@Amir: request for testing DAC's pre/de-emphasis support

[restorer-john]

Since many original CDs with preemphasis don't list that fact in the TOC properly as mentioned before, odd things occur when one rips such CD with e.g. CloneCD: the cuesheet for e.g. Michael Jackson - Thriller will only state the "FLAGS PRE" statement for some of the tracks although the album uses it throughout entirely.

Pre-emphasis is triggered on a track to track basis, possibly even within a track. There is no 'global' disc setting.

 

[little-endian]

True, but if an album entirely uses preemphasis, I would expect to find the "FLAGS PRE" statement consequently for each track in the cuesheet which isn't the case.

But maybe that's also a bug in CloneCD ...

 

[restorer-john]

a) are S/PDIF sources properly deemphasised when flagged so?

In reality, this is all that's important. We are talking the coaxial and optical interface and 16/44.1. What comes via USB is too unknown.

If we are talking 16/44.1 and sources derived originally from Compact Disc, how many of those people will be using an external D/A converter in the first place? I know I don't. All my CDs are played on dedicated, high performance standalone CD players. You have none of the issues you get with external SPDIF connected D/A converters to deal with, and better overall performance. How many people ripped all their oldest CDs to a NAS and play them into a network streamer that may not have proper de-emphasis or even be told there is a PE flag at all?

What interests me more, is how much of the content (streaming etc) people are listening to, which has ultimately come from compact disc sources in the first place, is incorrectly encoded (PE) or simply isn't having the appropriate de-emphasis applied while being listened to.

 

[Daverz]

Honestly, the number of discs produced with pre-emphasis was tiny. Just Google it, there seem to be low hundreds at most, and all discs from the dawn of the CD era, mostly Japanese made. It is just not an issue worth considering today.

Out of 3773 discs in my collection, 126 discs have pre-emphasis (and I may have missed a few). So I think "low hundreds" is a ridiculously low estimate for the total number of CD masters produced with pre-emphasis.

I've also seen CD reissues that just reproduce the old CD master complete with pre-emphasis.

(I use sox to permanently apply de-emphasis to the ripped files. AFAIK the alternative is the use cue files and disc images to apply the de-emphasis on the fly. But the cuefile metadata is much too limited, so I rip to individual FLACs.)

 

[little-endian]

In reality, this is all that's important.

I would say, if a) is fulfilled, then it's "fair enough". Not supporting it at all is certainly not okay though as it is violating the CD standard (Yes, Topping. Talking to you!).

We are talking the coaxial and optical interface and 16/44.1. What comes via USB is too unknown.

I agree, but like RME shows, it's a nice optional feature to have. Also, it has the advantage that one can leave the files unaltered and still have it right.

b) would be a feature which is mentioned in the manual then or visible in some menu and thus nothing which has to be trial & error - tested like a) so it should be something quicker to be verified

If we are talking 16/44.1 and sources derived originally from Compact Disc, how many of those people will be using an external D/A converter in the first place?

One might use some mobile phone or laptop and use the DAC combination for the better/more powerful headphone output. Other then that, I'm also pretty sure that the direct DAC path of that source would suffice.

I know I don't. All my CDs are played on dedicated, high performance standalone CD players.

Well, it's quite eccentric and "spleeny", but one could come up with the idea to hook up a crappy internal PC CD drive with S/PDIF output to a DAC just to prove the point that the quality is entirely determined by the latter and not the drive of course, but yeah ...

Except for that, maybe some CD players have the sub-optimal and a bit too high headphone output impedance where again a DAC/headphone amp combo might be slightly better for reasoning.

I agree that the whole concept of external DACs is somewhat a bit a solution looking for a problem (beyond the voodoo claims of course where jitter is always the major problem, internal DACs of sources crap by definition, etc.)

What interests me more, is how much of the content (streaming etc) people are listening to, which has ultimately come from compact disc sources in the first place, is incorrectly encoded (PE) or simply isn't having the appropriate de-emphasis applied while being listened to.

Thinking about lousily mastered Blu-rays where they sometimes took the former DVD masters of PAL regions which have been pitch-adjusted after speedup and then slowed down again for the 24fps release, resulting in too low pitch and other crimes, I guess this is a hornets' nest.

Also reminds me of the constant confusion with DTS for movie and for music playback where the latter I think doesn't require the 10dB boost while the other does and LaserDiscs here and there where the LFE allegedly has been boosted too much ... or the CinemaDTS CDs ran in cinemas where they also changed the mastering standard of LFE levels on later releases ... it's always a nightmare when things aren't properly documented on the media. At the end, it's guessing what is intended now.

 

[Scytales]

it's always a nightmare when things aren't properly documented on the media. At the end, it's guessing what is intended now.

Oh yes!

May discs or other musical contents editors read you...