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Amir recommendation criticism

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#1
I want to say that I really like that this site based on measurements and no feelings or opinions and I really appreciate Amir time and efforts to review and measure all those spekakers but.....
How can JBL and Revel get recommended?
3.8k$ JBL with 4.9 reommended.
1.6k$ Revel with 4.9 recommended.
1k$ Kef with 5.0 not recommended and I saw that Amir did not like the best passive speaker in this list the R3.
Like I said before thank you Amir for all the hard work but at the moment if we look on the list anything above 2k$ can not be recommended.
Price can be measured too and compared to other speakers, the only 2 speakers that worth the money based on measurements are the Elac dbr 62 and the R3.
Everything else is above their prices and with lower scores.
 
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Sancus

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#2
Preference score isn't an official part of the reviews, and it doesn't capture all of the attributes of a speaker.

Also your prices make no sense to me, there's no speakers with those prices and scores. The JBL HDI-3600 is $3800/pair and the Revel F35 is $1600/pair.
 

richard12511

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#3
One thing that helped me to come to terms with Amir's recommendations is understanding that it's mainly just a "would Amir buy this product?". Like you, I was thinking his recommendations made no sense much of the time, but that's because I was looking at his recommendations as a "does this product perform well relative to other products in its price range?", and that's not what it is.

*Edit - another thing I was failing to take into account is just how much bass can swing things, as I generally only pay attention to the "with sub" score. That was also throwing me off.
 
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Thread Starter #4
Preference score isn't an official part of the reviews, and it doesn't capture all of the attributes of a speaker.

Also your prices make no sense to me, there's no speakers with those prices and scores. The JBL HDI-3600 is $3800/pair and the Revel F35 is $1600/pair.
I thought the prices are for one speaker because the R3 is for one speaker.....
Anyway the Kef Q350 also does not get recommended.
 

TomB

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#5
I am not sure that I understand your point. Are you saying that you would recommend speakers that Amir did not choose to recommend?
 
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Thread Starter #6
I am not sure that I understand your point. Are you saying that you would recommend speakers that Amir did not choose to recommend?
According to WhatHIFI the R3 is one of the best speaker they have ever heard so the recommendation should be on score, no?
A lot of people love the LS50 (I don't have them) so why would you not recommend them?
Personal opinions are problematic and it is a bit confusing because it contradict the scores.
 
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Thread Starter #8
It's useful to think that the speaker reviews have two parts:
1) The measurements
2) The subjective listening test & recommendation (pink panthers)

And ofc the preference score based on the measurements.

It's up to you how much you choose to value his subjective impressions.
I guess it is fair if it is very clear that the recommendation is only based on personal taste.... because it is not very obvious how speakers get recommended.
The ls50 is still being recommended in Stererophile tier A if I am not mistaken but here it scores low and not recommended.
I think it should be clear that the score does not reflect recommendation. It is a bit confusing now.
 

Crane

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#9
You need to realize that speakers recommendations not the same as DAC/amp. Each person has different preference just because it scores better doesn't mean everyone will like it, some like heavy bass, other mids, and even some like the highs. The ratings are based off statistical testing for the response not a law set in stone. There are tons of useful measurements in the testing and it's up to you as an end user to determine how to use it.
 

Sancus

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According to WhatHIFI the R3 is one of the best speaker they have ever heard so the recommendation should be on score, no?
A lot of people love the LS50 (I don't have them) so why would you not recommend them?
Personal opinions are problematic and it is a bit confusing because it contradict the scores.
You're not really making much sense. A recommendation is always a reviewer's personal opinion. Whathifi has no relevance to the reviews on this site, nor do random peoples feelings about the LS50.

Amir puts the measurements in front of you, if you don't like his opinion you're free to form your own. Much more free than with reviews on any other site.

If you're looking for the kind of review where you skip to the conclusion and just buy what the reviewer tells you to, this isn't a great site for that honestly.
 
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Thread Starter #11
According to most of your posts than the R3 should not be recommended because it seems Amir did not like them.
It is a bit confusing why speakers are being recommended at the moment.
 

VintageFlanker

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#14
According to WhatHIFI the R3 is one of the best speaker they have ever heard so the recommendation should be on score, no?
Just about every year, WhatHifi review "one of the best speakers they've ever heard"... There is no value in that statement. We don't know about how they conducted the review, neither about their commercial relationship with Kef (must be very good, I guess).

As far as I'm concerned: I sent back the R3s only 5 days after I received them... There's also plenty of bad subjective experiences about these speakers out there. Does this mean the speakers are bad? Nope. Are they greatly engineered speakers? Yes.

Conclusion : There's not much value in any subjective statement. You have the data to guess how a speaker may sound. You still have to try it by yourself.
 

RayDunzl

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#15
"I hope this is an obvious thing to many of you but I want to make sure it is understood. When I test and recommend a product, it is based on its objective performance and my gut feeling about it overall. It is in no way vouching for the company, reliability of said product, fitness for whatever use you have for it, etc. You need to perform your own due diligence before purchasing these products.

Also, I have so many products to test that once I am done with one, I move on. I don't keep track of what all has happened after that, whether issues are discovered with it, etc. I can't revisit my reviews constantly to update it as such.

Use my reviews as one factor to base your purchase decision on. Not as the sole criteria."

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-members-regarding-recommended-products.9072/
 
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Thread Starter #16
Amir did recommend the R3 based on the strength of its measurements alone. He also came back and did a bit of EQ'ing on the R3 and liked them better on his subjective listening. Based on Amir's review of the R3, I bought a pair and am thoroughly enjoying them.
That is why it is confusing because without eq he did not like them so why did he recommended them?
It seems like Amir does not like Kef speakers and it is perfectly fine I just don't understand if he ignore the score or not because the R3 should not be recommended.
 
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Thread Starter #17
"I hope this is an obvious thing to many of you but I want to make sure it is understood. When I test and recommend a product, it is based on its objective performance and my gut feeling about it overall. It is in no way vouching for the company, reliability of said product, fitness for whatever use you have for it, etc. You need to perform your own due diligence before purchasing these products.

Also, I have so many products to test that once I am done with one, I move on. I don't keep track of what all has happened after that, whether issues are discovered with it, etc. I can't revisit my reviews constantly to update it as such.

Use my reviews as one factor to base your purchase decision on. Not as the sole criteria."

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-members-regarding-recommended-products.9072/
Thank you.
 

Sancus

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#19
That is why it is confusing because without eq he did not like them so why did he recommended them?
The issue with the R3 was that there was a room mode that needed to be EQed for them to sound good. This is why you should take every reviewer opinion with a grain of salt. Bass is a significant component of whether a speaker sounds good or not, and without EQ it's pretty much just tossing the dice to see how a speaker will interact with your room.

Personally I actually feel more EQ(ie: room correction) should be used with every speaker for listening tests, but there are various opinions of that. Regardless, there's too many variables involved to just boil it down to recommended or not. Recommended for what, where, multichannel, stereo, size of room, directivity preference? Etc.
 
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