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Allo Revolution Dac
- Thread starter Gjaz
- Start date
Looks interesting.
SINAD (and pure THD) are slightly better than the Topping E30, but is >$100 and only USB input.
SINAD (and pure THD) are slightly better than the Topping E30, but is >$100 and only USB input.
- Thread Starter
- #3
Thanks! I have the USBridge and Shanti, with a D50s. I was using Project Pre Box S2 and when I switched to the D50s from a subjective point of view the imaging and clarity improved, but I find the D50 fatiguing after a listening for a while. I may try the Revolution....
Fortunately, Allo is one of the few companies that publishes AP tests for their products. Unfortunately, the tests they have for the Shanti are with a Schiit Modi 2, which is not a very good USB DAC; the Modi 2 was tested before Amir got the new AP analyzer, so it's hard to compare and know whether the Shanti is beneficial or not. I'm not sure if the Shanti is much more than an expensive way to get 5V power given that the Box S2 and D50s both appear to test well (with the D50s being objectively better in some ways, particularly IMD) with 'normal' power delivery. (Both have some settings like filter options which may be muddying the issue too.)
As for the Revolution DAC, based on Allo's measurements it tests very well. Allo is a weird company though, because they straddle the line between objective performance and audiophile mythology. (The text for the Shanti being an example - 'linear power supplies are better' - well, it depends on whether the device they're powering is designed competently with good power filtering. The stuff about tweaking via harmonics in the Revolution DAC is another example.) Also based on their measurements, even the various settings for harmonics, etc should all be below audible levels; ex: about -121dB for the highest 2nd harmonic setting, versus -138dB with the lowest (best) 2nd harmonic setting. This difference could affect SINAD a bit since SINAD is a summary of noise and distortion, but either should be inaudible. I seriously doubt it will change your 'fatigue' issue.
The beauty of getting objectively neutral measuring electronics is that you can be quite certain that you're hearing just your headphones (or speakers+room), with no affect from non-neutral electronics. No silliness about component matching, or 'synergy' etc etc. The point is this: you may be hearing your headphone's "real performance" which you find fatiguing over time. I would consider trying different headphones to find your preferred sound signature before changing from the D50s and spending $260 on the Revolution DAC.
As for the Revolution DAC, based on Allo's measurements it tests very well. Allo is a weird company though, because they straddle the line between objective performance and audiophile mythology. (The text for the Shanti being an example - 'linear power supplies are better' - well, it depends on whether the device they're powering is designed competently with good power filtering. The stuff about tweaking via harmonics in the Revolution DAC is another example.) Also based on their measurements, even the various settings for harmonics, etc should all be below audible levels; ex: about -121dB for the highest 2nd harmonic setting, versus -138dB with the lowest (best) 2nd harmonic setting. This difference could affect SINAD a bit since SINAD is a summary of noise and distortion, but either should be inaudible. I seriously doubt it will change your 'fatigue' issue.
The beauty of getting objectively neutral measuring electronics is that you can be quite certain that you're hearing just your headphones (or speakers+room), with no affect from non-neutral electronics. No silliness about component matching, or 'synergy' etc etc. The point is this: you may be hearing your headphone's "real performance" which you find fatiguing over time. I would consider trying different headphones to find your preferred sound signature before changing from the D50s and spending $260 on the Revolution DAC.
https://l7audiolab.com/f/measurement-of-topping-d10s-dac feature set wise this is more comparable
Interesting sales pitch explicitly directed to both objectivist and subjectivist customers.
https://www.allo.com/sparky/revolution-dac.html
https://www.allo.com/sparky/revolution-dac.html
D10s? When is that gonna be available?
Sonner than L30. I won't derail this thread further. As I was being accused many times.
- Thread Starter
- #9
I’m not grooving on the D50s in my room. The Project sounded better to me, but was defective an I returned it. I pulled the trigger on the Revolution. I’m going to try the D50s with my headphone set up....
Ok, up to you of course. I won't pre-bias you with more of my thoughts...but replace headphones with speakers in my final sentence if that was where you didn't like it.
- Thread Starter
- #11
Just got it, set it up. There was an issue right off that bat, a “pop” when I switched songs. Found a POPMUTE setting in the menu, 0-5 preset to 3. Tried 0, still occasionally popped, tried 1, no more pops. Problem solved, I posted on their forum asking for a solution before figuring it out, it will be interesting to se what their response is.Ok, up to you of course. I won't pre-bias you with more of my thoughts...but replace headphones with speakers in my final sentence if that was where you didn't like it.
Beyond that, it sounds really good. I’m going to live with it for a while and see how I like it.
I did order another set of speakers, JBL Studio 530. I’ve been wanting to try them, and they are 50% off. They should be arriving at my door momentarily.
Hello
I am the designer of Revolution Dac. First , thx you Gjaz for the kind words
Second THD+N of Rev is at a minimum at -116.5 THD+N . THD is at -126 , I think thats quite different than D10s . Not only THD+N but also jitter and THD+N vs frequency at 90Khz bandwidth is very flat . We think that Rev Dac is one of the best (if not the best) in the world in unbalanced output in measurements based on AP data
Amir has a unit and depending on his load he will measure and post for everyone to see.
Now regarding "audiophile mythology" Rev was based on long standing myths . Plenty of capacitance of power rails , low noise clocks , low noise tested on every rail...and we achieved better THD than anyone else on ess9038q2m .
How is it possible that those myths actually show an improvement on IMD and THD ?
Further there seems to be belief that HF noise is not audible . I design with HF removed from output because I am convinced thats the main cause of "fatiguing sound " or " bright sound" of ess dac ic. How is that possible ? No idea .
I am the designer of Revolution Dac. First , thx you Gjaz for the kind words
Second THD+N of Rev is at a minimum at -116.5 THD+N . THD is at -126 , I think thats quite different than D10s . Not only THD+N but also jitter and THD+N vs frequency at 90Khz bandwidth is very flat . We think that Rev Dac is one of the best (if not the best) in the world in unbalanced output in measurements based on AP data
Amir has a unit and depending on his load he will measure and post for everyone to see.
Now regarding "audiophile mythology" Rev was based on long standing myths . Plenty of capacitance of power rails , low noise clocks , low noise tested on every rail...and we achieved better THD than anyone else on ess9038q2m .
How is it possible that those myths actually show an improvement on IMD and THD ?
Further there seems to be belief that HF noise is not audible . I design with HF removed from output because I am convinced thats the main cause of "fatiguing sound " or " bright sound" of ess dac ic. How is that possible ? No idea .
HionHiFi
Active Member
These THD & THD+N are below human audibility. johan, I am genuinely interested to know how the they can possibly have an impact on subjective SQ? Humans have a finite hearing range with some variation within the range, ie. greater sensitivity from 2-5kHz (ISO 226:2003), but still finite. For example, we cannot hear as high as a dog, nor can we see into the infrared. How then would you explain a person claiming to hear or see up into those ranges?
The high quality of the parts contribute to overall better measurements. This makes for a "cleaner" signal path. That has nothing to do with consumer audio mythology. If anything it seems to validate the Objectivists position, i.e. better engineered parts measure better. Can you share you opinion on this?
Hemi-Demon
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
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- 514
May I ask where I can download the theyscon drivers? Thanks
Hemi-Demon
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
- Messages
- 438
- Likes
- 514
I want to order one of these, since I have never tried a Allo product; from the only place in the US I can find.
https://chicagodist.com/collections/allo
I contacted the company, but they stated they could not confirm they had the DSD version. Do you happen to know if I can order the DSD version in the US, or only through the Allo site, from overseas. I really don't want to wait for Fedex shipping from overseas with all the pandemic shipping slow downs.
Also do you have a more update driver, based on Theysecon 4.8.6 like the Topping units? Sorry for all the questions, but the other forums, linked on the allo site, don't really offer any support help.
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