All things about Cymax Power Amplifier

[Billy Budapest]

Hi everyone! I just got a pair of Cymax 1ET9040BA Pro monoblocks. Build quality is excellent and they run very cool but quite heavy. Paired with the Micro Audio SMPS, Weiss OP2-BP and the buffer board LPS, they sound amazing and incredibly smooth. Those interested can check out the photos I took.

Why waste money on boutique Weiss opamps and a linear power supply for the buffer board? The only benefit is that your wallet will be lighter. Come to think of it, that’s not a benefit.

 

[Billy Budapest]

I've heard clear, repeatable differences between DACs that measure similarly, and between digital attenuation and a proper analog preamp in front of Purifi modules specifically. Whether that's "psychoacoustics" or not, it's consistent across listening sessions and across different listeners in my circle.

Confirmation bias is a real phenomenon and it strongly affects perceptions.

 

[HarryC]

Why waste money on boutique Weiss opamps and a linear power supply for the buffer board? The only benefit is that your wallet will be lighter. Come to think of it, that’s not a benefit.

Whether Weiss is worth the price is a matter of personal opinion. I personally own quite a few other op-amps, and although Weiss is much more expensive, I personally feel it's worth the money. As for the LPS customized for the buffer-boards, it comes as standard and doesn't require additional cost. I found its sound to be smoother than my previous 9040 amplifier, which was powered only by Hypex's SMPS. So, I don't feel my wallet has gotten lighter at all.

 

[Svend P]

Whether Weiss is worth the price is a matter of personal opinion. I personally own quite a few other op-amps, and although Weiss is much more expensive, I personally feel it's worth the money. As for the LPS customized for the buffer-boards, it comes as standard and doesn't require additional cost. I found its sound to be smoother than my previous 9040 amplifier, which was powered only by Hypex's SMPS. So, I feel my wallet hasn't gotten lighter; in fact, it's gotten fuller.

Does Op-amp Rolling Work?

When I post my last video on review of Douk A5 amplifier, I mentioned that rolling (changing) op-amp ICs in there is fruitless. I got have a dozen comments under that video in youtube asking why so I thought I experiment again with the A5. Note that I have done the same testing with both DACs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[RandomEar]

Whether Weiss is worth the price is a matter of personal opinion. I personally own quite a few other op-amps, and although Weiss is much more expensive, I personally feel it's worth the money.

If there is no audible difference (there isn't) and the chip itself is invisible inside the case, how could it be worth any additional expense? Outside of a couple of edge cases where the op amp is incompatible with the circuit causing extreme distortion or oscillations, op amps do not audibly alter the sound of an amp [1, 2, 3]. You can build transparent amplifiers using dirt cheap NE5532s - outside of a very narrow band of "you're getting nothing but fake chips for this kind of money", the price of op amps does not relate to their sound quality.

As for the LPS customized for the buffer-boards, it comes as standard and doesn't require additional cost. I found its sound to be smoother than my previous 9040 amplifier, which was powered only by Hypex's SMPS. So, I don't feel my wallet has gotten lighter at all.

Power supplies or amplifier classes do not have any "sound". You do not listen to your PSU, you listen to rectified, filtered DC which is being modulated. Unless you do proper, controlled testing (level-matched, blind), all you report on is your own cognitive bias. Essentially, our brain tells us that it heard something, but it's simply making it up.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Whether Weiss is worth the price is a matter of personal opinion. I personally own quite a few other op-amps, and although Weiss is much more expensive, I personally feel it's worth the money. As for the LPS customized for the buffer-boards, it comes as standard and doesn't require additional cost. I found its sound to be smoother than my previous 9040 amplifier, which was powered only by Hypex's SMPS. So, I don't feel my wallet has gotten lighter at all.

Understood. Unsure what benefit an LPS and Weiss opamps could possibly provide from a sonic perspective, even disregarding their additional cost.

 

[Billy Budapest]

If there is no audible difference (there isn't) and the chip itself is invisible inside the case, how could it be worth any additional expense? Outside of a couple of edge cases where the op amp is incompatible with the circuit causing extreme distortion or oscillations, op amps do not audibly alter the sound of an amp [1, 2, 3]. You can build transparent amplifiers using dirt cheap NE5532s - outside of a very narrow band of "you're getting nothing but fake chips for this kind of money", the price of op amps does not relate to their sound quality.


Power supplies or amplifier classes do not have any "sound". You do not listen to your PSU, you listen to rectified, filtered DC which is being modulated. Unless you do proper, controlled testing (level-matched, blind), all you report on is your own cognitive bias. Essentially, our brain tells us that it heard something, but it's simply making it up.

This. Confirmation bias is real. I just try not to fall victim to it.

 

[HarryC]

If there is no audible difference (there isn't) and the chip itself is invisible inside the case, how could it be worth any additional expense? Outside of a couple of edge cases where the op amp is incompatible with the circuit causing extreme distortion or oscillations, op amps do not audibly alter the sound of an amp [1, 2, 3]. You can build transparent amplifiers using dirt cheap NE5532s - outside of a very narrow band of "you're getting nothing but fake chips for this kind of money", the price of op amps does not relate to their sound quality.

I disagree with your statement that "there is no audible difference". In fact, different transistors and components will alter the sonic characteristics of any music device, let alone op-amps. However, I have no intention of starting a debate about which op-amps are worth the money and which aren't. In my opinion, such a debate is meaningless. Everyone has the right to buy whatever they like with their hard-earned money. If someone thinks it's a waste of money, that's fine too! This goes beyond music discussion; it's about personal choice. Please respect that!

Power supplies or amplifier classes do not have any "sound". You do not listen to your PSU, you listen to rectified, filtered DC which is being modulated. Unless you do proper, controlled testing (level-matched, blind), all you report on is your own cognitive bias. Essentially, our brain tells us that it heard something, but it's simply making it up.

"Power supplies or amplifier classes do not have any "sound": Thank you for correcting my cognitive bias in A/B sound comparison.This is definitely a new perspective on my musical knowledge.

 

[RandomEar]

I disagree with your statement that "there is no audible difference". In fact, different transistors and components will alter the sonic characteristics of any music device, let alone op-amps.

This is simply wrong and any controlled blind tests have shown it again and again.

However, I have no intention of starting a debate about which op-amps are worth the money and which aren't. In my opinion, such a debate is meaningless. Everyone has the right to buy whatever they like with their hard-earned money. If someone thinks it's a waste of money, that's fine too! This goes beyond music discussion; it's about personal choice. Please respect that!

I agree that you can buy with your money whatever you like. However, coming to a science-minded forum and stating things which are easily disproven will result in some push-back.

"Power supplies or amplifier classes do not have any "sound": Thank you for correcting my cognitive bias in A/B sound comparison.This is definitely a new perspective on my musical knowledge.

Your sarcasm will not alter reality or advance this discussion in any way.

 

[HarryC]

S

This is simply wrong and any controlled blind tests have shown it again and again.

Sorry I still stand by my statement: "different transistors and components will alter the sonic characteristics of any music device, let alone op-amps."

I agree that you can buy with your money whatever you like. However, coming to a science-minded forum and stating things which are easily disproven will result in some push-back.

Are you saying the ASR platform has an internal consensus against members buying expensive opamps? I always welcome any scientifically minded discussions, but I object to using those discussions to criticize other members' purchasing choices.

Your sarcasm will not alter reality or advance this discussion in any way.

Good, end of discussion!

 

[RandomEar]

Sorry I still stand by my statement: "different transistors and components will alter the sonic characteristics of any music device, let alone op-amps."

I provided ample evidence to the contrary and I'm happy to provide more [4, 5, 6, 7]. Feel free to provide any evidence at all supporting your position.

Are you saying the ASR platform has an internal consensus against members buying expensive opamps? I always welcome any scientifically minded discussions, but I object to using those discussions to criticize other members' purchasing choices.

You misunderstood or you're twisting my words: I said everybody is free to spend their money how they like. But coming here and making incorrect statements like "red aspirin pills are more effective against pain than blue aspirin pills of the same potency" will result in push back, unless you can provide objective evidence supporting that statement.

Good, end of discussion!

Luckily not your decision!

 

[Mnyb]

Sorry I still stand by my statement: "different transistors and components will alter the sonic characteristics of any music device, let alone op-amps."

explain how ?

If the resulting amplifier has levels of noise and distorsion well below what's audible for humans ?

The characteristics of the distorsion only matters if its on the verge of being clearly audible , but those amps are broken by design anyway ?

The amp in this tread is certainly fine in this regard , seems to fulfil the needs for a powerful and fully transparent amplifier , with some design flare for their costummers.
But i do think offering meaningless options such as different buffer stages is a money grab , just do one good design imo .

 

[HarryC]

I provided ample evidence to the contrary and I'm happy to provide more [4, 5, 6, 7]. Feel free to provide any evidence at all supporting your position.

If you are so convinced of all these evidences, why don't you speak up for the vast majority of users and sue all these suppliers for false claims?

You misunderstood or you're twisting my words: I said everybody is free to spend their money how they like. But coming here and making incorrect statements like "red aspirin pills are more effective against pain than blue aspirin pills of the same potency" will result in push back, unless you can provide objective evidence supporting that statement.

Please forgive my bluntness, but now you're accusing me of twisting your words? Prior to your first replied and your grand definition of "sound", the following was my message related to opamps: "Whether Weiss is worth the price is a matter of personal opinion. I personally own quite a few other op-amps, and although Weiss is much more expensive, I personally feel it's worth the money...." So, what exactly were the incorrect statements I made that offended you so much?

Luckily not your decision!

Now you're speaking on my behalf?

 

[Svend P]

So, what exactly were the incorrect statements I made that offended you so much?

Something that gives zero change to the sound should cost zero money

 

[RandomEar]

If you are so convinced of all these evidences, why don't you speak up for the vast majority of users and sue all these suppliers for false claims?

You're deflecting from the topic being discussed. You may provide evidence or choose not to. I certainly will not waste my own money on suing random corporations I did not do business with. What a weird suggestion.

Please forgive my bluntness, but now you're accusing me of twisting your words? Prior to your first replied and your grand definition of "sound", the following was my message related to opamps: "Whether Weiss is worth the price is a matter of personal opinion. I personally own quite a few other op-amps, and although Weiss is much more expensive, I personally feel it's worth the money...." So, what exactly were the incorrect statements I made that offended you so much?

I said "misunderstood or twisting my words". You could have simply gone with "misunderstood". It's also pretty silly we have to quote each other at this point, but here we go. You also stated

I found its sound to be smoother than my previous 9040 amplifier, which was powered only by Hypex's SMPS

and in another post

I disagree with your statement that "there is no audible difference". In fact, different transistors and components will alter the sonic characteristics of any music device, let alone op-amps.

So clearly, you stand by the idea that components will audibly change the sound of a device, even if measurements or listening tests show zero evidence of this. In your initial post, you may not have explicitly written that the specific Weiss op amp may do this, but your wording suggested it. You also came back to my question of "If there is no audible difference (there isn't) and the chip itself is invisible inside the case, how could it be worth any additional expense?" with the explicit statement that indeed op amps "will alter the sonic characteristics".

Now you're speaking on my behalf?

No, but you did. What is it with the deflection again? You tried to speak for both of us that it's the "end of [the] discussion". However, neither you nor I decide whether this thread continues. At best, a moderator may lock it or the server may crash.

 

[Sam09876]

You're deflecting from the topic being discussed. You may provide evidence or choose not to. I certainly will not waste my own money on suing random corporations I did not do business with. What a weird suggestion.


I said "misunderstood or twisting my words". You could have simply gone with "misunderstood". It's also pretty silly we have to quote each other at this point, but here we go. You also stated

and in another post

So clearly, you stand by the idea that components will audibly change the sound of a device, even if measurements or listening tests show zero evidence of this. In your initial post, you may not have explicitly written that the specific Weiss op amp may do this, but your wording suggested it. You also came back to my question of "If there is no audible difference (there isn't) and the chip itself is invisible inside the case, how could it be worth any additional expense?" with the explicit statement that indeed op amps "will alter the sonic characteristics".


No, but you did. What is it with the deflection again? You tried to speak for both of us that it's the "end of [the] discussion". However, neither you nor I decide whether this thread continues. At best, a moderator may lock it or the server may crash.

 

[Uncola]

guys just chill out, we can be objectivist oriented without demanding all amps be built in cardboard pizza boxes to value-max because cases don't affect performance

 

[HarryC]

You're deflecting from the topic being discussed. You may provide evidence or choose not to. I certainly will not waste my own money on suing random corporations I did not do business with. What a weird suggestion.

From the very beginning, I was only referring to my own A/B comparison and my personal choice; why should I be the one to contradict myself with evidence? What a weird suggestion.

I said "misunderstood or twisting my words". You could have simply gone with "misunderstood". It's also pretty silly we have to quote each other at this point, but here we go. You also stated

As someone with a scientific mind, do you think it's possible our discussions were caused by a misunderstanding? Are you now saying that I don't even have the right to choose how to reply?

I found its sound to be smoother than my previous 9040 amplifier, which was powered only by Hypex's SMPS

Can't find any quotes? Sorry I don't want to start another debate between Hypex and Micro Audio.

and in another post

So clearly, you stand by the idea that components will audibly change the sound of a device, even if measurements or listening tests show zero evidence of this. In your initial post, you may not have explicitly written that the specific Weiss op amp may do this, but your wording suggested it. You also came back to my question of "If there is no audible difference (there isn't) and the chip itself is invisible inside the case, how could it be worth any additional expense?" with the explicit statement that indeed op amps "will alter the sonic characteristics".

Yes, I still stand by my statements, and I will continue to keep all my opamps, including Weiss, SS2590, SS3602, 994Enh, Muses 02, OPA1612 and among others. Based on many years of my daily listening experiences, their sound characteristics are not the same.

No, but you did. What is it with the deflection again? You tried to speak for both of us that it's the "end of [the] discussion". However, neither you nor I decide whether this thread continues. At best, a moderator may lock it or the server may crash.

On my behalf, I now declare the end of discussion and will not respond further. Of course you are entitled to carry on. After all, this is a free world, right?

 

[Pausi]

As the thread starter I urge us all to return to discussing Cymax amplifiers.

 

[Uncola]

I've been using my cymax 6525 on medium(19db) gain setting with my ascilab c6b and it's been a really great pairing for my near field setup.. no heat produced at all by the amp