Amazon So Called HD Music

[valerianf]

I got Amazon music HD with a trial period.
My usage is to send the sound to an AVR and listen on the speakers.
I tried two different player ways:
1) Roku Ultra using the HDMI output.
The Amazon music app on Roku does not find the HD recordings.
Sound quality is similar to standard Amazon music.
No interest.
2) An Android tablet is casted with a Vizio lcd tv that send the sound to the AVR using Arc or a Toslink cable.
I did not notice any difference between Arc and Toslink.
The Vizio TV send a sound encoded in DD.
Music quality is far better than the standard Amazon music, similar to CD quality.
I do not have any way to measure the bitrate at the AVR level.

Definitively I will keep Amazon music HD.
With the tablet navigation through Amazon music is easy.
Android casting is very easy too.
I do not know if there is a better way of getting hi resolution music to the AVR internal dac.

 

[Zensō]

16/44.1 is transparent, as is 256 AAC for a large majority.

https://cdvsmp3.wordpress.com/cd-vs-itunes-plus-blind-test-results/

 

[dezfowler]

Yeah it seems to be a limitation of android too. Its annoying from a I'm not getting what i paid for perspective. However I realised that it's kinda irrelevant as my hearing is done by around 17khz anyway on a good day. So extra bandwidth beyond 22khz is really a non-issue. It's a shame usb player pro hasnt got it covered yet. You can use it to force andriod to stream at full quality with qobuz and tidal. At least thats what it claims.

[deleted an inaccurate bit about sample rate ]

It's also not a limitation of Android it's a limitation of the DAC hardware in your phone. Some Android devices have good quality DACs but most don't. Android itself doesn't have any bearing on the quality. DAC quality is nothing to write home about in Apple products either, though. The original iPods had great DACs but after about the 7th gen I think is where they made cost savings and started putting rubbish in them.

That aside you should still hear an improvement moving from lossy compressed music to lossless CD quality audio that you get with Amazon Music HD (or Tidal or Qobuz) - the first thing most people notice is that the bass seems fuller when going lossless. There are diminishing returns, though, and most people with regular audio gear will not hear any improvement beyond that 44.1khz 16bit.

If you want good audio from a phone you need a dedicated portable USB DAC or some good quality Bluetooth headphones which support HD audio or aptX as they have their own DAC hardware. For digital audio quality the DAC is the key piece.

 

[BDWoody]

It's not related to the ~20hz - 20khz range of our hearing. It's related to how closely the digital data mirrors the original analog audio wave. The more samples per second, the closer it will be.

That's not how it works.

In fact, you are taking a lot of marketing, and little science. Not trying to scare you away, just hope you'll do a bit more reading.

 

[dmac6419]

The 44.1/48/96/192 khz is sample rate, not audio frequency. It's not related to the ~20hz - 20khz range of our hearing. It's related to how closely the digital data mirrors the original analog audio wave. The more samples per second, the closer it will be.

It's also not a limitation of Android it's a limitation of the DAC hardware in your phone. Some Android devices have good quality DACs but most don't. Android itself doesn't have any bearing on the quality. DAC quality is nothing to write home about in Apple products either, though. The original iPods had great DACs but after about the 7th gen I think is where they made cost savings and started putting rubbish in them.

That aside you should still hear an improvement moving from lossy compressed music to lossless CD quality audio that you get with Amazon Music HD (or Tidal or Qobuz) - the first thing most people notice is that the bass seems fuller when going lossless. There are diminishing returns, though, and most people with regular audio gear will not hear any improvement beyond that 44.1khz 16bit.

If you want good audio from a phone you need a dedicated portable USB DAC or some good quality Bluetooth headphones which support HD audio or aptX as they have their own DAC hardware. For digital audio quality the DAC is the key piece.

I had the original iPad and it sounded no better than my Walkman but I liked them both,because that's all we had then,my how portable music has advanced

 

[dezfowler]

That's not how it works.

In fact, you are taking a lot of marketing, and little science. Not trying to scare you away, just hope you'll do a bit more reading.

Interested... do you have a link to something I can read about that?

 

[BDWoody]

Interested... do you have a link to something I can read about that?

Here's the go-to. Very well explained.

 

[dezfowler]

Here's the go-to. Very well explained.

Great video and that did match my understanding but what I said was inaccurate so have removed that bit of my reply.

 

[Vini darko]

[deleted an inaccurate bit about sample rate ]

It's also not a limitation of Android it's a limitation of the DAC hardware in your phone. Some Android devices have good quality DACs but most don't. Android itself doesn't have any bearing on the quality. DAC quality is nothing to write home about in Apple products either, though. The original iPods had great DACs but after about the 7th gen I think is where they made cost savings and started putting rubbish in them.

That aside you should still hear an improvement moving from lossy compressed music to lossless CD quality audio that you get with Amazon Music HD (or Tidal or Qobuz) - the first thing most people notice is that the bass seems fuller when going lossless. There are diminishing returns, though, and most people with regular audio gear will not hear any improvement beyond that 44.1khz 16bit.

If you want good audio from a phone you need a dedicated portable USB DAC or some good quality Bluetooth headphones which support HD audio or aptX as they have their own DAC hardware. For digital audio quality the DAC is the key piece.

Hi. Android limits streamed content to 24bit 48khz. It's the same limit with all my android devices regardless of dac hardware. Eg my lg v40+ can do 32bit 384khz native and dsd. Streaming is still limited to 24/48 without usb player pro.
Audibility isn't the issue it's principle.

 

[witchdoctor]

I invested in a quality digital audio player and use it on the go and my primary streaming device in my HT, 100% worth it IMO.

 

[Vanboozin]

Hi. Android limits streamed content to 24bit 48khz. It's the same limit with all my android devices regardless of dac hardware. Streaming is still limited to 24/48 without usb player pro.
Audibility isn't the issue it's principle

Are you saying Android is not capable of higher than 24/48 or that Your devices are not capable ?
Pretty sure my android device is putting out higher than 24bit 48khz.
I stream from a Ethernet connected android tv box , USB OTG out of android box to USB input of Topping D10 Dac , Analog out of D10 to Analog in of AVR ( RCA's),
You can see the current sampling rates on the front of the D10. Is this somehow misleading me or ?
Whatever its doing it sounds great.

24bit 96khz playback with Android app

Dac shows 96khz sampling rate

24bit 192khz android playback

Dac shows 192khz sampling rate

I'm guessing its normal for sampling rate on AVR not showing since its Analog ?

 

[valerianf]

Vanboozing, looking at your pictures, I understand that your AVR has a 2.0 analog input when it provides a 2.1 analog output.
Are you sure that the AVR does not add a low sampling rate digital transform (ADC then DAC) to be able to apply frequency filters?
Usually the AVR DSP works at 44 or 48khz on the analog input, rarely at 96 kHz.

Why not to send directly 24/192khz to the AVR DAC and listen in straight or direct mode?
Then the AVR is internally working in full analog (2.0) mode after the DAC output.

 

[Vanboozin]

Funny i tried sending directly from the android box but now i see PCM 48khz ( thats over HDMI )
If i send it over spdif its the same thing, in both cases the bitrate is not shown.

 

[Vini darko]

Are you saying Android is not capable of higher than 24/48 or that Your devices are not capable ?
Pretty sure my android device is putting out higher than 24bit 48khz.
I stream from a Ethernet connected android tv box , USB OTG out of android box to USB input of Topping D10 Dac , Analog out of D10 to Analog in of AVR ( RCA's),
You can see the current sampling rates on the front of the D10. Is this somehow misleading me or ?
Whatever its doing it sounds great.

24bit 96khz playback with Android app
View attachment 105515

Dac shows 96khz sampling rate
View attachment 105516

24bit 192khz android playback
View attachment 105517

Dac shows 192khz sampling rate
View attachment 105518

I'm guessing its normal for sampling rate on AVR not showing since its Analog ?
View attachment 105519

Apologies I should have specified it's phones that are limited maybe tablets too. Dedicated streamers should go higher as yours does.

 

[julian_hughes]

Plenty of Android phones support audio beyond Google's 48 kHz limited framework (the manufacturers make their own audio subsystem). I had an LG V20 which supported up to 24-bit 192 kHz. My current Sony XZ1 is capable of this and DSD playback too. On Android devices which do use Google's regular audio framework you can use a USB DAC and then an app such as Neutron Music Player or USB Audio Player Pro will give you bit perfect playback at whatever that hardware supports.

 

[Vanboozin]

Why not to send directly 24/192khz to the AVR DAC and listen in straight or direct mode?
Then the AVR is internally working in full analog (2.0) mode after the DAC output.

How would I accomplish getting the 24/192 directly to the AVR ?

For my headphone setup its always USB out of android device into a dac, then to an amp.
But for the home theater AVR I am kinda lost as to getting the stream or files fed directly to it as valerianf is suggesting ?

USB wont work as the only port is on the front & the AVR only recognizes a fat 32 formatted thumb drive. Then i'm left with the 3.5mm which doesn't seem ideal either .

I simply want to stream or play offline Amazon Music HD files from an android device with no encoding or resampling to my Yamaha AVR , how does one accomplish this ?

 

[valerianf]

"How would I accomplish getting the 24/192 directly to the AVR ?"
It is very simple, i did it without wanted it!
You need the latest Amazon Fire Stick 4k UHD.
After update of the software the default setting will send 2.0 192khz.

If you do not get it you need to modify 2 menus:
In the stick configuration you need to choose PCM.
In the Amazon music HD configuration you need to choose best quality.
That it, it works with my 10 years old AVR (Yamaha).

 

[Vanboozin]

Im determined to get this going so I Purchased an Amazon Fire TV 4K today, seems rediculous as i already have a Nvidia Shield TV, Roku Streaming Stick Plus , Beelink BT King , Alienware 17 R3 Laptop, Samsung Tablet and a whack of Smart phones....yet i cannot stream Amazon HD music and send the UNprocessed signal to my AVR....( I just have not found the correct combo of device and type of connector to do so )

So....plugged the Firestick into My TV , went through the basic setup, then updated the software ( there was 2 firmware updates after the software instalation )
Went into Audio settings...I did not see an option to output PCM as mentioned, only an option to select "Stereo" "Best Available" "Always Dolby Digital Plus" and "Always Dolby Digital"
I tried Stereo to start, then installed Amazon music HD & logged in, Enabled "Ultra HD"
started playing tracks & the best it will do is 24bit 48khz....i was using SPDIF out to my AVR.
Decided to just plug the stick into the back of my AVR so i did that and checked all the quality settings again, same thing 24/48 was the max output with ARC enabled & all settings on max.

So basically another Fail, its close but not quite,yes it sounds pretty good but the goal is to find a way to output the track quality directly to my AVR , whether its 16/44 or 24/192....

Kinda weird the Firestick does not allow for storage expansion, how to people stream offline if you cant download your playlists ?
I guess ypu have to live stream constantly.

I also logged into my Nas and played a bunch of movie clips with different audio, it would not play DTS , it converts everything to DD which i didnt like either, but thats not why i bought it.

Maybe I am missing something but i have yet another media streamer that will not output the Highest Quality Amazon Music Stream available Directly to my AVR Unprocessed.

Nutz

 

[Bamyasi]

Im determined to get this going so I Purchased an Amazon Fire TV 4K today, seems rediculous as i already have a Nvidia Shield TV, Roku Streaming Stick Plus , Beelink BT King , Alienware 17 R3 Laptop, Samsung Tablet and a whack of Smart phones....yet i cannot stream Amazon HD music and send the UNprocessed signal to my AVR....( I just have not found the correct combo of device and type of connector to do so )

So....plugged the Firestick into My TV , went through the basic setup, then updated the software ( there was 2 firmware updates after the software instalation )
Went into Audio settings...I did not see an option to output PCM as mentioned, only an option to select "Stereo" "Best Available" "Always Dolby Digital Plus" and "Always Dolby Digital"
I tried Stereo to start, then installed Amazon music HD & logged in, Enabled "Ultra HD"
started playing tracks & the best it will do is 24bit 48khz....i was using SPDIF out to my AVR.
Decided to just plug the stick into the back of my AVR so i did that and checked all the quality settings again, same thing 24/48 was the max output with ARC enabled & all settings on max.

So basically another Fail, its close but not quite,yes it sounds pretty good but the goal is to find a way to output the track quality directly to my AVR , whether its 16/44 or 24/192....

Kinda weird the Firestick does not allow for storage expansion, how to people stream offline if you cant download your playlists ?
I guess ypu have to live stream constantly.

I also logged into my Nas and played a bunch of movie clips with different audio, it would not play DTS , it converts everything to DD which i didnt like either, but thats not why i bought it.

Maybe I am missing something but i have yet another media streamer that will not output the Highest Quality Amazon Music Stream available Directly to my AVR Unprocessed.

Nutz

1. Audio setting on the Fire Stick 4K is now called "Stereo" after the latest Fire OS update. Weirdly enough, on the newer Fire Stick Lite (2020) it is still called "PCM" even while its OS version number is more recent. Go figure. But it is essentially the same option.

2. You can attach external storage via USB OTG cable to your stick if you need more space, Google or search Youtube for step-by-step instructions, there is plenty.

3. Try rebooting your Firestick 4K a couple more times and then leave it on and connected overnight. Then check About->Updates once again. From my experience, it needs at least two more component updates installed for 24/192 option to appear. Then go to the Apps section and check Amazon Music HD app version, this will update the app itself if it has not occurred automatically already. Yes, it is a convoluted process and you will have to be patient.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bamyasi]

I can also suggest installing official Amazon Fire TV Stick app on your mobile phone or tablet. It makes searching for music much easier since you can then use the regular mobile keyboard for typing in song or artist names.