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AMA about the Topping D90 (non-MQA version)

dandreye

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ichonderoga:

Thank you: clear now. I recall reading somewhere that the HW of the MQA version is "totally different" and so was unsure which particular audio path has changed and how much. If it's just XU216 and it's only there for MQA audio then I don't see the point in the MQA version in my particular case.
 
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ichonderoga

ichonderoga

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ichonderoga:

Thank you: clear now. I recall reading somewhere that the HW of the MQA version is "totally different" and so was unsure which particular audio path has changed and how much. If it's just XU216 and it's only there for MQA audio then I don't see the point in the MQA version in my particular case.
Yeah PR fluff. I myself don't believe in paying more for this or any other proprietary lossy format. Nomatter your choice I can wholeheartedly tell you that the D90 is an awesome DAC!
 

dandreye

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Sorry one more question if I may: what kind of headphones would pair best with non-MQA D90 from SQ perspective assuming connecting them directly into the D90 w/o any amp? (perhaps particular makes and models as examples of the right ones would be best) Thinking about listening to it via more or less decent quality headphones lately because of severe lack of space for an amp+speakers, which isn't going to change anytime soon. E.g. both Philips SHP9500 and X2HR seem to be getting pretty good reviews from all over the place but are they anywhere near those ideally needed for D90? Btw while reading those X2HR reviews I saw someone say they won't compare to the likes of AKG K702 that cost about the same - but those seem to be designed more for work rather than leisure if I got it right.
 
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ichonderoga

ichonderoga

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Sorry one more question if I may: what kind of headphones would pair best with non-MQA D90 from SQ perspective assuming connecting them directly into the D90 w/o any amp? (perhaps particular makes and models as examples of the right ones would be best) Thinking about listening to it via more or less decent quality headphones lately because of severe lack of space for an amp+speakers, which isn't going to change anytime soon. E.g. both Philips SHP9500 and X2HR seem to be getting pretty good reviews from all over the place but are they anywhere near those ideally needed for D90? Btw while reading those X2HR reviews I saw someone say they won't compare to the likes of AKG K702 that cost about the same - but those seem to be designed more for work rather than leisure if I got it right.
Help me a bit here. Without an amp you won't hear a thing. The D90 only delivers line-out (either through RCA or XLR) or below and nothing else. This is pre-amplification (hence pre-amp), not power-amplification. My own combo is the Topping L30 (head-amp) + Sennheiser Drop HD 6XX (aka HD650) and love it! See more here .. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ama-about-the-topping-l30.15907/

But honestly dipping your toes into this territory I would go for the DACs SMSL Sanskrit 10th MKII https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-sanskrit-10th-mkii-v2-ak4493-edition.12410/ or the Topping E30 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/ both measure excellent and are the price/performance kings. All can be had for a fraction of the D90s costs alone.

Concerning the AKGs I don't like their sound signature and that's why I bought the Sennheisers this year, and haven't looked back since ... you can easily get help here ... https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/
 
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dandreye

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ichonderoga:

Thanks a lot for pointing at those few DACs: I'll definitely think about them both. Wrt direct connection of the headphones to the DAC, e.g. I've been doing exactly that with my cheap JVC HA-RX300 and a likewise cheap TDA1387-based USB DAC with line RCA out and although the sound volume may vary quite a bit from song to song it's loud enough at just 20% volume in my laptop that the DAC is connected to. The RX300 are 32 Ohm and so are SHP9500, which made me think direct connection would work likewise well for the latter ones too - or not? Btw I've even seen it mentioned here and there that due to such resistance the headphones need no amp if I got it right (whether SQ is better with an amp is a different story).
 
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ichonderoga

ichonderoga

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ichonderoga:

Thanks a lot for pointing at those few DACs: I'll definitely think about them both. Wrt direct connection of the headphones to the DAC, e.g. I've been doing exactly that with my cheap JVC HA-RX300 and a likewise cheap TDA1387-based USB DAC with line RCA out and although the sound volume may vary quite a bit from song to song it's loud enough at just 20% volume in my laptop that the DAC is connected to. The RX300 are 32 Ohm and so are SHP9500, which made me think direct connection would work likewise well for the latter ones too - or not? Btw I've even seen it mentioned here and there that due to such resistance the headphones need no amp if I got it right (whether SQ is better with an amp is a different story).
I don't use low impedance HPs (besides Apple EarPods). And didn't know that using pre-amp line-out for driving HP was a thing. Sure at low impedance loads I can see this working but line-out is either <2v RCA or <4v XLR and expecting a certain impedance range - I cannot imagine that the pre-amp circuitry is built for the variance in load that different pairs of HP inccur. It might work, it might not - but considering we're talking about a 500$ device I would pair it with a HeadAMP to do it and the HP justice. BTW Happy New Year :)
 

dandreye

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By connecting them directly I was hoping to avoid getting pulled into the process of choosing yet another piece of kit (an HP amp) but if it really helps with SQ... perhaps I should consider it indeed. Meanwhile do you think it's possible to hear the "SQ premium" of the D90 or one of those 2 cheaper DAC alternatives you mentioned above even with SHP9500 or X2HR or I'd need way better HPs to really hear most of it? I somehow have my mind set on one of those 2 Philips HPs (at least for a start) based on what I've read about them so far.

Happy New Year to you too! )

Update: Have to admit that I really like both SMSL Sanskrit 10th MkII and Topping E30 based on those reviews to the extent that D90 is now out. We have the E30 just listed here on Ebay UK at just under GBP100 but the other one would cost even less shipped from China and fortunately I'm in no rush whatsoever. The only thing I'll be lacking in the one I end up choosing is BT, which I guess I can feed into it even from a cheap BT receiver. The real challenge now is to choose between one and the other )
 
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ichonderoga

ichonderoga

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By connecting them directly I was hoping to avoid getting pulled into the process of choosing yet another piece of kit (an HP amp) but if it really helps with SQ... perhaps I should consider it indeed. Meanwhile do you think it's possible to hear the "SQ premium" of the D90 or one of those 2 cheaper DAC alternatives you mentioned above even with SHP9500 or X2HR or I'd need way better HPs to really hear most of it? I somehow have my mind set on one of those 2 Philips HPs (at least for a start) based on what I've read about them so far.

Happy New Year to you too! )

Update: Have to admit that I really like both SMSL Sanskrit 10th MkII and Topping E30 based on those reviews to the extent that D90 is now out. We have the E30 just listed here on Ebay UK at just under GBP100 but the other one would cost even less shipped from China and fortunately I'm in no rush whatsoever. The only thing I'll be lacking in the one I end up choosing is BT, which I guess I can feed into it even from a cheap BT receiver. The real challenge now is to choose between one and the other )
I would never hesitate in ordering one (or both) of the two cheaper DACs since they are awesome price/performance kings and it's hard to beat them. Better yet get the combo E30 + L30 and enjoy the cash left over. The D90 is a great device but considering it's five times the price and only marginally better I would only recommend it to the diehards who have tried everything else.
 
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dandreye

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I'm also inclining more towards E30 here for a number of reasons, particularly 'cos I've already owned a D10 once and still remember how much positively surprised I was with its build quality. The feeling is that the Sanskrit sellers are discounting their device to compensate for some diffs, either the real ones or just those perceived by the buyer making E30 look more attractive other things equal.

OK great: the hard part seems to be behind by now (thanks to all your help!), just need to decide regarding the "matching" headphones now.
 

maarvold

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A search for the information I am about to post lead me to this thread so it seems like as good a place as any.

Caveat: Doing this will void the warrantee and should only be performed if you have some skill with component disassembly/reassembly.

If you want to open your D90--I wanted to open one of mine to see if it had the AKM chip--here's how to do it:
• On the rear panel, remove the 2 hex screws that are at the outside ends of the panel; these screws are the longest ones in the disassembly process
• On the bottom, near the front there are 6 hex screws. The 4 screws (2 pairs) nearest to the sides of the unit attach to reinforced L brackets that hold the front panel in place. Take note: there is a single, fairly short ribbon connector that connects the front panel's circuit board to the main circuit board. Remove these 4 screws and slowly/carefully slide the front panel out. The ribbon connector can be disconnected by popping up the tan-colored insert--which keeps the ribbon in place by pressure--in the white connector shell roughly 1/8", allowing the cable to slide out of the connector.
• Remove the remaining 2 screws and, with the unit still upside down, slide the main board out by somewhat gently pulling on the RCA and/or bluetooth antenna socket.
 

UCrazyKid

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A search for the information I am about to post lead me to this thread so it seems like as good a place as any.

Caveat: Doing this will void the warrantee and should only be performed if you have some skill with component disassembly/reassembly.

If you want to open your D90--I wanted to open one of mine to see if it had the AKM chip--here's how to do it:
• On the rear panel, remove the 2 hex screws that are at the outside ends of the panel; these screws are the longest ones in the disassembly process
• On the bottom, near the front there are 6 hex screws. The 4 screws (2 pairs) nearest to the sides of the unit attach to reinforced L brackets that hold the front panel in place. Take note: there is a single, fairly short ribbon connector that connects the front panel's circuit board to the main circuit board. Remove these 4 screws and slowly/carefully slide the front panel out. The ribbon connector can be disconnected by popping up the tan-colored insert--which keeps the ribbon in place by pressure--in the white connector shell roughly 1/8", allowing the cable to slide out of the connector.
• Remove the remaining 2 screws and, with the unit still upside down, slide the main board out by somewhat gently pulling on the RCA and/or bluetooth antenna socket.
And what did you find? You know the name stamped on the outside of the case will let you know what chip is inside, right?
Topping D90 and the D90 MQA use the AKM 4499eq
The Topping D90 SE uses the ESS 9039pro
 

maarvold

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It was the AKM. I know the new version uses a different chip. But I also know due to--just one example--following the minutiae of specs in vintage Fender electric guitars and amps, that there is plenty of crazy stuff going on regarding what is supposed to be and what actually is. And when the AKM factory burned, I'd bet Topping had a whole bunch of unfulfilled orders. I'm getting my 4th one (used, from Australia) on Monday (non-SE), but I'm going to open that one as well, just to make sure all 4 are the same.
 
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ichonderoga

ichonderoga

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It was the AKM. I know the new version uses a different chip. But I also know due to--just one example--following the minutiae of specs in vintage Fender electric guitars and amps, that there is plenty of crazy stuff going on regarding what is supposed to be and what actually is. And when the AKM factory burned, I'd bet Topping had a whole bunch of unfulfilled orders. I'm getting my 4th one (used, from Australia) on Monday (non-SE), but I'm going to open that one as well, just to make sure all 4 are the same.
Didn’t as much mistrust its contents was just curious about it hence the try to disassemble. Thanks for the info, and do let us know if all four are created equal.

4! you’re crazy hah
 

yuriy.ward

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It was the AKM. I know the new version uses a different chip. But I also know due to--just one example--following the minutiae of specs in vintage Fender electric guitars and amps, that there is plenty of crazy stuff going on regarding what is supposed to be and what actually is. And when the AKM factory burned, I'd bet Topping had a whole bunch of unfulfilled orders. I'm getting my 4th one (used, from Australia) on Monday (non-SE), but I'm going to open that one as well, just to make sure all 4 are the same.
If you want to buy a 5th I have for sale MQA version with AKM chip if you need :)
 
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