Amir's 2023 Pacific Audio Fest Report

[Verig]

Speakers no longer sitting directly on the floor. Most speakers are now raised either on footers, a platform, or both.

...

But I wonder, even if one dismisses the effect of whatever particular footer or stand may be producing or not, is it possible many manufacturers have noticed some advantage simply of raising the speakers off the floor to some degree?

I had to think about what you're saying for a while because I'm so accustomed to having at least footers that I "didn't see" it. Yes, it looks like to be a trend.
As a father of young kids I welcome anything that brings stability. Not really a problem with these behemoths but making a bit more lean towers more stable is definitely a good idea.
Apart from that it depends on your floor. I've found extra stable footing almost always sonically beneficial. Nothing major but as I'd do it anyway it's good that it's not a downgrade.

I don't think speaker manufacturers have noticed anything. It's their design from ground up so they measure everything as is, be it with platform or not.
Or perhaps they have always known that sure footing is a must but the trend has been against it - people wanting smaller footprint speaker? And now we just luckily have a reverse trend which is technically better?

 

[Purité Audio]

Just another nonsense product.
Keith

 

[Galliardist]

Just another nonsense product.
Keith

I suspect if ASR was paid a dollar for every ridiculous and unprovable claim in the promotional literature and websites for the products at the show - regardless of how they sound - well, what could Amir manage with those funds?

 

[Billy Budapest]

No, they are all fools, the emperor as much as the citizens, just for different reasons.

Well.. there you go!

And the child bursting out in laughter… that’s Amir of course

You are right, they are all fools!

 

[Se7enAtx]

Wondering if you listened to the Dutch & Dutch 8c's there? If so, why would you not consider buying them?

Stereophile seemed to like us.

JVS's Best of PAF 2023: Dutch & Dutch 8c all-in-ones

"Have you heard Dutch & Dutch? If you haven't, you must." Time and again, variations on that theme were voiced either by me or many of the attendees I chatted with at the show. As far as I can recall, my encounter with the Dutch & Dutch 8c active loudspeakers ($15,000/pair) is the first time I...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Verig]

Stereophile seemed to like us.

JVS's Best of PAF 2023: Dutch & Dutch 8c all-in-ones

"Have you heard Dutch & Dutch? If you haven't, you must." Time and again, variations on that theme were voiced either by me or many of the attendees I chatted with at the show. As far as I can recall, my encounter with the Dutch & Dutch 8c active loudspeakers ($15,000/pair) is the first time I...

www.stereophile.com

Specs are quite like Amphion Krypton 3X put in a small cabinet.

I haven't heard 8c but this sort of design gives huge performance from a small(ish) active speaker. Very little fairy dust here as everything serves an actual purpose.

 

[hansik]

Of course it does, you live in the Netherlands with the world’s highest tax rates. That allows for programs and attitudes about universal health, care, paid higher education, pet ambulances with veterinarians on board (a friend of mine runs that program) etc. It also reduces/limits your disposable income, limiting your choices on how you want to use it. You have a Socialist party, a Labor party that is Socialist-Democratic and they put people in office every year.

It’s a different mindset, not saying which is right or wrong, but it is vastly different this how things are in the US. We are open to people being allowed to do stupid things like not save for retirement, spending money on high dollar audio equipment and a million other things but we don’t see a compelling need to save them from themselves. You do.

Sorry, Belgium has higher taxes than the Netherlands, I live there so I know it
Though the Netherlands are trying to catch up with us and be the first communist country in the EU. WEF foodhubs, artificial meat, farmers must go, fishermen not wanted anymore, unlimited money to Ukraine, unlimited climate funds, manipulating pension funds, if you sell your property worth > 350K EUR, you have to ask the government if there are no poor or middle income candidates - those get priority. Etc. etc.

 

[MattHooper]

I suspect if ASR was paid a dollar for every ridiculous and unprovable claim in the promotional literature and websites for the products at the show - regardless of how they sound - well, what could Amir manage with those funds?

True.

Obversely, if one received a dollar for every predictable 'nonsense product' reply on ASR, one can dream about what we'd do with all that money....

 

[pseudoid]

True.

Obversely, ...one can dream about what we'd do with all that money....

Perhaps, "we" can start here:

 

[MattHooper]

Perhaps, "we" can start here:
View attachment 295231

$Ka-ching$!

 

[MattHooper]

I think we can do even better than that!

DarTZeel, they of the high priced Gold/Red blingy amps, are now purportedly marketing a new line of phono cartridges.

Prices range - for a cartridge! - from a "low" of around $48,000 up to One Million Dollars:

I don't know if their product info was posted on April Fool's day or not.

 

[57gold]

Not that Joseph speakers are anything like The Best you can buy, but I do find it intriguing how uniform the opinion seems to be on their speakers/demos/shows etc. Show reports are often all over the map, and often filled more with "I can't believe that expensive thing sounded so crap" than anything else. But time after time the Joseph room gets kudos from audiophiles of every ilk (subjectivist to objectivist). Suggests the guy is doing something right.

It was being blown away by the Joseph Pearls at a show that sent me looking in to the brand, and ultimately purchasing the next-down-from-the-Pearls model: Perspectives. (Graphene). My dealer finally got in the new Pearls, but I'm torn if I actually want to hear them. I want to stay satisfied with my Perspectives




Understandable. Joseph speakers have been knocked for years "you can get all those parts yourself and make a speaker for way less!" It's a very small brand and I guess they've gotta price what they've gotta price to keep afloat. I doubt Jeff Joseph spends the weekends on his yacht.

But the value call is going to be subjective of course.

I could have ended up with high performing, great measuring speakers with a similar frequency range (e.g KEF or whatever) as my JA Perspectives. But I liked their sound better than just about anything else I heard, and they have a styling and fit and finish I didn't find in competing products, which is important to me as well. So I was ok with spending the bucks. Totally understand a different "perspective" though....

Had similar experience at my first audiophile show in Tampa a couple of months ago.

Listened to several ultra high end speakers, in ultra high end systems and then stumbled into the Joseph Audio room and was amazed that their diminutive monitors filled the room with full frequency and accurate musical performances. Have played in bands for decades and have a home full of musical instruments, so that is my reference. Asked the fellow next to me if there were subwoofers on as the bass was deep and clear, Mr Joseph (the guy who happened to be next to me) replied, no, only his newest monitors were playing; named Pulsar2 Graphene.

FWIW, did have another experience that I had wished wasn't true. Had read for years about MSB DACs but never seen one in person. Decided that this was my chance even though I would never spend $100K on a DAC, a couple of vintage guitars, yes, but not a piece of hardware doomed to obsolescence. Asked them to play some music I was familiar with and have to say that the piano, sax and vocals were stunningly "performers are in the room". Three heavy carved aluminum boxes - DAC, D to D, and power supply made up the digital front end...listened to the pitch on the technology, most of which I wouldn't understand. But, it sounded like real, live music, not recordings. Wonder how it tests?

 

[Travis]

Sorry, Belgium has higher taxes than the Netherlands, I live there so I know it
Though the Netherlands are trying to catch up with us and be the first communist country in the EU. WEF foodhubs, artificial meat, farmers must go, fishermen not wanted anymore, unlimited money to Ukraine, unlimited climate funds, manipulating pension funds, if you sell your property worth > 350K EUR, you have to ask the government if there are no poor or middle income candidates - those get priority. Etc. etc.

Thanks for update, but we were asked to avoid politics and unrelated things, was just pointing our where people’s point of reference might be, without being judgmental about it.

Are there any “big” audio/speaker makers in Belgium. I was trying to think and none popped out at me.

EDIT: KEF duh

Back to the thread, I like the photos, the music and seeing all of the displays. Even though you can get very well measuring devices in a plain box, there is always going to be demand for having those same good measurements in an attractive box. Cosmetics can never be underestimated, and I agree with many of the posts in these threads that some of these components are works of art.

Which, when it comes right down to it, explains a couple of things:

1. Why sighted comparisons are typically of no value;

2. Why people continue to buy stuff that provides less SQ (measures bad) or makes no audible difference, it just looks so damn good it has to sound great.

 

[voodooless]

Are there any “big” audio/speaker makers in Belgium. I was trying to think and none popped out at me.

EDIT: KEF duh

KEF is, or rather was, British.

As for Belgian audio, I guess there is Bruno Putzeys, basically single-handedly responsible for Class-D emergence. Known for Philips, Hypex, Purify, Molla and Kii (and I may have forgotten some more)

 

[MattHooper]

Thanks for update, but we were asked to avoid politics and unrelated things, was just pointing our where people’s point of reference might be, without being judgmental about it.

Are there any “big” audio/speaker makers in Belgium. I was trying to think and none popped out at me.

EDIT: KEF duh

Back to the thread, I like the photos, the music and seeing all of the displays. Even though you can get very well measuring devices in a plain box, there is always going to be demand for having those same good measurements in an attractive box. Cosmetics can never be underestimated, and I agree with many of the posts in these threads that some of these components are works of art.

Which, when it comes right down to it, explains a couple of things:

1. Why sighted comparisons are typically of no value;

2. Why people continue to buy stuff that provides less SQ (measures bad) or makes no audible difference, it just looks so damn good it has to sound great.

Well....

Disagree on the "sighted comparisons are typically of no value" conclusion (but we've been around on that on this forum many times).

But as to looks vs sound expectations:

I just came back from my buddy's place - his current system is extremely expensive, lots of audiophile jewellery that I find really nice to look at. Yet I couldn't live with
the sound of that system. I've very often auditioned gear that I found beautiful and really hoped to like, but which sounded off-putting.

Likewise, it's incredibly common for audiophiles commenting on audio shows to be disappointed with the sound of much of the expensive looking audio jewellery at shows.

That's not to say there isn't a problem with sighted bias. Or that manufacturers aren't designing gear that looks attractive for a reason. Just that bias is pretty complex and often doesn't reliably amount to "I think something looks nice so it will be interpreted as sounding good." There are way too many examples to the contrary.

 

[Travis]

KEF is, or rather was, British.

As for Belgian audio, I guess there is Bruno Putzeys, basically single-handedly responsible for Class-D emergence. Known for Philips, Hypex, Purify, Molla and Kii (and I may have forgotten some more)

KEF isn’t made in Belgium?

 

[voodooless]

KEF isn’t made in Belgium?

Not that I know of. They still manufacture some top of the line products in the England, the rest is from the far east.

 

[Prana Ferox]

BTW, the photos in this thread, along with lots of other coverage I've been watching of audio shows, reminds me of a trend I've noticed:

Speakers no longer sitting directly on the floor. Most speakers are now raised either on footers, a platform, or both.

I went looking at much older show report photos, which showed this wasn't nearly so prominant a trend; many of the speakers were just towers sat directly on the floor.

So this trend of raising up speakers: Why? Obviously it can be put down as a current audiophile fashion - everyone is doing it so it's becoming more expected. And many companies have clearly noticed the market success of the IsoAcoustics speaker footers. It seems everyone and his brother are coming out with new "decoupling" footers.

But I wonder, even if one dismisses the effect of whatever particular footer or stand may be producing or not, is it possible many manufacturers have noticed some advantage simply of raising the speakers off the floor to some degree?

I've been playing with raising my floorstanding speakers to different heights and it does seem to affect the sound, including in the bass (tends to get a little leaner) so is it possible the raising might help a teeny bit with altering bass response? (In terms of shows: Dunno how much it could possibly help given the acoustics of many hotel rooms).

Putting speakers (or stands) on some sort of spikes to 'isolate' them from the soft carpet and 'anchor' them to the underfloor has been a thing for decades. There is at least some validity to this, i.e. the 'spiked' speaker moves around less when you put your drink on it, and is possibly less likely to topple over onto small children. The latter also encourages a wider base platform of some sort even as WAF shrinks baffle sizes.

I'm no Stereophile archeologist but I'm pretty sure cable lifters also reach back quite some time, although they probably increase the hazard to/from motive children rather than mitigate.

Perhaps what you are noticing is what were (at least in the case of the spikes) semi-functional baubles now being extended out into some opulent cargo cult totem.

 

[pseudoid]

KEF isn’t made in Belgium?

Dutch forests are known for their Birch and Beech trees....

 

[voodooless]

Dutch forests are known for their Birch and Beech trees....

But Dutch forests are also not in Belgium