Alsozone /3e Audio GaN Monoblocks | New Comer

[Michael Kohler]

Bruno clearly has the sales man hat on in that video. I guess that is why he is stuttering so bad. It all is made up. No one can hear those differences in a blind test.

Since most amplifiers have linear frequency response and distortion and noise below human limits, they will sound the same. If you look at Dirac, Audyssey or tone controls, what do they have in common? They all change the frequency response. If there is no difference in the frequency response, they have to sound the same.

And once again, you're wrong. Bruno doesn't stutter because he's 'playing the salesman,' as you say. He always stutters.
That alone is presumptuous of you, especially with such a bright mind like Bruno Putzeyes'. You should stop that. It's unfair and mean.

 

[daniboun]

Why does fairness matter? They are amps, not people.

In any case – pair any Purify with a half-decent DAC – yes, with digital volume control – and it will perform better than the digital amps that have been tested here to date.

That’s for sure. Even if you can count the FDAs tested by Amir on the fingers of one hand... I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the SMSL VMV A2 is the best-measuring FDA on ASR, and it doesn't impress...

SMSL VMV A2 Review (Stereo Amplifier & DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL VMV A2 stereo "desktop" DAC and amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $999. VMV is the higher-end brand in SMSL lineup. The look and feel of the A2 is similar to the latest line from SMSL: It looks nicer though in...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Michael Kohler]

If you want to understand the Audibility thresholds check this :

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks, I just read it. Someone really put a lot of effort into that.
I did ask 'torgeirs' in this thread how he comes to the conclusion that 120 dB SINAD is the goal in audio development. After reading this article, I can see why. But I want to point out: it's not the same if someone lives in the countryside, far from noise, and listens to music in the evening or at night, compared to a city person, whose apartment gets never really quiet.

 

[Svend P]

And once again, you're wrong. Bruno doesn't stutter because he's 'playing the salesman,' as you say. He always stutters.
That alone is presumptuous of you, especially with such a bright mind like Bruno Putzeyes'. You should stop that. It's unfair and mean.

The video is discussed here.

Bruno Putzeys reaches out to the subjectivists

I just read an interesting interview from 2014 with Bruno Putzeys, the man behind the hypex amps and the Kii Three, of course. part 1...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Please also read the review of the Crown XLS 2502. It is one of the worst measuring amplifiers tested here, that still got an recommended rating. Over a certain threshold, measurements doesn't matter. See if you can guess how it sounds like from reading the review

Crown XLS2502 Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS2502 DriveCore (switching) 2-channel amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. The XLS 2502 cost US $645 including free shipping from Amazon. It has DSP functionality which I did not test. And is specified to drive 2 ohm load...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[daniboun]

Thanks, I just read it. Someone really put a lot of effort into that.
I did ask 'torgeirs' in this thread how he comes to the conclusion that 120 dB SINAD is the goal in audio development. After reading this article, I can see why. But I want to point out: it's not the same if someone lives in the countryside, far from noise, and listens to music in the evening or at night, compared to a city person, whose apartment gets never really quiet.

Double glazing works wonders, whether in the city or the countryside. ))))))

 

[Michael Kohler]

Why does fairness matter? They are amps, not people.

In any case – pair any Purify with a half-decent DAC – yes, with digital volume control – and it will perform better than the digital amps that have been tested here to date.

I can easily imagine that you're right. Still, I ask: was this ever done here? Or somewhere else?
Is there any evidence for it? I ask for the following reason, take a look in here, side2, the gray boxes on the right:

https://nad.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DirectDigital_WhitePaper.pdf

 

[Michael Kohler]

Double glazing works wonders, whether in the city or the countryside. ))))))

Unfortunately not. I have double glazing in the living room, but I actually live in the town center. It's only quiet at my place, at the earliest, around 11:00 PM. If I do a room measurement with Dirac and I want it to be really good, I can't even think about doing it before 11:00 PM.

 

[Ropeburn]

I still have something I need to get off my Chest:
A few hours ago, something became clear to me. It was after I had written that FullDigitalAmps don't measure quite as well as analog Class D amplifiers, like the Purifis, for example. Roland68 then asked me what I meant by that. I answered him that the FullDigitalAmps here on ASR don't score as well as the Purifi amps, just as an example. And suddenly I realized the injustice: FullDigitalAmplifiers don't even have to measure as well as, let's say, Purifis. That's because FullDigitalAmps usually always have digital inputs and a volume control, plus, of course, the power amplifier. If you compare that with the measurements of a pure power amp, it's unfair. The correct comparison, of course, has to be FDA versus, say, a Purifi power amp INCLUDING a DAC. And it "must" be a DAC with volume control.

As soon as the DAC used is better, read: more transparent than the amp itself, then it doesn't matter. The amp is the bottleneck.

Since that is the case with the vast majority of contemporary DACs and has been for decades now, that's a non issue. The comparison is valid and far from unfair in any way.

 

[Michael Kohler]

As soon as the DAC used is better, read: more transparent than the amp itself, then it doesn't matter. The amp is the bottleneck.

Since that is the case with the vast majority of contemporary DACs and has been for decades now, that's a non issue. The comparison is valid and far from unfair in any way.

Okay. Are you sure that the noise from the devices, like the amp plus DAC, doesn't add up? The truth is, I don't know, but I read the following, though I didn't really understand it. NAD claims in this white paper that their M32 full digital amp achieves better values than very good analog systems. Page 2. I would be happy if someone could explain it in a way that not just I understand.

https://nad.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DirectDigital_WhitePaper.pdf

 

[Roland68]

I can easily imagine that you're right. Still, I ask: was this ever done here? Or somewhere else?
Is there any evidence for it? I ask for the following reason, take a look in here, side2, the gray boxes on the right:

https://nad.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DirectDigital_WhitePaper.pdf

Why don't we just wait for the DAC announced by @Lars Risbo and then run a comparison or blind test—Purifi DAC/AMP versus A30a/VMV A2?
It doesn't get any fairer than that.

 

[Ropeburn]

Okay. Are you sure that the noise from the devices, like the amp plus DAC, doesn't add up? The truth is, I don't know, but I read the following, though I didn't really understand it. NAD claims in this white paper that their M32 full digital amp achieves better values than very good analog systems. Page 2. I would be happy if someone could explain it in a way that not just I understand.

https://nad.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DirectDigital_WhitePaper.pdf

Of course the noise adds up. And how much is that DAC noise compared to the amp's? Orders of magnitude lower. Doesn't matter.

 

[Michael Kohler]

Why don't we just wait for the DAC announced by @Lars Risbo and then run a comparison or blind test—Purifi DAC/AMP versus A30a/VMV A2?
It doesn't get any fairer than that.

Now I have to grin. I think the idea is great, but couldn't they be just a tiny bit WEAKER opponents? I think the Sabaj a30a is great and I believe you do too, but when it comes to a Purifi comparison, life gets serious, so to speak: The Sabaj a30a used to cost around 600 euros new, with Purifi the stereo power amplifier alone costs more than double. Plus the DAC... But that's no excuse: I'm in. Definitely.

 

[Michael Kohler]

Of course the noise adds up. And how much is that DAC noise compared to the amp's? Orders of magnitude lower. Doesn't matter.

Is it okay if I ask for specific numbers? The SMSL VMV A2 got 96.8 dB at 5 watts output, back in 2022 here at ASR. The amp cost around 1000 euros, but then there was also the Sabaj A30A, which was more or less identical and cost about 600 euros. So, is it okay if you look for a combination of a DAC with volume control plus a stereo power amp, maybe with good output, because both the SMSL and the Sabaj also have 200 watts power, and everything together for around 600 euros? Would that be a fair comparison? I'm actually curious about how much better the combo is compared to the FDA. I don't even know how to properly calculate the addition of noise. So I have to rely on you.

 

[john61ct]

how to properly calculate the addition of noise

Imagine making a cocktail based on 4oz of Slivovitz. At the end you shake in a few drops of Unterberg - how much does it change the ABV?

 

[Ropeburn]

Is it okay if I ask for specific numbers? The SMSL VMV A2 got 96.8 dB at 5 watts output, back in 2022 here at ASR. The amp cost around 1000 euros, but then there was also the Sabaj A30A, which was more or less identical and cost about 600 euros. So, is it okay if you look for a combination of a DAC with volume control plus a stereo power amp, maybe with good output, because both the SMSL and the Sabaj also have 200 watts power, and everything together for around 600 euros? Would that be a fair comparison? I'm actually curious about how much better the combo is compared to the FDA. I don't even know how to properly calculate the addition of noise. So I have to rely on you.

Your average affordable DAC these days has less than -120dB noise. Hell, many models around 200 moneys or so reach -140dB, so low it becomes difficult to measure at all. That's so low compared to the amp, you can almost treat it as nonexistent for comparison purposes. In practice it really is nonexistent, not even a rounding error.

 

[daniboun]

Is it okay if I ask for specific numbers? The SMSL VMV A2 got 96.8 dB at 5 watts output, back in 2022 here at ASR. The amp cost around 1000 euros, but then there was also the Sabaj A30A, which was more or less identical and cost about 600 euros. So, is it okay if you look for a combination of a DAC with volume control plus a stereo power amp, maybe with good output, because both the SMSL and the Sabaj also have 200 watts power, and everything together for around 600 euros? Would that be a fair comparison? I'm actually curious about how much better the combo is compared to the FDA. I don't even know how to properly calculate the addition of noise. So I have to rely on you.

Honestly, I bought my WiiM Amp Ultra for €400. When you really think about it, it’s the best "Swiss Army knife" out there right now (a DAC/amp/room correction/streamer combo...).

If I’m looking forward to anything in 2026 or 2027, it’s a serious competitor to this amp—rather than just more series of amps that offer nothing revolutionary and simply clutter the market..

 

[Michael Kohler]

Your average affordable DAC these days has less than -120dB noise. Hell, many models around 200 moneys or so reach -140dB, so low it becomes difficult to measure at all. That's so low compared to the amp, you can almost treat it as nonexistent for comparison purposes. In practice it really is nonexistent, not even a rounding error.

Okay, I understand. The influence of the DAC is so small that you can neglect it or almost completely forget about it. I believe you guys. But if that's true, how does NAD come up with their values in the whitepaper? Is it possible that the NAD M32 Full Digital Amp measures so much better than all the Full Digital Amps tested on ASR? I can't believe that, even though there haven't been that many FDAs tested here yet.

 

[john61ct]

Consider the (likely) possibility that Full Digital Amps are inherently flawed from a measurements POV.

Maybe some very expensive ones can come close to the performance of middle of the pack conventional analog models costing 90% less.

Now, I love love love 3e's expertise and attention to detail, so perhaps we will see a breakthrough here, lots more power possible than TPA3255 at a nice low price, and "good enough" fidelity.

I hope @amirm gets to test one before Christmas, might even sponsor it myself if 3e does not step up

 

[daniboun]

Okay, I understand. The influence of the DAC is so small that you can neglect it or almost completely forget about it. I believe you guys. But if that's true, how does NAD come up with their values in the whitepaper? Is it possible that the NAD M32 Full Digital Amp measures so much better than all the Full Digital Amps tested on ASR? I can't believe that, even though there haven't been that many FDAs tested here yet.

The M32 is a sort of hybrid "Power DAC" with a NAD twist, utilizing a Zetex/CSR DirectDigital circuit (acquired by Qualcomm). The amplification stage is a blend of Hypex and DDFA technologies.
It just so happens that I kept the AP measurements for the NAD M32 on my phone...
What do you get for $ 5000 :

 

[Michael Kohler]

Honestly, I bought my WiiM Amp Ultra for €400. When you really think about it, it’s the best "Swiss Army knife" out there right now (a DAC/amp/room correction/streamer combo...).

If I’m looking forward to anything in 2026 or 2027, it’s a serious competitor to this amp—rather than just more series of amps that offer nothing revolutionary and simply clutter the market..

Yeah really, the Wiim Ultra is, in terms of specs versus its price and features, a great device. About 3 dB better in measurements than the best-tested full digital amp here on ASR, the SMSL VMV A2. You paid 400 for it, that’s fair; I paid 420 including shipping for my Sabaj a30a. The Wiim has a measured output of just under 170 watts, the Sabaj about 40 watts more. So pretty comparable, more or less. But the Wiim came out much later, at the end of 2025, so it’s a pretty new device; the Sabaj was already out in 2022. I’m pointing this out because new devices are getting better AND cheaper over time.