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Amp for focal clear

spartaman64

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I was told that my liquid spark might not pair that well with the focal clear. I was recommended the rupert neve rnhp, litte labs monotor, lake people g111, flux fa12. Which one should I get? And feel free to recommend any that you think is better than the ones listed.
 

Jimbob54

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I was told that my liquid spark might not pair that well with the focal clear. I was recommended the rupert neve rnhp, litte labs monotor, lake people g111, flux fa12. Which one should I get? And feel free to recommend any that you think is better than the ones listed.

The Clear really aren't hard to drive. Stick with your LS. But do experiment with eq if you have the ability.
 
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spartaman64

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The Clear really aren't hard to drive. Stick with your LS. But do experiment with eq if you have the ability.
yep but apparently the issue is that they are a bit picky with amps not that they are hard to drive
 

Jimbob54

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Oh, and ask the sages why the LS isn't a good match and why each of the others is.
 
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spartaman64

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Oh, and ask the sages why the LS isn't a good match and why each of the others is.
they said that the clears are a very revealing headphone and they display the technical abilities of the amp
 

Jimbob54

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they said that the clears are a very revealing headphone and they display the technical abilities of the amp

The LS is far from the best performing amp amir has tested and there are technically better amps for the same money.

But that doesn't mean you would hear those differences. And you certainly don't need $500 plus amps. If you are happy with the sound, leave as is (and try out some eq)

Amir's review https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-liquid-spark-headphone-amp.5224/post-115781
 

Martin

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As @Jimbob54 said try EQ on those Clears. I think you’ll be quite happy you did. All the amps in your list that Amir reviewed seem very close in measured performance. You’ll get much better results with EQ.

Martin
 

seedragon

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So I compared a few amplifiers, as well as using Equializer APO EQ, to power my Clears and I landed on a Burson Conductor 3X Performance. Here's what I found:

  • Topping DX3 Pro - I used this all-in-one amp for years to power a pair of Oppo PM-3 planars, were underpowered in the bass with my Clears and created a lot of distortion in the very high frequencies that gave me a headache.
  • Eddie Current Black Amp - This class-A sounded pretty awesome to me (rich and warm, which is what I like), but it ran extremely hot, had a high noise floor for such sensitive headphones as the Clears, and looked awful IMO. It also was single-ended out, whereas I wanted balanced. I used a Schiit Bifrost 2 as the DAC.
  • Monoprice Liquid Gold X - I absolutely loved how this sounded with the Clears. It produced very mellow and smooth highs, which mean I could crank the volume and get a ton of bass without giving me a headache. (You should only run the LAuX balanced.) However, I felt like I might be missing a lot of spatial information due to the attenuated highs. To test that theory, I bought a Burson Conductor 3X Performance to compare to it and I was right.
  • Burson Conductor 3X Performance - Warm, powerful, with gobs of detail and imaging. I traded off the golden warmth of the LAuX for more spatial information. I do wish it was as warm as the LAuX, but I don't know how to get the spatial information and the fat bottom end at the same time; I don't think you can. You can its filter settings to attenuate the very highest frequencies a bit, which I do (I use the CMFR filter). The other great thing about the Burson is that you can op-amp roll it, which I'm planning to do in the future. I'm listening to the C3XP with my Clears as I type this and love every moment of it. (Here are more details of my comparison of the LAuX to the Burson C3XP on Head-Fi: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-liquid-gold-x.914828/post-16194770)
Good luck.
 

raistlin65

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yep but apparently the issue is that they are a bit picky with amps not that they are hard to drive

The Liquid Spark is a very accurate measuring headphone amp. Accurate enough that likely any distortion and noise is inaudible. So in other words, it doesn't sound like anything because it reproduces the sound as it should be.

Be wary of personal testimonials that tell you different because perceptual biases affect all people when we listen to audio products. So the whole headphone and amplifier synergy thing is often a product of an expectation bias. More snake oil in this hobby.
 

Helicopter

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they said that the clears are a very revealing headphone and they display the technical abilities of the amp
They certainly reveal details in music to me, and the noise floor of some poor performing amps, but outside that, I have found they sound identical with all my well designed contemporary solid-state amps like Hel, Magni 3, Heresy, 2i2, and at reasonable volume, even my Samsung Galaxy S9. Most solid state amps are pretty good these days, with power and voltage coming into play sometimes, but not really with Clear.
 

3125b

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With 101dB/mW resp. 114dB/V the Clear is fairly easy to drive, so you want an amp with a reasonably low noise floor. The maximum SPL is 121dB, wich is reached at 2.35Vrms, more will damage the drivers (with the Focals, even less might do that though, depending on frequency). It has an impedance hump in the upper bass area, so you want an amp with low output impedance as to not change the FR.
It runs fine driven from most dongles and certainly any of the great budget amps.
 

seedragon

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The Liquid Spark is a very accurate measuring headphone amp. Accurate enough that likely any distortion and noise is inaudible. So in other words, it doesn't sound like anything because it reproduces the sound as it should be.

Be wary of personal testimonials that tell you different because perceptual biases affect all people when we listen to audio products. So the whole headphone and amplifier synergy thing is often a product of an expectation bias. More snake oil in this hobby.

I'm a huge proponent of making decisions based on measurements (I've taken 40+ measurements of my HT room in the past 4 days) but it's equally important to be wary of being dictated by measurements.

An amp may be very accurate, but that doesn't mean you're going to like the sound coming out of your headphones with that amp. You may actually prefer a less accurate amp based on what your headphones do with that signal. You never actually "hear" an amp; you only hear what your headphones do with the signal coming out of that amp. Because no headphone is linear, you're not going to hear anything "accurately" even if your amp is very linear.

An accurate amp might show you what your headphone's biases (some of which you might consider weaknesses) are, but you might prefer that your amp modify those biases/weaknesses, which is why so many people love different kinds of amps (tubes, op-amp, etc) that are not so precise (any vinyl lovers out there?). I love the very non-linear-to-my-ears Monoprice Liquid Gold X amp paired with my Focal Clear because of how they interact; it sounds way different from a solid-state like the Topping DX3 Pro. But I ultimately chose what I consider to be a more "accurate" amp, the Burson C3XP, because I preferred that sound for the long run. Accurate is a good reference to be sure (perhaps it's the only possible reference), but achieving it may not make you happy. (Case in point: the majority of people prefer a 3-6 dB bump in bass above "flat" in a home theater situation, but who cares if it's not "accurate" or if the bump is coming from the amps or the speakers or your speaker's positioning or your room or whatever.)

Critically compare an "accurate" vs. "not accurate" amp with your headphones and make the choice for yourself. You have to live with your investment, not anyone else.
 

Jimbob54

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I'm a huge proponent of making decisions based on measurements (I've taken 40+ measurements of my HT room in the past 4 days) but it's equally important to be wary of being dictated by measurements.

An amp may be very accurate, but that doesn't mean you're going to like the sound coming out of your headphones with that amp. You may actually prefer a less accurate amp based on what your headphones do with that signal. You never actually "hear" an amp; you only hear what your headphones do with the signal coming out of that amp. Because no headphone is linear, you're not going to hear anything "accurately" even if your amp is very linear.

An accurate amp might show you what your headphone's biases (some of which you might consider weaknesses) are, but you might prefer that your amp modify those biases/weaknesses, which is why so many people love different kinds of amps (tubes, op-amp, etc) that are not so precise (any vinyl lovers out there?). I love the very non-linear-to-my-ears Monoprice Liquid Gold X amp paired with my Focal Clear because of how they interact; it sounds way different from a solid-state like the Topping DX3 Pro. But I ultimately chose what I consider to be a more "accurate" amp, the Burson C3XP, because I preferred that sound for the long run. Accurate is a good reference to be sure (perhaps it's the only possible reference), but achieving it may not make you happy. (Case in point: the majority of people prefer a 3-6 dB bump in bass above "flat" in a home theater situation, but who cares if it's not "accurate" or if the bump is coming from the amps or the speakers or your speaker's positioning or your room or whatever.)

Critically compare an "accurate" vs. "not accurate" amp with your headphones and make the choice for yourself. You have to live with your investment, not anyone else.
How do you determine an "accurate" from a "non accurate" in the absence of measurements from here or similar?
 

Racheski

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I'm a huge proponent of making decisions based on measurements (I've taken 40+ measurements of my HT room in the past 4 days) but it's equally important to be wary of being dictated by measurements.

An amp may be very accurate, but that doesn't mean you're going to like the sound coming out of your headphones with that amp. You may actually prefer a less accurate amp based on what your headphones do with that signal. You never actually "hear" an amp; you only hear what your headphones do with the signal coming out of that amp. Because no headphone is linear, you're not going to hear anything "accurately" even if your amp is very linear.

An accurate amp might show you what your headphone's biases (some of which you might consider weaknesses) are, but you might prefer that your amp modify those biases/weaknesses, which is why so many people love different kinds of amps (tubes, op-amp, etc) that are not so precise (any vinyl lovers out there?). I love the very non-linear-to-my-ears Monoprice Liquid Gold X amp paired with my Focal Clear because of how they interact; it sounds way different from a solid-state like the Topping DX3 Pro. But I ultimately chose what I consider to be a more "accurate" amp, the Burson C3XP, because I preferred that sound for the long run. Accurate is a good reference to be sure (perhaps it's the only possible reference), but achieving it may not make you happy. (Case in point: the majority of people prefer a 3-6 dB bump in bass above "flat" in a home theater situation, but who cares if it's not "accurate" or if the bump is coming from the amps or the speakers or your speaker's positioning or your room or whatever.)

Critically compare an "accurate" vs. "not accurate" amp with your headphones and make the choice for yourself. You have to live with your investment, not anyone else.
Or save yourself the time, money, and effort of amp comparison by buying a linear amp and EQ'ing your headphones.
 

seedragon

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Or save yourself the time, money, and effort of amp comparison by buying a linear amp and EQ'ing your headphones.
100% valid, but not the only option if you have the time, money, and enthusiasm to compare amps. It's a fun thing to do in and of itself for some folks. =)
 

Racheski

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100% valid, but not the only option if you have the time, money, and enthusiasm to compare amps. It's a fun thing to do in and of itself for some folks. =)
To each his own. Let us know what your final decision is :cool:
 

seedragon

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How do you determine an "accurate" from a "non accurate" in the absence of measurements from here or similar?
You can determine "more accurate" and "less accurate" compared to some reference. For an amp you measure the output signal as compared to the input signal, which is a volts-to-volts comparison. Comparing your headphone's SPL output to a voltage input is much more complicated and, in a way, a fool's errand imo. That's why reviewers measure a headphone's SPL/FR output against a target curve, which is a preference curve, that is nothing like a flat response because of how our pinnae and other head transfer function (HTF) variables interact with the transducer. My point is that getting an "accurate" amp is all well and good, but it doesn't mean you'll like what comes out of your headphones because your headphones introduce all kinds of other variables into the equation. You may not like everything your headphones do, so you can change your amp to compensate for those things. EQ is another valid way to do it.

At the end of the day, it's what you hear that matters, so realizing that you can give up some amp accuracy to get more headphone enjoyability is a valid approach to making time/money investment decisions.
 

raistlin65

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You can determine "more accurate" and "less accurate" compared to some reference. For an amp you measure the output signal as compared to the input signal, which is a volts-to-volts comparison. Comparing your headphone's SPL output to a voltage input is much more complicated and, in a way, a fool's errand imo. That's why reviewers measure a headphone's SPL/FR output against a target curve, which is a preference curve, that is nothing like a flat response because of how our pinnae and other head transfer function (HTF) variables interact with the transducer. My point is that getting an "accurate" amp is all well and good, but it doesn't mean you'll like what comes out of your headphones because your headphones introduce all kinds of other variables into the equation. You may not like everything your headphones do, so you can change your amp to compensate for those things. EQ is another valid way to do it.

At the end of the day, it's what you hear that matters, so realizing that you can give up some amp accuracy to get more headphone enjoyability is a valid approach to making time/money investment decisions.

But how do people find this inaccurate amp which does change the sound how they would like? (well, other than by demoing them) By and large, testimonials of how amps sound are unreliable due to perceptual biases. So you can't really rely on subjective reviews.

Certainly, there are a very small number of individuals who might look at measurements of distortion characteristics for an amp and guess how it could sound different. But the vast majority of people searching for amps to change their headphone's sound can't do this.
 
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