All amplifiers do not sound the same

[kemmler3D]

Amps should sound the same if you are not running out of power, but I don't know if people appreciate how quickly you can run out of power.

If you are listening at 15 feet / 5m and you want unclipped 110dB peaks from a typical speaker, you need a pretty insane amp, turns out.

 

[solderdude]

There are so many details that could go wrong in an amplifier design:

sibilance around 6khz,

Ermm no... There isn't a single amp on this planet that peaks or does not amplify right at 6kHz.

difficulty to handle the speaker load...

That ... sure. You simply cannot use just any amp for any speaker and expect all loads to be driver well by all amps.

For sure the classic measurements tools are not able to catch all the defaults.

What are classic measurement tools ?

What are 'defaults' that have to be catched ?

 

[voodooless]

If you are listening at 15 feet / 5m and you want unclipped 110dB peaks from a typical speaker, you need a pretty insane amp, turns out.

You’ll also need pretty insane speakers… certainly not some 6.5” bookshelves.

 

[Koeitje]

I have a few TPA3255 based amps which sound really nice but are still a step down from a nCore and PuriFi. Which to me sound fully alike. Or a good old Restek amp. Many examples

If you exceed certain limits like SPL or have Class D amplifiers that have a frequency response that varies with load you are going to hear differences. Amplifiers sound the same when you operate them within their design limits (so no clipping), have a flat frequency response (less then 0.5dB variance in your hearing range) and low enough noise (that has helped me differentiate between 2 DACS with a 100% success rate in an ABX test).

 

[WillBrink]

Amps should sound the same if you are not running out of power, but I don't know if people appreciate how quickly you can run out of power.

If you are listening at 15 feet / 5m and you want unclipped 110dB peaks from a typical speaker, you need a pretty insane amp, turns out.

What speakers can do that? Don't think I'd enjoy that at this stage in my life, but would have back in the day no doubt.

 

[watchnerd]

Amps should sound the same if you are not running out of power, but I don't know if people appreciate how quickly you can run out of power.

If you are listening at 15 feet / 5m and you want unclipped 110dB peaks from a typical speaker, you need a pretty insane amp, turns out.

And speakers to avoid thermal compression and distortion.

Better get some PA speakers.

 

[Beave]

There are so many details that could go wrong in an amplifier design: power supply noise, input stage noise, cross conduction distortion at low signals, thermal instability at high power level, HF noise if class D, sibilance around 6khz, difficulty to handle the speaker load...
For sure the classic measurements tools are not able to catch all the defaults.
It is mandatory to listen to a new amp candidate and try it with the chosen speakers.

Not this crap again....

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...annot-be-measured.20808/page-108#post-2314293

 

[JSmith]

I kept changing speakers and treat my room and never be happy.

You could have taken some in room measurements and applied some EQ.


JSmith

 

[kyuu]

Perhaps I missed it, but did the OP say what the previous amp was and what the replacement was? It's not impossible they were using some piece of crap before, or something that was unsuitable for their setup.

Pretty sure the objectivist stance is that any competent amp running within its limits sounds the same, not that it's impossible for an amp to cause issues. Why would we even care about testing them if there was no chance of a problem?

 

[valerianf]

"What are classic measurement tools ?"
Nowadays the measurements that are published on website forums.

"Ermm no... There isn't a single amp on this planet that peaks or does not amplify right at 6kHz."
We do not know that: there is no published measurement of a 6khz sinus fundamental and the resulting FFT at the output.
In the old time of printed magazines, there were some brave testers that were injected a square wave and looking at the output result: some amps were showing some very bad behavior. Nowadays they are in the category "all amps are sounding the same"!

 

[Beave]

 

[voodooless]

there is no published measurement of a 6khz sinus fundamental and the resulting FFT at the output.

We do have sweeps of frequency vs THD, THD vs power/Voltage per frequency, and we also have a multitone, which is arguably a worse case scenario compared to a single sine. They may not exactly hit 6 kHz all the time, but more than close enough.

 

[Mart68]

In the old time of printed magazines, there were some brave testers that were injected a square wave and looking at the output result: some amps were showing some very bad behavior. Nowadays they are in the category "all amps are sounding the same"!

Your argument would be better served if you could link to specific examples.

 

[oleg87]

"What are classic measurement tools ?"
Nowadays the measurements that are published on website forums.

"Ermm no... There isn't a single amp on this planet that peaks or does not amplify right at 6kHz."
We do not know that: there is no published measurement of a 6khz sinus fundamental and the resulting FFT at the output.
In the old time of printed magazines, there were some brave testers that were injected a square wave and looking at the output result: some amps were showing some very bad behavior. Nowadays they are in the category "all amps are sounding the same"!

This 6khz thing seems to be some kind of pathological fixation for you, with zero evidence presented that this problem exists at all. As people have explained to you elsewhere, sweeps of frequency response and distortion across frequency are a routine part of amplifier tests and Amir's panel would catch such misbehavior. When you fail to process anything that that anyone tells you, this is starting to increasingly feel like trolling.

 

[witwald]

At the very least most HiFi amps are signature tuned.

Keep it in mind that an individual's signature is relatively well associated with that particular person, and can be scientifically examined (measured?) to determine if it is a forgery or not. Hence, by the same token, if an amplifier is "signature tuned", then it might be expected that it can also be scientifically examined to determine if any particular amplifier is a forgery or not.

But just because it does not distorted does not mean it's either neutral nor fully transparent.

By definition, distortion is non-neutral, and non-transparent, to signals that it affects. Hence, if an amplifier does not distort, it has to be, by definition, "neutral" and "transparent".

Far from neutral and in case of Elactransparency.

What is this, this "electransparency"? It seems to be a new term destined to be added to the vocabulary of the "golden eared" reviewers of audio equipment. Or is it just another confounding variable/term being introduced to prop up the premise that non-distorting amplifiers are somehow "non-neutral"?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

By definition, distortion is non-neutral, and non-transparent, to signals that it affects. Hence, if an amplifier does not distort, it has to be, by definition, "neutral" and "transparent".

Neutrality also requires (reasonably) flat FR. Audible dips and/or peaks are rare in modern amplification, but if present they preclude neutrality absent EQ compensation.

 

[witwald]

Neutrality also requires (reasonably) flat FR. Audible dips and/or peaks are rare in modern amplification, but if present they preclude neutrality absent EQ compensation.

As a non-flat frequency response is (amplitude) distortion, hence I can only but agree.

 

[mcochris]

If you are listening at 15 feet / 5m and you want unclipped 110dB peaks from a typical speaker, you need a pretty insane amp, turns out.

Interesting, I didn’t realize that. In my specific case, 110 dB peaks from a speaker with 88 dB/2.83 V @ 1 m sensitivity (Yamaha NS-5000), 3-4 meters listening distance would require 1425 watts according to ChatGPT 4o. Yikes!

 

[peng]

We do not know that: there is no published measurement of a 6khz sinus fundamental and the resulting FFT at the output.

There is, Amir could have measured that if he wanted to, but I recall at least one posted right here on ASR. Regardless, the 2nd, 3rd harmonics of 6 kHz Sinus are 12, 18 kHz, so I assume you have perfect hearing at such high frequencies? Keep in mind if there are significant 12, 18 kHz harmonics, the results will show up in the SINAD Amir always include in his tests, so hard to imagine anything in the >80 dB SINAD would be the cause of such harmonics even if the device has 0 noised.

Many people older than 40 likely don't...,so lucky you, maybe enjoy the sibilance you are hearing well lol, joking, obviously..

 

[Mart68]

I can get there with 130 watts which is less than the amp delivers into 4 ohms (clips at 160 watts according to Stereophile). But I never listen at those sort of levels. Don't see the need.