Amp for passive monitors

[acstrx]

background information I work on music as a hobby as well as listen to music

Just wondering what some of the best budget options here are? I tend come across a lot of speakers where I work in a charity organisation. Built up quite a collection of donated ones that no one wants. I'm thinking I may as well build a small listening setup to reference things across various speakers both hifi and monitors and since I have all this gear and i'm considering combining with a decent studio focused amp, it makes sense for me to sort out a decent pair of dedicated passive used monitors too and try some experiments working with them?
in terms of amplifiers, I come across these quite often as well, last one I picked up was a technics sua700 mk1. Which seems like an ok amp in the hifi world for its time, but i'm unsure if this will do the job for a studio? I've seen a few old yamaha ones around, which claim to be quite neutral or "natural sound" were these any good? I'm also considering doing some diy speaker builds and when looking at ap mastering's small monitors he's designed for people to build I noticed he mentioned powering using the fosi audio za3 amp.

Which is a new amplifier.

I have just picked up a bt20a as its great to have a Bluetooth option and have been having a blast sending music from my phone to some of the various speakers i've collected through this amp and now i'm wondering if that's all I even need? Or something similar? Would a modern amp like this be the best way to power diy monitors or an old pair of passive monitors I can find on the used market? From googling on using older used passive monitors people mention how they use a bryson amp? These are out of my budget though, would the technics one I have or a decent yamaha be any good? Or is the best option now to use a modern amp like the fosi audio ones? I know most people these days use active monitors but since I have access to some gear I figure I might try out an old skool setup for fun and experiments.

in terms of power requirements the hifi speakers which I have started collecting effectively for free
monitor audio rs1
monitor audio bronze 2
tannoy m20 gold
kef cresta
heybrook prima
i've also found some wharfdales (coleridge) and mordaunt short (ms20) which are being thrown out (perfect working order) and I may pick those up.

in terms of dedicated studio monitors I currently only have active ones, which don't qualify for amplification so I am also open to suggestions to pre-active era monitors which I should check out.

 

[DVDdoug]

Unlike speakers, most amplifiers are better than human hearing (unless you're talking about an old tube amp). So mainly you want enough power to go as loud as you want without too much power that can fry your speakers. And then whatever features you want.

If there's any kind of defect it's usually noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). ALL active analog electronics generate SOME noise and there are different ways to measure it so the manufacturer's specs are generally useless. Of course the measurements here are comparable. The audibility of noise depends on the sensitivity of the speakers, how close you are to the speakers, and other ambient noise in the room. The good news is it's easy to identify... Either you hear the noise or not.

Frequency response is usually flat over the audio range (ignoring tone controls) and distortion is usually below audibility unless you over-drive it into clipping/distortion.

I can't recommend speakers but speaker design hasn't changed that much. We still mostly have 2-way or 3-way designs, ported or sealed.

But it has become easier to make a good speaker with less trial-and-error. Thiele and Small published their research in the 1970s and that made it easier to predict performance of the box & woofer before a prototype is built. Then sometime after computers became ubiquitous and the software became easily available, the situation improved and there SHOULD be fewer "bad speakers".

There seems to have been some advanced in waveguides (for tweeters) too but I don't know when that came-along.

And with home theater becoming popular the "style" has changed. Smaller speakers are now popular, often with a separate subwoofer to cover the bass. Bookshelf speakers seem to be a lot more popular than they used to be. (Most people don't want 5 or more large speakers in their living room, and a subwoofer is "required" for the "point one" LFE channel.)

Passive speakers are still standard for stereo or home theater except for the subwoofer. Active "monitors" are mostly used with computers and home studios.

 

[JeremyFife]

If that little amp goes loud enough without creating noise or distorting - as @DVDdoug says - then it's perfectly fine for now. It may be all you ever need.

Can I ask why you want 'monitors'? If what you are looking for is a neutral/flat type of response then a couple of thoughts;
Some of those speakers are nearly there
If you want to know that your sound is neutral then you are probably going to have to make some measurements. Perhaps your next investment is a measurement microphone (unic-1, or one of the Dayton Audio calibrated ones)?
With a fun range of speakers to play with, there will be a range of frequency variations between them. Some method for correcting that (after measuring) makes sense - have a look at the WiiM options.

Enjoy

 

[Matias]

Welcome to ASR.

Maybe one of those 3 small amps depending on your budget?

Name - SINAD - Power (W) - Price (USD)
AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 - 83 - 77 - 66
Fosi Audio V3 (32V PS) - 88 - 85 - 90
Topping PA5 II - 105 - 120 - 220

 

[DSJR]

I only know a few of the speakers you mention, but I remember the plain looking MS20 as really setting high standards for basic neutrality and 'listenability' at the £120pr price point in comparison with more highly 'characterful' alternatives. They're around forty years old, however, so who knows what they're doing today if they've had a tough life.

Amps is amps, but again, it depends on the life they've had.

 

[JeremyFife]

I only know a few of the speakers you mention, but I remember the plain looking MS20 as really setting high standards for basic neutrality and 'listenability' at the £120pr price point in comparison with more highly 'characterful' alternatives. They're around forty years old, however, so who knows what they're doing today if they've had a tough life.

Amps is amps, but again, it depends on the life they've had.

I bought my Dad a pair (some <cough> 40 years ago!) ... he loved music but didn't care about equipment. They were built into his bookcase, still there today and still sounding surprisingly nice. I had no idea what I was doing then, just got lucky!

 

[acstrx]

If that little amp goes loud enough without creating noise or distorting - as @DVDdoug says - then it's perfectly fine for now. It may be all you ever need.

Can I ask why you want 'monitors'? If what you are looking for is a neutral/flat type of response then a couple of thoughts;
Some of those speakers are nearly there
If you want to know that your sound is neutral then you are probably going to have to make some measurements. Perhaps your next investment is a measurement microphone (unic-1, or one of the Dayton Audio calibrated ones)?
With a fun range of speakers to play with, there will be a range of frequency variations between them. Some method for correcting that (after measuring) makes sense - have a look at the WiiM options.

Enjoy

part of it is curiosity, I am interested in what it would be like to try mixing with some passive monitors from the generation prior to where I jumped on board. a lot of favourite styles of music came out of that era.
theres also some bargains out there in the used market. from my understanding a lot of passive speakers can hold up over time if looked after and in some cases there can be little that can go wrong. it's honestly a bit of a shame that so many people ditch great speakers, listening to what I have picked up some of them sound leagues better than any sound bar to my ears. I can understand maybe wanting convenience though and modern quality of life improvements esp if they are a producer with an incredibly expensive studio or has a lot of work to do. for me its a different perspective on things. I do work a lot in headphones but I don't want to be entirely working 100% that way, i'd like to hear things other ways and see if other tools can reveal things that some things can't.

yea I have thought about that actually, doing a personal room calibration. I did try to find frequency response charts for a lot of these speakers but only found a little bit of information there.

out of interest which of those did you think were nearly there? I think I read something about people using tannoy's back in the day and yea I found a gearspace thread on the ms20s which was suggestive they could be used for that purpose.
listening to the kef's to me they sounded a bit more scooped and with a bit of a hifi curve? I think my favourite so far is the bronze, they have this really nice airy quality to them. usually I find if something has a really pleasing hifi sound it's indicative that it might not be very flat or neutral but there is some gear out there which measures flat and also just sounds very good. i'd be curious to know which ones are more tuned flat as those may be easier to work with and concentrate on.

 

[acstrx]

Welcome to ASR.

Maybe one of those 3 small amps depending on your budget?

Name - SINAD - Power (W) - Price (USD)
AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 - 83 - 77 - 66
Fosi Audio V3 (32V PS) - 88 - 85 - 90
Topping PA5 II - 105 - 120 - 220

thanks I will look into these

 

[DSJR]

part of it is curiosity, I am interested in what it would be like to try mixing with some passive monitors from the generation prior to where I jumped on board. a lot of favourite styles of music came out of that era.
theres also some bargains out there in the used market. from my understanding a lot of passive speakers can hold up over time if looked after and in some cases there can be little that can go wrong. it's honestly a bit of a shame that so many people ditch great speakers, listening to what I have picked up some of them sound leagues better than any sound bar to my ears. I can understand maybe wanting convenience though and modern quality of life improvements esp if they are a producer with an incredibly expensive studio or has a lot of work to do. for me its a different perspective on things. I do work a lot in headphones but I don't want to be entirely working 100% that way, i'd like to hear things other ways and see if other tools can reveal things that some things can't.

yea I have thought about that actually, doing a personal room calibration. I did try to find frequency response charts for a lot of these speakers but only found a little bit of information there.

out of interest which of those did you think were nearly there? I think I read something about people using tannoy's back in the day and yea I found a gearspace thread on the ms20s which was suggestive they could be used for that purpose.
listening to the kef's to me they sounded a bit more scooped and with a bit of a hifi curve? I think my favourite so far is the bronze, they have this really nice airy quality to them. usually I find if something has a really pleasing hifi sound it's indicative that it might not be very flat or neutral but there is some gear out there which measures flat and also just sounds very good. i'd be curious to know which ones are more tuned flat as those may be easier to work with and concentrate on.

Many of my favourite early 80s albums were mixed on Urei monitors (Blackwing Studios used them I recall) and their ruthless clarity seemed to translate well I think. As speakers for pleasurable listening, I suspect they'd be too rough and 'projected' for pleasurable listening.

I heard an older small Tannoy 'pro' model which I *think* was the PBM8 (looks like a Mercury but much heavier and in a grey paint finish). To my ears back then, a FAR better speaker than the original Mercury (again, forty or so years ago).

 

[DanielT]

background information I work on music as a hobby as well as listen to music

Just wondering what some of the best budget options here are? I tend come across a lot of speakers where I work in a charity organisation. Built up quite a collection of donated ones that no one wants. I'm thinking I may as well build a small listening setup to reference things across various speakers both hifi and monitors and since I have all this gear and i'm considering combining with a decent studio focused amp, it makes sense for me to sort out a decent pair of dedicated passive used monitors too and try some experiments working with them?
in terms of amplifiers, I come across these quite often as well, last one I picked up was a technics sua700 mk1. Which seems like an ok amp in the hifi world for its time, but i'm unsure if this will do the job for a studio? I've seen a few old yamaha ones around, which claim to be quite neutral or "natural sound" were these any good? I'm also considering doing some diy speaker builds and when looking at ap mastering's small monitors he's designed for people to build I noticed he mentioned powering using the fosi audio za3 amp.

Which is a new amplifier.

I have just picked up a bt20a as its great to have a Bluetooth option and have been having a blast sending music from my phone to some of the various speakers i've collected through this amp and now i'm wondering if that's all I even need? Or something similar? Would a modern amp like this be the best way to power diy monitors or an old pair of passive monitors I can find on the used market? From googling on using older used passive monitors people mention how they use a bryson amp? These are out of my budget though, would the technics one I have or a decent yamaha be any good? Or is the best option now to use a modern amp like the fosi audio ones? I know most people these days use active monitors but since I have access to some gear I figure I might try out an old skool setup for fun and experiments.

in terms of power requirements the hifi speakers which I have started collecting effectively for free
monitor audio rs1
monitor audio bronze 2
tannoy m20 gold
kef cresta
heybrook prima
i've also found some wharfdales (coleridge) and mordaunt short (ms20) which are being thrown out (perfect working order) and I may pick those up.

in terms of dedicated studio monitors I currently only have active ones, which don't qualify for amplification so I am also open to suggestions to pre-active era monitors which I should check out.

My tip is to sell some of your speakers so you can get some money to move up one or a few classes and, for example, buy a pair of used:

'Revel M105 Bookshelf Speaker Review'

Jul 17, 2020

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M105 Bookshelf/stand-mount speaker. A member was interested in it so I decided to buy it through our company. The retail cost is US $750 each for a total of $1,500 for a pair.

NOTE: my company, Madrona Digital is a dealer for Harman and hence the Revel speakers. So please read as much bias as you like into this review.

The Revel M105 fits in the family with solid feel and very nice finish:

Terminals are large and easy to manipulate which I appreciated. I also like that the whole unit comes in cling plastic so...

• amirm
• Replies: 476
• Forum: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion

• 

For speakers with 85 dB sensitivity, I would have chosen an amplifier with at least 80 watts of power. If you mostly play at relatively low volume, it doesn't matter much, though. Then you can get by with your current 45 watts. That is IF you don't play music with a lot of dynamics in it.

Add a subwoofer plus EQ.

Think about the source into the amplifier and what functions this source should have. For streamed music, WiiM with its products is now a popular and good choice. Even their cheapest streamer puck WiiM Mini now has EQ/PEQ functions, for example.

One more tip, which doesn't involve an amplifier, but it can definitely provide better sound if you need:

'Wood acoustic diffusers have become a decorative item - loved the idea!'

Nov 8, 2022

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As an acoustician I am tired to tell people not to think room treatment only as absorption. In most small rooms absorption often creates more issues than it solves. Diffusion is a better solution. However, all I hear: they are expensive, ugly and difficult to place in a room. I am hence pleasantly surprised when I stumbled upon these on Etsy!

Wood Sound Diffuser - Etsy UK

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Not all are done correctly but nevertheless any similarly constructed panel will diffuse the sound in a room. They are a much better choice than foam panels to stop a...

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• Forum: Room Acoustics and General Speaker Discussions

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