Amazon Music HD up scales everything. So...?

[Tks]

How might this be done?

I suppose if someone were to buy a track from Amazon and download it, that could then be played back on another media player.

Who can do this?

Amazon sells lossless files?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I don’t buy anything from them as I stream. I presumed that, if you buy something, it comes in the highest quality available.

Perhaps not.

 

[julian_hughes]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Julian. It's impressive. I worry about including an outward facing server in our home network.

Another way to do it is to also run a vpn server or socks proxy on your home network and access your LAN from elsewhere only via those. That way you can run a firewall with minimal exposed ports and no services accessible unless you have a secure key. For different reasons I do run wireguard VPN and sometimes shadowsocks (socks proxy) and also multiple other services on different devices at home (Calibre book server, tvheadend server, mosh, ssh, ssl, letsencrypt). Some services I need to make available to people with only username and password authentication and who I can't reasonably expect to configure a vpn or proxy client so I have to be flexible, but if it was just for me I can see myself just opening a port for wireguard and maybe another for shadowsocks (I'd prefer only wireguard but some mobile ISPs throttle or even drop UDP packets and so sometimes I need an alternative). Anyway there are different ways to get the same or similar result but of course if you're happy to run a server at home then you have great flexibility & advantages over relying entirely on what is offered via apps and web access.

 

[Jbrunwa]

I believe the mobile app on iOS does change sample rate automatically. So someone at Amazon Music HQ does know what's required and how to do it. Primephonic does change sample rates directly from the browser on Mac OS X but only when using the optical output (won't do it now for me on USB). Nope not working for me now either. Perhaps there's an issue with web browsers changing sample rate, requires native app with more permissions. In that case, Amazon Music should build a real Mac app and not piggyback on an Electron based browser app.

HEOS also automatically sets and shows the sample rate for each song played on Amazon Music HD based on the source material, I suppose.

 

[Alec Kinnear]

I don’t buy anything from them as I stream. I presumed that, if you buy something, it comes in the highest quality available.

Perhaps not.

Amazon are not selling their hires/HD master files yet. I'm sure Amazon will come for hires music soon too (Qobuz and HDTracks and the rest better get ready). The real money right now though is in streaming so there's probably a good two or three years before Amazon starts to sell hires downloads. The HD streaming service will provide the infrastructure and the funding to build out the sale of downloads.

HEOS also automatically sets and shows the sample rate for each song played on Amazon Music HD based on the source material, I suppose.

Interesting notion. Has anyone checked if HEOS does play Amazon HD and switch sample rate? My guess is that HEOS does not yet support Amazon HD Music. I've just tested the Amazon Music HD app on iOS again with an RME ADI-2 DAC FS. The app just sets the sample rate to 192 kHz regardless of the original sample rate. Switching back to another music app, sample rate switches back to 44.1 kHz. Switching back Amazon Music HD app, sample rate jumps back up to 192 kHz, even when playing back CD quality 44.1 kHz sample rate music. Forced upsampling isn't the worst solution. Sounds pretty good but I prefer the optical output from my Mac Pro 2012 manually set to the correct sample rate. Setting the Mac Pro optical out to upsample to 96 kHz sounds similar to the iPhone at 192 kHz but has a fuller sound than the iPhone and is significantly louder (even though both are digital signals, iPhone is using USB input of RME ADI-2 DAC FS). This test was with Guns n' Roses Knockin' on Heaven's Door at 44.1 kHz.

With Fleetwood Mac's Dreams (2004 Remaster) which is a 96 kHz 24 bit track, levels are much more similar and both Mac Pro and iPhone sound better. There is still slightly more body on the Mac Pro perhaps because the sample rate is an exact match. There are some tracks which sound great on Amazon Music HD and some which sound worse than Spotify due to either encoding or sample rate mismatch. The iPhone playback over several songs is consistently too brittle and thin to my taste. I won't be listening to Amazon Music HD via iPhone again. Spotify playback at 44.1 kHz on iPhone app is much louder than Amazon Music HD and seems to have more body. There seems to be slightly less resolution in the high frequencies (10 kHz and above) but this may just be a sample rate issue or due to knowing that Spotify compression skimps on high frequency detail to save space. Overall, the Spotify stream iOS stream sounds better than the Amazon Music HD (tested track for reference: Billy Idol White Wedding). None of this is my normal music diet (more music from my teenage years) but I usually start from the Ultra HD Classic Rock playlist as it's convenient to have a set of Ultra HD tracks all in one place.

Amazon certainly has some work to do on its HD playback apps! Very glad I'm not paying for this and just enjoying it on a free trial.

The trial at this point is not very persuasive. I haven't even been able to find a listening history as exists on Spotify – if you're experimenting with a bunch of new music (playlists picked up from forums on the internet) – not being able to go back to see what one searched for and listened to is quite annoying. The workaround is to add any new music to a new music playlist as one tries it out, a silly make-work project which Spotify avoids.

 

[Jbrunwa]

Has anyone checked if HEOS does play Amazon HD and switch sample rate? My guess is that HEOS does not yet support Amazon HD Music.

Well, I can't definitively say. It shows the sample rate for each song in upper left corner. Here is a photo also showing an overlay of the info button
from the receiver.
EDIT: Checking the information screen on the receivers web interface reports different sample rates for different songs.

 

[Alec Kinnear]

Well, I can't definitively say. It shows the sample rate for each song in upper left corner. Here is a photo also showing an overlay of the info button
from the receiver.
EDIT: Checking the information screen on the receivers web interface reports different sample rates for different songs.

Awesome. HEOS is a good start to Amazon Music HD switching sample rates, rather than just adapting to whatever sample rate one has preset (desktop Mac Amazon Music HD app) or sending everything out at 192 kHz (iOS).

 

[Bernard23]

18+ months later, and it's still not fixed.

Amazon Digital and Device Forums - US

Amazon Digital and Device Forum United States

www.amazonforum.com

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

18+ months later, and it's still not fixed.

Amazon Digital and Device Forums - US

Amazon Digital and Device Forum United States

www.amazonforum.com

The biggest disappointment here is that Amazon continue to miss an open goal.

They have the sheer size to sort out every single audiophile problem, issue, glitch, PITA, and murmur in our community, and by Amazon's standards it'd cost them next to nothing.

In doing so they could completely corner the audiophile market, and whilst that market is small, it would be a huge advert in their own front window.

Just imagine for a second...

1 - Amazon Music app and desktop app come with their own PEQ
2 - Amazon produce an own-brand, hi-res music streaming device (think Fire TV stick, but optimised for music), with a great DAC and separate HDMI out, meaning you could steam hi-res unadulterated, and see lyrics/artwork/booklets on your screen at the same time
3 - Oh, and while they're at it, sort this constant upscale issue out

1 would be a piece of cake. Seriously, 'free-to-user' desktop apps like EQ APO can do it, Qudelix can do it, does anyone believe Amazon couldn't do it without a ruffle to the balance sheet?
2 - They're 90% of the way there already. But imagine the publicity. Now, your multi-disc boxed sets with a hardback book can have the contents of said book streamed on to your 65" TV. Charge $1 a month extra to be in the club.
3 - Seriously?

As I say, the benefits would be huge.

 

[Bernard23]

Pretty much sums up my feelings too, mots odd that they're apparently ignored all the feedback for what would be relatively a 2 minute job.

 

[julian_hughes]

The biggest disappointment here is that Amazon continue to miss an open goal.

They have the sheer size to sort out every single audiophile problem, issue, glitch, PITA, and murmur in our community, and by Amazon's standards it'd cost them next to nothing.

In doing so they could completely corner the audiophile market, and whilst that market is small, it would be a huge advert in their own front window.

Just imagine for a second...

1 - Amazon Music app and desktop app come with their own PEQ
2 - Amazon produce an own-brand, hi-res music streaming device (think Fire TV stick, but optimised for music), with a great DAC and separate HDMI out, meaning you could steam hi-res unadulterated, and see lyrics/artwork/booklets on your screen at the same time
3 - Oh, and while they're at it, sort this constant upscale issue out

1 would be a piece of cake. Seriously, 'free-to-user' desktop apps like EQ APO can do it, Qudelix can do it, does anyone believe Amazon couldn't do it without a ruffle to the balance sheet?
2 - They're 90% of the way there already. But imagine the publicity. Now, your multi-disc boxed sets with a hardback book can have the contents of said book streamed on to your 65" TV. Charge $1 a month extra to be in the club.
3 - Seriously?

As I say, the benefits would be huge.

But why would they spend even one penny on any of this? It's meaningless for 99.99% of their customers. All it will do is add menu options and settings to their apps that almost none of their customers need or want.

Btw with Qobuz I can look at the album pdf booklet or metadata while passing or queuing the lossless playback to other apps such as BubbleUPnP. Once an app allows you to share to a UPnP client you can render the audio as you like. For example on Android you can use your device's built in audio, or pass the audio to an Android playback app such as Neutron Player or UAPP, or pass the stream to streamer connected to your domestic HiFi and so on.

There are choices. There probably isn't one ideal solution, but nobody should hold their breath waiting for Amazon or Apple or Google to cater to niche markets. People who really care about playback quality and interoperability and not being restricted in which apps or hardware they use to play their audio? We are a *tiny* niche market.

 

[Bernard23]

But why would they spend even one penny on any of this? It's meaningless for 99.99% of their customers. All it will do is add menu options and settings to their apps that almost none of their customers need or want.

Btw with Qobuz I can look at the album pdf booklet or metadata while passing or queuing the lossless playback to other apps such as BubbleUPnP. Once an app allows you to share to a UPnP client you can render the audio as you like. For example on Android you can use your device's built in audio, or pass the audio to an Android playback app such as Neutron Player or UAPP, or pass the stream to streamer connected to your domestic HiFi and so on.

There are choices. There probably isn't one ideal solution, but nobody should hold their breath waiting for Amazon or Apple or Google to cater to niche markets. People who really care about playback quality and interoperability and not being restricted in which apps or hardware they use to play their audio? We are a *tiny* niche market.

So why did they bother fixing the exclusive mode? Why other with HD? Spotify have realised that CD quality is not a worthwhile value add for their business model. Just seems that AHD have done 80% of a job for no apparent reason.

 

[julian_hughes]

So why did they bother fixing the exclusive mode? Why other with HD? Spotify have realised that CD quality is not a worthwhile value add for their business model. Just seems that AHD have done 80% of a job for no apparent reason.

They've done what they needed to do to match Apple and Tidal when it comes to marketing "HD" or "Hi Res" audio. No mystery. They address and fix the faults that lose them customers and cost them revenue and they ignore everything else. It's about the money, not the music.

 

[Bernard23]

They've done what they needed to do to match Apple and Tidal when it comes to marketing "HD" or "Hi Res" audio. No mystery. They address and fix the faults that lose them customers and cost them revenue and they ignore everything else. It's about the money, not the music.

Yes that's obvious, but why bother fixing exc mode? Only the 0.1% of us notice. The same folk that noticed (and complained) about the resampling issue, which is not fixed and stops us from subscribing.

 

[julian_hughes]

Maybe that was easy and cheap? Or enough people cancelled? Who knows?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

But why would they spend even one penny on any of this? It's meaningless for 99.99% of their customers. All it will do is add menu options and settings to their apps that almost none of their customers need or want.

Btw with Qobuz I can look at the album pdf booklet or metadata while passing or queuing the lossless playback to other apps such as BubbleUPnP. Once an app allows you to share to a UPnP client you can render the audio as you like. For example on Android you can use your device's built in audio, or pass the audio to an Android playback app such as Neutron Player or UAPP, or pass the stream to streamer connected to your domestic HiFi and so on.

There are choices. There probably isn't one ideal solution, but nobody should hold their breath waiting for Amazon or Apple or Google to cater to niche markets. People who really care about playback quality and interoperability and not being restricted in which apps or hardware they use to play their audio? We are a *tiny* niche market.

Why should they? I think I answered that in the post you quoted.

If they were to sort these (quick, easy, cheap) issues out, they effectively shore up the audiophile community.

Whilst it’s small, it’s influential.

As has been said above, why ‘go HD’ at all. No one outside the audiophile community was asking for it.

 

[Grooved]

Why should they? I think I answered that in the post you quoted.

If they were to sort these (quick, easy, cheap) issues out, they effectively shore up the audiophile community.

Whilst it’s small, it’s influential.

As has been said above, why ‘go HD’ at all. No one outside the audiophile community was asking for it.

If I'm not wrong, they only had OGG at 320kbps, or something like that.
They added both FLAC 16/44.1 (for all the catalog) that they call HD, and FLAC 24/... (for part of the catalog) at the same time, so it was more going lossless than going HD
Now, they could simply add FLAC 16/44.1 whitout going Hi-Res too

 

[Jimbob54]

Just reviving this on the off chance things might have moved on.

I was thinking of going amazon music exclusive mode (for bit pefect out of the pc) to rme adi 2 then using its on board eq rather than eapo on the pc with everything resampled by Windows.

Would I still be wasting my time?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I can't answer that, but I'll have a look at the bitrate when I get chance.

Not sure when that'll be, as I disappear to Skiathos for 10 nights on Wednesday.

 

[Bernard23]

I try it out every 6 months or so, just the simple test of checking whether exclusive mode is fixed or not. It wasn't last time I looked back at Xmas time.