh, this is exactly why they work so much better in three-way designs, where they don't reproduce frequencies at which the port would otherwise resonate and/or at which standing waves would form inside the cabinet.

Totally agree re: passive radiators.
 

dfuller

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
974
Likes
1,164
#15
What do you think it is that gives them this apparent quality?
You know, I don't really know. It might be something about the upper bass (like 100-200hz) region that's boosted that gives them that quality. I wish I knew what but man oh man I have never had a mix translate well off this line of speakers.
 

andreasmaaan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
6,652
Likes
9,033
#16
You know, I don't really know. It might be something about the upper bass (like 100-200hz) region that's boosted that gives them that quality. I wish I knew what but man oh man I have never had a mix translate well off this line of speakers.
Interesting. Like I said, haven't mixed on them (I'm pretty sure I would have heard them at some point but can't recall specifically what I thought of them).

Have you mixed using any of the 83X1 series of Genelecs? I've had good results with 8341, both in the sense of the speakers sounding natural, detailed, accurate etc., and in the sense of translating well.
 

YSC

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
1,074
Likes
731
#17
You know, I don't really know. It might be something about the upper bass (like 100-200hz) region that's boosted that gives them that quality. I wish I knew what but man oh man I have never had a mix translate well off this line of speakers.
well, if it's the 100-200hz are you using them with a mixing console in front or using them on desk? if so the desk mode dip switch should help
 

dfuller

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
974
Likes
1,164
#18
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
7
#19
IMO, Amphion should be one of the best monitor for mixing music with vocals, and it is rather enjoyable sounding speaker for pro monitor speaker. The last Genelec I owned was 1031, which used to be ubiquitous, but it seems small Genelecs are no more very popular in US, and I haven't heard any of their recent models. In my impression, low diffraction / round edge monitors tend to be less favorable for mixing.
 
Last edited:

Hephaestus

Active Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
181
Likes
334
Location
Rapture
#20
IMO, Amphion should be one of the best monitor for mixing music with vocals, and it is rather enjoyable sounding speaker for pro monitor speaker. The last Genelec I owned was 1031, which used to be ubiquitous, but it seems small Genelecs are no more very popular in US, and I haven't heard any of their recent models. In my impression, low diffraction / round edge monitors tend to be less favorable for mixing.
Do you have any objective data to back up such claims?
 
Top Bottom