Amp/streamer for KEF R5/7

[Reflux0]

Hi all, I've been a lurker for a few months and am looking to jump in. Currently have a KEF LS50W with an old KEF sub and looking to upgrade. I auditioned the KEF R5 and R7 and am deciding between them. I'm having a hard time deciding on how to drive them.

Usage - 90% music, 10% tv/movies. Most listening at quieter or mid volumes given kids and since it's an apartment. Looking to upgrade because I have an itch and kids are now big enough to know over bookshelves with stands

Usage is simple - either Spotify cast, or Bluetooth for music. Tv is either optical or HDMI arc. Will be 2.0. I had a 5.1 kef system a while ago but 2 is enough.

Room - small about 10x10ft listening square in bigger living room.

I can budget up to $2k. I really value simplicity (e.g. one box if possible). Thinking of Sonos amp, but would be open to other options (Cambridge audio, naim, nad, chifi combos) since I don't want to get bigger speakers that sound worse than my ls50w.

 

[outlookrt]

Lyngdorf TDAI-1120?
I'm looking at it for a similar use case.
Includes room correction & PEQ

 

[ahofer]

Cambridge Audio's streaming technology is easy to use, compatible with..everything..and stable, so one of the EVO series would be perfect, although the 150, with plenty of power headroom, is $3k

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-BlTGrANjoNX/p_779EVO150/Cambridge-Audio-Evo-150.html

Or get one of their streamers second hand, and add an even more powerful and simple amplifier:

https://www.marchaudio.com/p252-hypex-ncore-amplifier (I use this amp)
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-0V5ECDeCq1f/p_779CXNV2G/Cambridge-Audio-CXN-V2-Luna-Grey.html

 

[Kachda]

You can go with minidsp shd power for a one box solution. It has a streamer (volumio), dirac, paramatric eq and a power amp. Yo can also try the nad m10, which is a bit more elegant.

But if you want more power, a minidsp shd with a hypex or purifi based amp will be better, though this is a two box solution

 

[Reflux0]

Thanks for the great ideas, I hadn't been aware of the minidsp and lyngdorf, will do some more reading about them and compare to the Evo.

I'm very wary of these companies all having poor and buggy software since they are hardware at heart, so am looking for a reliable dumb solution where I can reliably use Spotify connect, Bluetooth, etc. vs rely on the app. That's why I was wondering if I'd be better served by buying a cheap chifi streamer and spend more on the amp for better sq? Can upgrade and play with the streamers over time. However, if I go two box, would I always have to manually turn the amp on, or do they always auto wake if there's a signal (eg from the streamer)?

 

[Kachda]

Thanks for the great ideas, I hadn't been aware of the minidsp and lyngdorf, will do some more reading about them and compare to the Evo.

I'm very wary of these companies all having poor and buggy software since they are hardware at heart, so am looking for a reliable dumb solution where I can reliably use Spotify connect, Bluetooth, etc. vs rely on the app. That's why I was wondering if I'd be better served by buying a cheap chifi streamer and spend more on the amp for better sq? Can upgrade and play with the streamers over time. However, if I go two box, would I always have to manually turn the amp on, or do they always auto wake if there's a signal (eg from the streamer)?

If you only want Spotify connect, you can even use a raspberry pi4 with usb connected to a dac. Many rpi4 os support Spotify connect. the advantage of minidsp is in dirac correction and crossovers for subwoofers. Spotify connect also works well on the shd.

regarding two boxes, many preamps have a trigger out and amps have trigger in. Minidsp shd unfortunately does not have trigger out, but the latest version switches on and off its USB When turned on/off ( the last version always had it on). So some people have had success by using the usb as a trigger out (look at the last few pages of minidsp shd review). But yeah it isn’t idiot proof. In my case, i have the older version so i bought a cheap relay with an ir remote from Amazon and use that to trigger the amp.

 

[Reflux0]

Thanks everyone, after doing some more research I think the Lynngdorf or CA Evo may be right for me given usability. Will try to find both, hard to find where I am (HK) and so may take a while.

One question - would the Sonos Amp be a significant downgrade? Should I consider it?

 

[alont]

Seems like the Sonos amp doesn't have room correction or PEQ, so yes it would be quite a significant downgrade.

 

[Reflux0]

Got it, thank you!

 

[Reflux0]

I just wanted to reply here since I've gotten so much help from browsing this forum.

I first tried to do it on the cheap and see how it sounds first. I bought a SMSL DA9 and either used its bluetooth, or the DAC built in to my 2016 LG OLED (headphone out) and then use Spotify or Chromecast to my LG TV. This way let me control the volume through my TV with one remote and have one box. It sounded ok, but to be honest I was expecting to be more blown away by the low end given the size of the speakers (my first floorstanders - I sold my KEF LS50W + Kube 2 sub for these). I was also annoyed at having to keep turning my TV on to listen to music or fiddling with bluetooth and having to manually switch inputs.

I then got a KEF subwoofer (KC62), which really rounded out the low end. My old sub was the Kube 2, so I was blown away by how low this one could go, and also how much less boomy it sounded. Nevertheless, dialogue during TV was a bit hard to hear and I tried the Hifi-Apps Speaker Setup android app to measure my speakers and found a number of sizeable peaks due to my room. I kept reading more about the Lyngdorf and room perfect.... I splurged and got the 1120 and replaced my DA9.

It really is quite a magical product. I didn't know how to explain it before, but after room perfect there is no boomyness at all and it's much easier to understand dialogue at the low volumes I listen to. The soundstage also seems wider. Finally, it's truly a one box solution that supports all of the streaming features without having to turn on my tv. I to be honest probably can't hear any difference between different DACs (TV vs. Lyngdorf vs. DA9's for bluetooth) or amps (DA9 vs. Lyngdorf), but roomperfect + the convenience is great. I also listen to music at ~50db given young kids, and both amps work very well for that.

The software just "works", no issues or hiccups so far.

Thanks for the help, I think I am all set for now!

 

[Bubbles&Bass]

Hey! I’m quite interested in your setup. Thanks for posting! I had a few questions if you don’t mind.. It wasn’t clear to me if you ended up with the R5s or 7s? I have recently purchased the 7s (loving them). I am looking into adding a sub and the kc62 was on my shortlist. I was curious on how it would pair with a larger speaker such as the R7s. I haven’t seen many reviews with them paired with a larger speaker, let alone the 7s. 100% music for me.

The leading reason I’m considering the kc62 is because of its compact size. I have the speakers in my living room and I’m trying to have the complements blend in as much as possible while doing my best to achieve my audio nirvana. Room correction is on my list too. I have zero audio technical ability so I’m not certain this would be the best investment ($ and time spent learning). Open living room with vaulted ceilings and some windows. I feel good that my room is a good candidate for RC. But in your opinion, do you think it made a sizable difference? I know there’s a ton of variables and a lot of subjectiveness. I guess I’m worried the difference is marginal for the average listener / audiophile-wannabe.

Thanks!

 

[tifune]

Hey! I’m quite interested in your setup. Thanks for posting! I had a few questions if you don’t mind.. It wasn’t clear to me if you ended up with the R5s or 7s? I have recently purchased the 7s (loving them). I am looking into adding a sub and the kc62 was on my shortlist. I was curious on how it would pair with a larger speaker such as the R7s. I haven’t seen many reviews with them paired with a larger speaker, let alone the 7s. 100% music for me.

The leading reason I’m considering the kc62 is because of its compact size. I have the speakers in my living room and I’m trying to have the complements blend in as much as possible while doing my best to achieve my audio nirvana. Room correction is on my list too. I have zero audio technical ability so I’m not certain this would be the best investment ($ and time spent learning). Open living room with vaulted ceilings and some windows. I feel good that my room is a good candidate for RC. But in your opinion, do you think it made a sizable difference? I know there’s a ton of variables and a lot of subjectiveness. I guess I’m worried the difference is marginal for the average listener / audiophile-wannabe.

Thanks!

My living room matches your description. If you check my post history you'll find a big writeup from a few days back showing how I did it all. I built it around Auro upmixing. Given your use case, The KF92 is not much more in cost or size. I've never found any comprehensive independent measurements, but if you're trying to stay within Kef's borders that's where I would start (even if it means waiting a bit to save more).

I often wonder, though, if I find a ridiculous sale on 2x KC62, could I mix them with R3 and build my own "R9"? Not really worth it in terms of price/performance but could have some good visual appeal in a situation like you describe.

And yes, room correction is worth every $ but like all matters of convenience, software is usually not as effective as physical treatment

 

[Bubbles&Bass]

Thanks for your response. I saw the pictures and quite impressed with your setup.

I’ll take a closer look into the KF92. I don’t necessarily need to stay in the Kef ecosystem.

I am looking into DDRC-24 RC. It appears to be the easiest way to get room correction and keep the footprint small. It seem Room Perfect may be a bit more user friendly but keeping the footprint and costs in mind, the Minidsp seems to be my best choice. Is there anything that I might be missing?

 

[tifune]

Thanks for your response. I saw the pictures and quite impressed with your setup.

I’ll take a closer look into the KF92. I don’t necessarily need to stay in the Kef ecosystem.

I am looking into DDRC-24 RC. It appears to be the easiest way to get room correction and keep the footprint small. It seem Room Perfect may be a bit more user friendly but keeping the footprint and costs in mind, the Minidsp seems to be my best choice. Is there anything that I might be missing?

For a 2.2 setup, the MiniDSP lineup does tend to be the best value not only on cost but the huge amount of support you could get from both MiniDSp and Dirac + community. If you already own room perfect, of course start with that and see what your pain points are.

Kef's subs are good, just not great. You're paying a LOT for aesthetics. Rythmik tends to be a favorite around these parts, but SVS often can provide better price/performance simply because they're so much bigger they can afford to offer a lot of sales, open box, refurb, scratch & dent, etc. options. Hsu and Monolith tend to swing the other way from Kef, great performance per $ but total failure on the WAF score (if that matters to you)

If you're space constrained, some say subs with dual opposing drivers minimize vibration to the extent they can be used as end tables. so, that could be another point towards the Kef and some rythmik or arendal models. (I've never owned dual-opposing myself)

 

[Bubbles&Bass]

Thanks for your input on the minidsp - I’ll most likely go this route. I really hope this helps.

My Kefs are being powered by the Marantz Model 30. I have had them for about a month now. I am enjoying the combination but I know there is room for improvement. There seems to be an echo / hollowness from the speakers (if that makes sense). This hollowness has become more evident as of late. I’m certain room treatments could help solve this. I know this is true because, well, once we took down all of our Christmas decorations and tree… voila, the problem
appeared. Aesthetics are important so proper sound panels are not really doable. I am hopeful adding window treatments and maybe a few more art pieces on the surrounding walls will help… somewhat recent move in.

What’s a little discouraging is that I did some a/b testing today with the R7s against my Q350s. I have to say I almost liked my 350s more. Admittedly, the cards were in the 350s favor (optimal room+sub). I know objectively, the 7s are far superior speakers to the 350s... right?! I suppose I was more shocked on what an ideal room and subwoofer can do to a system. The sub is the SVS pb-1000. Ok, maybe I’m not discouraged but let’s say, more motivated to get my 7s tuned in.

If I was to either go with Dirac or a sub, in your opinion - which option do you think would improve my system more?

I have attached some pictures. Ideally I would place the sub next to the right speaker in that corner. So, a smaller footprint sub is needed. Yes, I know the speaker is not level. The damn floors are wonky.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts.

 

[gaburko]

My Kefs are being powered by the Marantz Model 30.

Sorry to jump on your thread with a side question. How do you find the kombo of Marantz Model 30 and the KEFs? I've been eyeing this amp for a while, but not yet pulled the trigger for my KEFs

 

[Bubbles&Bass]

Sorry to jump on your thread with a side question. How do you find the kombo of Marantz Model 30 and the KEFs? I've been eyeing this amp for a while, but not yet pulled the trigger for my KEFs

I think it sounds great. I have not been able to get enough critical listening sessions in to have a strong opinion. They’re fun and detailed to listen to. Looking forward to getting them more dialed in.

 

[tifune]

Sorry to jump on your thread with a side question. How do you find the kombo of Marantz Model 30 and the KEFs? I've been eyeing this amp for a while, but not yet pulled the trigger for my KEFs

100W at 8ohm is pretty limp for $3k. I realize it's an integrated, but depending on the type of material and your listening habits there's a pretty good chance you won't be happy with using this amp in the typical listening distance for Kef's floorstanding lineup. It's unfortunate, Marantz tends to market to the worst parts of audiophiles - tuning by golden ears, etc. - and it ends up costing far more than necessary.

Thanks for your input on the minidsp - I’ll most likely go this route. I really hope this helps.

My Kefs are being powered by the Marantz Model 30. I have had them for about a month now. I am enjoying the combination but I know there is room for improvement. There seems to be an echo / hollowness from the speakers (if that makes sense). This hollowness has become more evident as of late. I’m certain room treatments could help solve this. I know this is true because, well, once we took down all of our Christmas decorations and tree… voila, the problem
appeared. Aesthetics are important so proper sound panels are not really doable. I am hopeful adding window treatments and maybe a few more art pieces on the surrounding walls will help… somewhat recent move in.

What’s a little discouraging is that I did some a/b testing today with the R7s against my Q350s. I have to say I almost liked my 350s more. Admittedly, the cards were in the 350s favor (optimal room+sub). I know objectively, the 7s are far superior speakers to the 350s... right?! I suppose I was more shocked on what an ideal room and subwoofer can do to a system. The sub is the SVS pb-1000. Ok, maybe I’m not discouraged but let’s say, more motivated to get my 7s tuned in.

If I was to either go with Dirac or a sub, in your opinion - which option do you think would improve my system more?

I have attached some pictures. Ideally I would place the sub next to the right speaker in that corner. So, a smaller footprint sub is needed. Yes, I know the speaker is not level. The damn floors are wonky.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts.

Well, you can kind of do both. Depending on your budget, you can just buy a measurement mic (UMIK series is most popular), download REW for free, and probably still have sub $ left over. Then revisit later for Dirac. That's assuming the Model 30 has decent EQ? I'm not sure, Ive never owned a marantz. If not, you can get the base model MiniDSP 2x4HD and upgrade it to Dirac-capabke later as budget allows. Costs about 1/2 up front going that route. Make sure you get the HD, though

You're definitely going to get some buildup from that right speaker being in the corner. It always tough having speaker next to glass, I have the same issue in my home office. I don't want to add treatment because sometimes the only thing standing between me and a vociferous emotional outburst leading to unemployment is breathing deep and turning to look at the river peacefully flowing through my backyard .

 

[Bubbles&Bass]

ha HA... "sometimes the only thing standing between me and a vociferous emotional outburst leading to unemployment is breathing deep and turning to look at the river peacefully flowing through my backyard" - this resonates more than you know. My office has large windows too. I have yet to complete my office so no system in it (yet).

I am sitting ~10 ft from the speakers. I feel like I haven't had to push them at all and they are plenty loud and room filling. So, I feel like there is plenty of headroom. What would more wattage provide for me? I definitely do not need them to get any louder.

Thanks.

 

[gaburko]

100W at 8ohm is pretty limp for $3k. I realize it's an integrated, but depending on the type of material and your listening habits there's a pretty good chance you won't be happy with using this amp in the typical listening distance for Kef's floorstanding lineup. It's unfortunate, Marantz tends to market to the worst parts of audiophiles - tuning by golden ears, etc. - and it ends up costing far more than necessary.

I'm currently using a Rega Elicit R which is about the same in terms of power and I almost never reach 12 o'clock on the volume, so in terms of power, for me, 100W seems pretty adequate. But yes, I didn't mention, that I am powering the KEF R3.