Amp help for Yamaha A1070

[bluefirestarter]

I recently purchased Martin Logan 60XTI, 50XTI and Motion 20i to replace my old Infinity beta speakers. The Yamaha doesn't have the power to drive them to a decent volume without clipping. Decided an amp is the way to go and narrowed it down to the Emotiva XPA-7 or VTV 8 Channel NC502MP. I can't decide which amp to pick and if they would work properly with the a1070 (especially the VTV.) I plan to replace the Yamaha with an Anthem AVM 70 at the end of the year. Do you guys have a suggestion / recommendation? The Yama only supports 4 ohm on the front speakers and 6 on the rest will that make a difference to the amp?

 

[EEE272]

Are you sure your Yamaha is set up correctly? I did not have the 1070 but the 810, 3020 and now 3080. They all work with 8 ohms.

Hold the straight button then press the power button to turn the AVR on. The advanced menu appears on the AVR display. Go in the impedence menu and choose 8 Ohm. Otherwise, you cut your power by almost half.

Then you could check if the Eco Mode is active - that is via the display on-screen menu, then setup, then the Eco tab.
If it is, I would also turn it off, otherwise your power is limited to around 30 Watt.

Maybe one of those settings could help.

 

[FriedChicken]

I got a 2-channel amplifier for my fronts to relieve the burden of my poor rx-a810 powering 7 speakers. I think that will help.

 

[bluefirestarter]

Are you sure your Yamaha is set up correctly? I did not have the 1070 but the 810, 3020 and now 3080. They all work with 8 ohms.

Hold the straight button then press the power button to turn the AVR on. The advanced menu appears on the AVR display. Go in the impedence menu and choose 8 Ohm. Otherwise, you cut your power by almost half.

Then you could check if the Eco Mode is active - that is via the display on-screen menu, then setup, then the Eco tab.
If it is, I would also turn it off, otherwise your power is limited to around 30 Watt.

Maybe one of those settings could help.

I'm pretty sure I set them up right. The Martin Logans are four ohm speakers so I switched the receiver to 6ohms (manual says it does 4ohm on the front 2 and 6 on the rest) when I got them. I replaced the generic speaker wire I was using before some nice blue jean 10awg cables. I made sure eco mode was off.

 

[bluefirestarter]

I got a 2-channel amplifier for my fronts to relieve the burden of my poor rx-a810 powering 7 speakers. I think that will help.

Did you have any issues with the amp? I saw online there was a low voltage problem with the preouts on Yamaha's.

 

[EEE272]

I'm pretty sure I set them up right. The Martin Logans are four ohm speakers so I switched the receiver to 6ohms (manual says it does 4ohm on the front 2 and 6 on the rest) when I got them. I replaced the generic speaker wire I was using before some nice blue jean 10awg cables. I made sure eco mode was off.

That is exactly incorrect for your use case. You can keep it at 8 ohm - even if the Logans are 4 ohm.
Then you will get much more power - maybe no need for a new amp then! The risk is only that the receiver gets warmer but they also have a heat protection and the receiver would turn off. I never experienced it though - my speakers are also 4 ohm. I am really doubtful that your 1070 has insufficient power after this. Of course, officially, the setting you had is correct but it is only there to make sure that the heat stays low enough to get the approval stamp.

If you want to read up on the topic, you can look at the review for a newer model here:

Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K AV Receiver Bench Test Results!

We bench tested the Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K 150watt/ch Atmos/DTS:X Receiver to gauge power output and uncover performance issues we discovered. We discuss the proper settings for best power delivery.

www.audioholics.com

Look for "hold the nannies".

 

[EEE272]

Maybe another question but after having used ypao, to what level do you set your volume?

Assuming your speakers have a sensitivity of 84dB, which would be quite low and you sit at 4m away, only at 103 dB, your receiver slowly reaches its limits - according to specs, they deliver more than 200 Watts per channel. At -2dB on the volume setting, your receiver should therefore still be fine. I usually don't set it higher than -10 dB, which is very loud to me.

 

[EEE272]

I just looked it up; your speakers have a sensitivity of 94!!! That is really high.
So make this +8 dB on your receiver's volume... I am pretty confident that you probably don't turn it up so high.
Furthermore, I found another support of the 8 ohm setting.

MartinLogan specifies the Motion 60XTi as having a nominal impedance of 4 ohms “compatible with 4, 6, or 8 ohm rated amplifiers,” a sensitivity of 94dB/2.83V/m, and a frequency response of 35Hz-25kHz, ±3dB.
(https://www.soundstageaccess.com/in...ws/1020-martinlogan-motion-60xti-loudspeakers)

Thus, you officially are allowed to use the 8 ohm setting and your receiver just won around 50% power.

BTW. These are really beautiful speakers!

 

[bluefirestarter]

That is exactly incorrect for your use case. You can keep it at 8 ohm - even if the Logans are 4 ohm.
Then you will get much more power - maybe no need for a new amp then! The risk is only that the receiver gets warmer but they also have a heat protection and the receiver would turn off. I never experienced it though - my speakers are also 4 ohm. I am really doubtful that your 1070 has insufficient power after this. Of course, officially, the setting you had is correct but it is only there to make sure that the heat stays low enough to get the approval stamp.

If you want to read up on the topic, you can look at the review for a newer model here:

Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K AV Receiver Bench Test Results!

We bench tested the Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K 150watt/ch Atmos/DTS:X Receiver to gauge power output and uncover performance issues we discovered. We discuss the proper settings for best power delivery.

www.audioholics.com

Thank you for the help! I will def switch it back to 8 tonight. The Martins have a 94db sensitivity and I did run the YPAO and sit about 10 feet away from the speakers in an open room. Currently at 4 ohms if I turn it up to -23 it starts to clip. I wasn't terribly happy with the results of the ypao it set the PEQ gain of my subs very low. That's a whole other issue I'm trying to figure out

 

[FriedChicken]

Did you have any issues with the amp? I saw online there was a low voltage problem with the preouts on Yamaha's.

THIS MAKES SENSE!

I had slight issues when driving the fronts through my M-65 where there was almost like a "threshhold volume" where suddenly an audio signal would appear out of nowhere as it "ramped up". I didn't think much of this, but now I have a Sony STR-DB930 I'm trying to use as a 5-channel amplifier, and nit's giving me all sorts of issues

 

[EEE272]

Thank you for the help! I will def switch it back to 8 tonight. The Martins have a 94db sensitivity and I did run the YPAO and sit about 10 feet away from the speakers in an open room. Currently at 4 ohms if I turn it up to -23 it starts to clip. I wasn't terribly happy with the results of the ypao it set the PEQ gain of my subs very low. That's a whole other issue I'm trying to figure out

I asked for Ypao only because it makes sure the left speaker plays at around 105 dB when the amplifier is set to 0 and a full-scale signal comes in.

Clipping at -23 dB sounds very strange.
I ran my 810 at -10 dB with much less sensitive speakers and never had any clipping...

If you would buy an amp with 400 Watt per channel - which is the limit of your loudspeakers, you would then have clipping at -20 dB...

There must be a different problem.
What source are you using?
Does it happen for any input you use?

 

[bluefirestarter]

I asked for Ypao only because it makes sure the left speaker plays at around 105 dB when the amplifier is set to 0 and a full-scale signal comes in.

Clipping at -23 dB sounds very strange.
I ran my 810 at -10 dB with much less sensitive speakers and never had any clipping...

If you would buy an amp with 400 Watt per channel - which is the limit of your loudspeakers, you would then have clipping at -20 dB...

There must be a different problem.
What source are you using?
Does it happen for any input you use?

It clipped the worst on my apple tv and my xbox series x was able to go a bit louder before it started acting up. I'm at work now but when I get home, I'll flip it back to 8ohms and crank it up some and report back.

 

[TheBatsEar]

narrowed it down to the Emotiva XPA-7 or VTV 8 Channel NC502MP.

I think it's wiser to buy single mono or stereo blocks, reselling is much easier if you want something new and that adds flexibility too. If you order from Audiophonics/France you might even save some dough.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I had slight issues when driving the fronts through my M-65 where there was almost like a "threshhold volume" where suddenly an audio signal would appear out of nowhere as it "ramped up". I didn't think much of this, but now I have a Sony STR-DB930 I'm trying to use as a 5-channel amplifier, and nit's giving me all sorts of issues

Neither of these are what you would call the very definition of a spring chicken. In older gear like that you have to be prepared for contact issues. Protection relays and speaker selectors are the most likely to be in need of attention (cleaning or, as often with relays in common form factors, straight up replacement). Having to motivate the output by briefly cranking the volume is a classic symptom. The signal is basically fighting to get through a very thin insulating layer with some diode properties. At this point your damping factor and distortion measurements are likely to be far off from spec.

 

[FriedChicken]

Neither of these are what you would call the very definition of a spring chicken. In older gear like that you have to be prepared for contact issues. Protection relays and speaker selectors are the most likely to be in need of attention (cleaning or, as often with relays in common form factors, straight up replacement). Having to motivate the output by briefly cranking the volume is a classic symptom. The signal is basically fighting to get through a very thin insulating layer with some diode properties. At this point your damping factor and distortion measurements are likely to be far off from spec.

I might dive into it soon.

 

[FriedChicken]

Neither of these are what you would call the very definition of a spring chicken. In older gear like that you have to be prepared for contact issues. Protection relays and speaker selectors are the most likely to be in need of attention (cleaning or, as often with relays in common form factors, straight up replacement). Having to motivate the output by briefly cranking the volume is a classic symptom. The signal is basically fighting to get through a very thin insulating layer with some diode properties. At this point your damping factor and distortion measurements are likely to be far off from spec.

I haven't actually heard that this is an issue. How would a speaker selector be the culprit? Should I clean them with spray?