Amp Pairing for Focal Sopra N2: Buckeye Purifi (6525A vs 9040) vs. NCx500 in 2.2 Setup

[AudioJester]

Can I suggest you consider ditching the minidsp for something that is Dirac ART ready? It really is a simplified evolution of SOTA DSP

 

[rimmi2002]

Using a calculator conservatively is the way I generally go but 15-20dB?

Thanks. What do you recc'd for SPL at listening level. If I used 15-20bd Headroom that will lead to ridic high Wattage need for amp if I don't change any other variables.

 

[voodooless]

The big deal with number of taps and the accelerators is the steepness of the FIR filters slopes and how low the latency can be (the faster the processor, the shorter the latency).

That’s not how it works. A faster processor does not magically reduce the latency. With the traditional algorithm you’ll have to sequentially go over the whine filter, and thus the delay is about half of the tap size (assuming the impulse is in the middle)

The only way to get the delay lower is with partitioned convolution, where the dealt is about the partition size. It’s a totally different algorithm. Most DSP hardware can’t do this, but a general purpose CPU can.

Thanks. What do you recc'd for SPL at listening level. If I used 15-20bd Headroom that will lead to ridic high Wattage need for amp if I don't change any other variables.

Yeah 20 dB will need 100x the power.

This works if you set your average SPL. Correctly: relatively conservative. I think if you aim for 105 dB or so peak, you should be more than fine.

Just remember that most home hifi speakers will not tolerate these high volumes for long. These included.

 

[delta76]

Thanks you. Really liked the sound of the sopra's when I heard them at a family member's house. I had been looking for months on the used market and pulled the trigger when I finally found something I could manage. They are still not in hand...so anything is still possible. Just trying to plan ahead for other gear that I need, hoping they will arrive at planned.

Given both NCx500 and purifi 6525SA have enough juice for the speakers...can anyone who has listened to both amps comment if purifi's better distortion/SINAS will lead to any real life perceptible audible improvement? if not then perhaps I just buy a 2ch NCxAMP or 3ch to make it more future proof if I ever add a center in future.

Thanks.




Currently I am just running a 5.1 setup with Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2's for LCR running off Onkyo NR7100. No discrete amp. (1st time looking into buying one, have learned a lot from all the research and advice from members of this forum. Thankful there are affordale high quality options available like buckeye.

No basically both purifi and hypex will sound just the same. The difference will be only at instrument level (i.e. like Amir's analyzer) and even then very small and not meaningful. Absolutely no audible difference when played on speakers. Pick one and enjoy

 

[Jiraya369]

People don't listen to music loud enough is the problem.

unless you're amir

 

[Sokel]

Also, don't fill dips down low while RC, we are reading horror stories about trying to "correct" dips using brute force.
Nope.

 

[Svend P]

Some people have money to buy "nice things", because they like the look and they like how they sound. Objectively better means statistically more people will prefer it, but not necessarily everyone will prefer it.
Given he/she is asking about Purifi/hypex and not some absurdly expensive amp that has 50wpc I think he/she has done the research. Let people pick what they like

I totally agree with that. I just don't want the OP to spend 20.000 megabucks on a pair of speakers, thinking they can't be bettered for less money. If it was me, I would probably get a pair of D&D 8C or Genelec Ones and still have money left for a Ferrari 250GTO* and still only have spend half, but getting a overall better sounding system.

*the Bburago 1:24 model, not the real thing sadly.

 

[delta76]

I totally agree with that. I just don't want the OP to spend 20.000 megabucks on a pair of speakers, thinking they can't be bettered for less money. If it was me, I would probably get a pair of D&D 8C or Genelec Ones and still have money left for a Ferrari 250GTO* and still only have spend half, but getting a overall better sounding system.

*the Bburago 1:24 model, not the real thing sadly.

for some (or rather, most) people, look is as important as sound. and people are right to admire how Sopra 2 looks. Sometimes sitting in your living room, looking at it could you you as much happiness as listening to it. And to entertain your guests. and if his/her partner (if there is one) accepts it, even better.

And let's be honest, Sopra 2 is NOT a bad speaker. Could measure worse than some monitor ones but still very good.

I understand your good intentions, but being objective does not mean we have to exchange measurements for personal tastes, and focus solely on the sound

 

[SHDK]

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for community input on the best amplifier pairing for a pair of Focal Sopra N2 speakers. I’m planning to run a 2.2 setup with two Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, using a miniDSP Flex HT for preamp/DSP functions.

My room is roughly 30' x 15' with 11' ceilings (approx. 5,000 cu. ft.), and my primary listening position is about 10–12 feet away from the speakers. I’m primarily considering options from Buckeye Amps, but I have some questions about power vs. performance. My budget is roughly $2k–$3k max, and I’d like to stay in that range unless I’m leaving a significant amount of performance on the table by not spending more.

Current Considerations:

• Purifi 1ET6525SA (2nd Gen): I like the lower price point ($1050 for 2ch vs. $2600 for 2x Monoblocks of 9040BA), but I'm worried if its 230W/ch @ 8Ω will be a limiting factor, especially since I might run a low crossover (around 40-60Hz).
• Purifi 1ET9040BA Monoblocks: These offer the most output (375W @ 8Ω), but they are significantly more expensive. Wondering if the $2600 2 ch cost vs. $1050 will lead to any noticeable improvement in audible performance.
• Hypex NCx500: I believe the power here is plenty (380W/ch @ 8ohm), but I’m wondering if the lower distortion and higher damping of the Purifi modules would pair better with the Sopra's detailed Beryllium tweeter.
• Bryston 4B3: Still on the radar if a used unit pops up at a great price for that classic Class AB synergy. Wondering if anyone can compare how this Bryston can stack up against the Purifi 1ET9040BA or Purifi 1ET6525SA

Specific Questions for the Forum:

1. Is 230W enough for Sopra N2s? Given their 91dB sensitivity but a minimum impedance of 3.1Ω, is the 6525A sufficient for a low crossover setup, or will I run out of headroom during high-dynamic movie peaks?
2. Purifi vs. Hypex NCx500: For critical listening on the Focals, is the superior transparency and micro-dynamic detail of the Purifi 1st/2nd Gen audibly worth the extra power / cost comparter to Purifi 1ET6525SA/1ET9040BA
3. The Budget Sweet Spot: Within a $2k–$3k budget, is there a clear "winner" that maximizes the Sopra's performance, or do I need to step up to the 9040 monoblocks to truly do these speakers justice?

My usage is roughly 60% movies/shows and 40% music videos. I want to ensure the main amp provides the best possible clarity and effortless headroom while the Rythmiks handle the heavy lifting below 60Hz.

Thanks for any insights!

I run a pair of Focal with a min impedance of 2.9 on a Marantz M1. They play in a 21 M2 room. And I think they play really well with only 100w/8 ohm.

I wrote Focal before buying them and they replaced that the Thevas are voiced on a 40w Naim amp.

 

[quattro98]

Using a calculator conservatively is the way I generally go but 15-20dB?

I think it's worth playing around with the calculator to get a feel for it since we're trying to decide how much power is enough. The default 3 dB is silly for home use. I assume the sound reinforcement systems that the calculator is likely geared towards have compressors and limiters in the chain. Only the last example of 85 + 20 gets to 105 dB peaks without clipping. This is well more than I listen to on a regular basis and going down to 100 dB total (say 80 + 20 or 85 + 15) requires a lot less power. The other thing to consider is that most of us are using two (or more) speakers, not just one, so that reduces requirements by 3 dB, bringing the power back to 250 W.

'Headroom' is a measure of the badness of an amplifier. The bigger the number, the worse the amplifier.

When did headroom become the same as peak power? Headroom was always how far over nominal level (0VU) a continuous signal could go before clipping, as in mixing consoles with 20db of headroom. It had nothing to do with peaks. And amps (at least pro amps) never had a headroom/peak power rating...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Chrispy]

I think it's worth playing around with the calculator to get a feel for it since we're trying to decide how much power is enough. The default 3 dB is silly for home use. I assume the sound reinforcement systems that the calculator is likely geared towards have compressors and limiters in the chain. Only the last example of 85 + 20 gets to 105 dB peaks without clipping. This is well more than I listen to on a regular basis and going down to 100 dB total (say 80 + 20 or 85 + 15) requires a lot less power. The other thing to consider is that most of us are using two (or more) speakers, not just one, so that reduces requirements by 3 dB, bringing the power back to 250 W.

'Headroom' is a measure of the badness of an amplifier. The bigger the number, the worse the amplifier.

When did headroom become the same as peak power? Headroom was always how far over nominal level (0VU) a continuous signal could go before clipping, as in mixing consoles with 20db of headroom. It had nothing to do with peaks. And amps (at least pro amps) never had a headroom/peak power rating...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Depends which calculator....

 

[quattro98]

Depends which calculator....

I subtracted 3 dB for dual speakers in the Crown one. The one you posted also has buttons for placement (0 dB, 3 dB, & 6 dB for the options).

In home use, room gain and multiple speakers will reduce the power requirement. For the OP, any of the amps are fine. The other factor here is the use of subs.

 

[Chrispy]

I subtracted 3 dB for dual speakers in the Crown one. The one you posted also has buttons for placement (0 dB, 3 dB, & 6 dB for the options).

In home use, room gain and multiple speakers will reduce the power requirement. For the OP, any of the amps are fine. The other factor here is the use of subs.

The one I linked to is more a peak calculator with given amp power....and to be conservative I usually don't account for boundaries. Just depends what your frame of reference is, whether aiming at peaks of 105dB or average level of 85dB....

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks. What do you recc'd for SPL at listening level. If I used 15-20bd Headroom that will lead to ridic high Wattage need for amp if I don't change any other variables.

Depends on your goals. Really high spl can require very powerful amps....what levels are you listening at? or want to listen at?

 

[rimmi2002]

Can I suggest you consider ditching the minidsp for something that is Dirac ART ready? It really is a simplified evolution of SOTA DSP

Thank do you have any suggestions? I just got it because the review here rated it really well as a preamp. It has HDMI input for audio...hard to find a reasonable priced stereo preamp that will take HDMI audio input. It is expected to be technicallly challenging, but I like that...something new to learn.

However if you feel it is subpar as a DAC (Which I what I need the most of out it) would be great to have other suggestions. Thank you.

 

[AudioJester]

Thank do you have any suggestions? I just got it because the review here rated it really well as a preamp. It has HDMI input for audio...hard to find a reasonable priced stereo preamp that will take HDMI audio input. It is expected to be technicallly challenging, but I like that...something new to learn.

However if you feel it is subpar as a DAC (Which I what I need the most of out it) would be great to have other suggestions. Thank you.

Dirac ART will make way more difference than amplifier or dac choice. Look it up.

If your buying amp from Buckeye - just reach out to him with your requirements/goals, will provide the best options.

The cheapest option for Dirac ART is Denon X3800, but have to factor in Dirac license costs. Use preouts to discrete amp and subwoofers.

Since I wrote that last post, miniDSP has announced an awesome product - the Tide16. Includes Dirac ART licenses in the price and will do everything you want. It really looks awesome!

 

[delta76]

Dirac ART will make way more difference than amplifier or dac choice. Look it up.

If your buying amp from Buckeye - just reach out to him with your requirements/goals, will provide the best options.

The cheapest option for Dirac ART is Denon X3800, but have to factor in Dirac license costs. Use preouts to discrete amp and subwoofers.

Since I wrote that last post, miniDSP has announced an awesome product - the Tide16. Includes Dirac ART licenses in the price and will do everything you want. It really looks awesome!

very overkill for 2.2. and that's without amp.
I'd say x4800h is a better fit. even with ART still cheaper and have 4 sub outs. would say it has enough power to drive Sopra No 2 to more than loud enough level before having to add an external amp.
but well it might not be a good fit in the listening room . at this point style is probably more important

 

[AudioJester]

very overkill for 2.2. and that's without amp.
I'd say x4800h is a better fit. even with ART still cheaper and have 4 sub outs. would say it has enough power to drive Sopra No 2 to more than loud enough level before having to add an external amp.
but well it might not be a good fit in the listening room . at this point style is probably more important

Good point! I have always used the Denons as pre only. The Japanese built x4800 and x6800 are very capable. But can the internal amps really drive Sopra 2 to the levels required? I guess its only 2 channel and the subs are allready reducing load, but then you would still use mains as support.

 

[delta76]

Good point! I have always used the Denons as pre only. The Japanese built x4800 and x6800 are very capable. But can the internal amps really drive Sopra 2 to the levels required? I guess its only 2 channel and the subs are allready reducing load, but then you would still use mains as support.

it can easily provide 150w for 2 channel, and that would get Sopra 2 to be very loud, especially if you cut of at 40Hz for LFE. I could hardly get my x4700h to draw for more than 10w (5 channel total) before my 948s become too loud.