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Amazon launches lossless high-res music service!

gvl

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How do you listen to Spotify?
Spotify Connect, at least on the surface, would appear to be the best way to connect if your system has a way to use it.
Your receiver, etc then connects directly to Spotify premium and "should" be delivering the best SQ that its' 320kbps has to offer.
That's in theory at least, it's difficult for me to understand exactly how the stream is handled, and my Marantz has no way to examime what the data rate is that it's DAC is getting.

Mainly CCA at home or Windows app at work through the JRMC WDM driver. Have a Denon receiver with Spotify Connect that works too, but that's for secondary and patio speaker use. Btw "connect" and CCA devices get 256kbps AAC streams.
 

Sal1950

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Where did you read of that limitation for Connect with things other than CCA?
 

watchnerd

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Includes a high resolution 24bit/192khz option.

No mention of MQA needed for that.

Does the mean the death of MQA?
 

Sal1950

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gvl

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Where did you read of that limitation for Connect with things other than CCA?

You mean 256kbps AAC? Hardly a limitation, AAC is a better codec and at 256kbps is probably about the same as 320kbps Ogg Vorbis quality wise or even better. The types of streams for various devices are listed on the Spotify site somewhere, don't have a link just Google it.
 

audimus

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For people playing through a PC, there is a way to get any sound out of the PC into WASAPI/WDM/ASIO using the free Voicemeeter virtual mixer. You don’t need to to use any of its features. Its installation creates a virtual sound card like J River and you make that the default sound device. You can then direct the Voicemeeter output to any physical sound card using any of the supported modes. It is just a digital transfer without any processing. You can even record what you are playing digitally but I have not tried this. This works on anything that does not have a HDCP like DRM attached to content to test the whole path. Amazon music does not seem to.
 
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Sal1950

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You mean 256kbps AAC? Hardly a limitation, AAC is a better codec and at 256kbps is probably about the same as 320kbps Ogg Vorbis quality wise or even better. The types of streams for various devices are listed on the Spotify site somewhere, don't have a link just Google it.
Premium Desktop rate is 320 Ogg which should stream directly into the receiving device with Connect. That would then be the best possible SQ path. If CCA's are doing a conversion to AAC, it still not going to improve on the source.
The Web player runs at 128 ACC on the free line and 256 ACC with Premium.
 

audimus

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Insurance needed the cases. I didn't have most of them. Some may not have been exactly purchased. I did have insurance. They also stole a multichannel ADC, well, the card. They didn't take the external piece.

Oh, the early 2000s....

still don't see why people would buy music today rather than a sub, but I guess you can still buy DVDs too.

Too much kvetching.

This is almost 2020. All of my owned CDs have been digitized by me and stored in media server. The CDs are the back up for this stored away in a different place. Zero chance of losing both at the same time. Disk drives are cheap and I can carry the music or specific playlists anywhere regardless of whether I am connected there or not. This is important if one travels a lot or goes into places outside of the urban areas.

Streaming services don’t work for me (and this is where the proponents of these services miss/obfuscate the math) because I land up paying again and again for the same set of music I typically listen to. My tastes are such that there isn’t a new one being released every month that I want to listen to. Music discovery is through the various specialized Internet radio stations that I trust for good filtering and I buy when I like something that I hear. I don’t have the time to browse the catalog frequently to see if I like something. Internet Radio can be multi-tasked.

To each his own, but I get tired of hearing that owning music is somehow being a relic. This is like the annoying people who insist cars should always be leased. Yes and no.

I am not averse to buying digital copies of music instead of physical CDs, just the subscription model.
 

gvl

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Premium Desktop rate is 320 Ogg which should stream directly into the receiving device with Connect. That would then be the best possible SQ path. If CCA's are doing a conversion to AAC, it still not going to improve on the source.
The Web player runs at 128 ACC on the free line and 256 ACC with Premium.

Connect devices and CCA pull AAC streams directly from Spotify servers, the Desktop client doesn't receive the stream when it controls a connect or chromecast device.

Seems Spotify removed information about Chromecast sound quality but I dug it up on the internet archive, but previously listed was the same as the web player. I couldn't find anything specific about the quality that "connect" devices use, so maybe I made it up, but ultimately it is up to each device to play the highest rate and the format it supports for the current subscription tier.

2019-09-18 21_13_02-Audio settings - Spotify.png
 

danadam

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First, there is digital signal processing software, which is used to accurately measure dynamic range, peak-to-peak, peak-to-mean, and calculate average loudness in advance of playback... as well as apply correction (up or down) to music levels or specific frequencies.

There is also mention of how simple loudness controls work.

Third, there's a good explanation of equal loudness curves which is where things come together for the listener.

These explanations go beyond the OP's question (equal loudness on or off?) but might help him/her develop a deeper understanding of the subject in order to make up their own mind on what's best for them.

A great deal influences what we perceive to be "louder". Sometimes it is peak spl, other times it is the spl at a critical frequency, etc. DR range can also play a role, especially on highly compressed tracks. Many rabbit holes to follow.
Maybe it's just my lack of faith in people's ability to pay attention to details but I have a feeling that with "loudness normalization" name being so similar to "loudness control" (or compensation), many people will read in this article about "boosting lows and highs" or "compensating DSP filters" and will wrongly assume that this is what streaming services are doing.

I hope I'm wrong.
 

day7a1

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Too much kvetching.
That's a bit uncalled for, isn't it? Using a fancy word to insult someone doesn't make you less of a jerk. I wasn't responding to you and you didn't have to read it.

I will agree that listening styles can be very different. I tend to listen to newly released material which would add up quickly if I were to buy it. I definitely listen to more than one new full album a month.

If you listen to the same stuff over and over and over, then sure. Own it. But I bet most people hardly ever open the DVDs on their shelf, either.

Regarding being a relic, you seem awfully concerned with what other people think and how other people play their music. I was just curious, having life funnel me in the streaming direction to become an early adopter.

But you're legit frustrated. I'm sorry that something made you feel that way.
 

audimus

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That's a bit uncalled for, isn't it? Using a fancy word to insult someone doesn't make you less of a jerk. I wasn't responding to you and you didn't have to read it.
First, it is not an insult to you since you were going on and on about your theft. It is a very precise word for that for which there is no good equivalent in English.

Even if it was an insult, it was completely called for because of your asinine condescending tone in
still don't see why people would buy music today rather than a sub, but I guess you can still buy DVDs too.
The above was an ignorant insult for everyone that buys CDs. Grow up. Or take what you can dish out.

Rather than come out like an insurance salesman peddling insurance with an isolated incident to stoke fear, you could have just said why it works for you as you did now rather than the stupid statement or bringing up the DVDs again which is irrelevant. Unlike videos, music is listened over and over again and much more often. Shelf life is much longer than most videos.

You want to see a jerk? Look in a mirror first.
 

day7a1

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DVDs again which is irrelevan
You really, really misjudged my tone.

I honestly didn't understand it. I was legitimately curious. You explained it just fine. And the DVDs are a good example of the fact that people do still buy disks, with the difference being only that you can buy DVDs in almost any store but not CDs, so DVD sales are visible where CD sales aren't. It's just an observation I had.

 

day7a1

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Be nice to each other

I think if he saw the context that wasn't linked through replies in my conversation earlier he'd understand it had nothing to do with CDs, really.

I did not realize that there was any sensitivity regarding the issue at all. I guess I should apologize. I waded into waters of unknown current.
 

Soniclife

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Premium Desktop rate is 320 Ogg which should stream directly into the receiving device with Connect. That would then be the best possible SQ path. If CCA's are doing a conversion to AAC, it still not going to improve on the source.
Connect devices differ in what they are sent from Spotify, probably hardware and codec license driven. My Devialet amps are sent 256 aac I believe.
There is no lossy to lossy conversion going on.
 

doctorjuggles

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@day7a1 - I can explain the attraction from my own point of view. I’ve loved and collected music for ages, humans have a recurring love of collections anyway. So there is that, but another reason for me was that, while everything is somewhat more settled now, for a long period throughout the 00s and early 10s, there were huge format wars when it came to file types. The humble mp3 has always been popular this era, but full resolution downloads were not easily available (if at all), there were issues around transparency and encoding, even simple things like the technical illegality of ripping your own CD, DAPs were nowhere near as versatile with file types....etc. etc.

All the while, I felt happy that if I owned the CD, at worst I could re-rip it to the latest and greatest format without having to repurchase, or I could have lossless and lossy copies depending on usage requirements, and I actually owned “a thing” for my money. If you stop subscribing to a streaming service, you have zero music. I will (hopefully) never be musicless.

I also really used to enjoy shutting the cacophony of familial noise from my life and getting lost in the CD liner notes and lyrics, I ended up far more immersed in the music that way and, regardless of where the future takes us, I’ll always have that little urge inside me to view an album as a thing worth owning as well as worth streaming.
I also appreciate the endless discovery options of streaming too. So I’m also very pleased with our new options, my CD collection blends well with my Tidal sub and Roon software, each informs the other seamlessly.

One final point, my vinyl collection simply cannot be touched by any streaming service. A vast percentage simply is not, and never will be, available on any streaming platform and even if it eventually became available, it would be months after it would have been useful in a DJ/club environment.

Hope that gives you an idea on why at least some of us are attached to physical media :)
 

Sal1950

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There is no lossy to lossy conversion going on.
I was addressing the external Chromecast box, no idea what goes on inside there.
Impossible to get hard info on what Spotify streams to what. One source says it's Ogg another AAC The data rate display in my Marantz 7703 doesn't report anything while in Connect mode.
Whatever it is works fine for me and will probably stay there until someone offers multich streaming. The damn available discs are toooo expensive in general. I'm looking at the Amazon 90 day test but the Connect feature is a hard one to lose.
 

day7a1

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I can explain the attraction from my own point of view.
Oh, I totally get having CDs. It's not reasonable for me to try to start up a collection now, but I certainly wouldn't mind having one. I do have some vinyl from my DJ days that I could probably dig out. CDs are great.

If you go back you'll see that I was out of the industry for a bit and not following things. Now that I'm trying to get back into listening more seriously I am surprised that CDs are still around. Just from where they seemed to be going to now, I really didn't think they would be. Perhaps I should have been more clear by saying "pleasantly surprised".

But if you go back in context I was more surprised that people buy new files of music, as in do things to own the file. I'm actually less surprised that some people would rather buy a CD or vinyl than I am that people would buy and download the MP3, which is an option on Amazon's UI. Like I said there, I've done it, but it was my only option.

If I had known this was a touchy subject I would have chosen my words more carefully.

I'm truly sorry if I made it sound like I was judging other peoples format preferences. Play 8-tracks for all I care.
 

Soniclife

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I was addressing the external Chromecast box, no idea what goes on inside there.
If you mean the Chromecast audio it's sent 256 AAC as well.
You're quite right to not worry about it, the design and implementation makes sense, there is nothing inferior about the aac streams, you pay for quality lossy, and you get it.
 
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