All About UFO's

[Chester]

What “craft” has been evidenced? And how do we know so much about how its magic field works? Honestly this thread has gone from a handful of mis-informed views, to total fantasy.

I may start a thread about all the pixies that must be moving the leaves around in my garden. It would be as rational a topic as this has become.

 

[WillBrink]

What “craft” has been evidenced?

You have either ignored what's been posted intentionally or being lazy. I will not re post for you or anyone else.

And how do we know so much about how its magic field works? Honestly this thread has gone from a handful of mis-informed views, to total fantasy.

Then hike yourself out of the thread and go to a safe space, or use the ignore option and put me in that file.

I may start a thread about all the pixies that must be moving the leaves around in my garden. It would be as rational a topic as this has become.

Please do. Make sure to supply the astronaut, fighter pilots, admirals, ex CIA scientists, etc who have seen them. Supply the vid for the chief radar operator from the most advanced warship we have who tracked them, and so forth. If you do that, then your pixy thread may be interesting.

 

[Chester]

Well, according to how you’ve conducted yourself in this thread, I can just pick and choose the anecdotes that suit my argument.

You’ve neglected to mention all the trained observers who have misidentified known objects in the sky. I get it, you’re desperate for everyone to agree with your point of view, but this thread would be much more interesting if we could have some more open mindedness and less arrogance.

I’m completely open to your point of view but bring something more than stories and deliberate half truths.

 

[WillBrink]

Well, according to how you’ve conducted yourself in this thread, I can just pick and choose the anecdotes that suit my argument.

You’ve neglected to mention all the trained observers who have misidentified known objects in the sky. I get it, you’re desperate for everyone to agree with your point of view, but this thread would be much more interesting if we could have some more open mindedness and less arrogance.

I’m completely open to your point of view but bring something more than stories and deliberate half truths.

Not a single one exists from me in this thread. Feel free to supply an example. That comment alone ends any support of critical thinking on your end. The debate as it were, is moot. I find the bulk of the evidence is beyond compelling there's something in our airspace - and oceans if the retired admiral and Ex Head of National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is correct - that supports NHI of some kind. You do not apparently. What they are remains to be fully determined.

I'm not here to convince you per se. Don't care one damn bit what you believe. I did want to add some information in the form of vids, articles. etc I thought might be of value to some who may not be aware of much of it.

Some hopefully took a look at some of it and found it of value in terms of forming their view of the topic, some ignored it no doubt.

 

[solderdude]

That's a different issue and topic. For example, the pilots to made the recent "leaked" vids said they were intentionally made difficult to see. Remember, they returned to the carrier and can watch their own vids. According to them, they were much clearer. I have no doubt they can get, and posses, far better vids they aint sharing with us.

Convenient that the evidence was 'seized' by the guys in the helicopters.

Two, there's a field created around some of those craft, what ever it may be, well established in terms of what cameras and human eyes see, which interferes with radar, cameras, etc. The field is a very strong electromagmetic in nature.

An electromagnetic field that also camouflages so you can't take sharp images but they were sharp when looking back at the carrier before they were seized.

So, there's several reasons we don't get the best vid. Finally, some vid that does exist is quite clear, but the object may be moving so damn fast it's difficult to capture.

You are saying it is difficult to capture, seems to be overtaken by the jet (analysis of that guy looking at the screen data) yet the video exists but was seized and is not leaked like the other ones.

There's more pics and vids coming out all the time due to so many phones, etc but I can't even get mine up and running in time to catch my dog doing something funny, much less have it out and filming at precisely the right time a UAP just happens to be there.

Yep, my problem exactly, even with a camera its a hassle. Also the distance is an issue (field of view).

Finally, For myself, due to how easy it is for anyone with a phone or comp to fake photos, unless confirmed by someone expert in forensic photography or similar expert analysis, I assume it's a fake. With AI, etc is only getting worse. Even vids are pretty easy to fake for those with the basic skills. I hope telling the fakes from the legit stuff will at least remain.

It feels a bit like the 'chemtrails' thing. There are pictures of airliners supposedly releasing chemicals. All fake yet there is a substantial crowd believing it is true. It's all a bit convenient. I understand the appeal of it all. I guess in my lifetime I will never know nor will there be any real evidence that will be public.

For this reason, even having seen 'something weird' myself, I can't be bothered too much. There is too much I actually can do something with.
Fun that there are guys (and gals I assume) that are totally into this and gives them something to do. I suppose there are meets and there is a whole community and websites/forums sharing thoughts.

Considering that what it might be does not want to be known, photographed, filmed, followed, seen and has been doing that trick for ages isn't going to be caught with its pants down any time soon I reckon.
It is nice to believe one of them crashed and is in the capable hands of the US government but no one ever leaked anything over the years.
It's a puzzle, one that will never be solved I reckon.

 

[WillBrink]

Convenient that they were 'taken' by the guys in the helicopters.


An electromagnetic field that also camouflages so you can't take sharp images but they were sharp when looking back at the carrier before they were seized.


You are saying it is difficult to capture, seems to be overtaken by the jet (analysis of that guy looking at the screen data) yet the video exists but was seized and is not leaked like the other ones.


Yep, my problem exactly, even with a camera its a hassle. Also the distance is an issue (field of view).



It feels a bit like the 'chemtrails' thing. There are pictures of airliners supposedly releasing chemicals. All fake yet there is a substantial crowd believing it is true. It's all a bit convenient. I understand the appeal of it all. I guess in my lifetime I will never know nor will there be any real evidence that will be public.

For this reason, even having seen 'something weird' myself, I can't be bothered too much. There is too much I actually can do something with.
Fun that there are guys (and gals I assume) that are totally into this and gives them something to do. I suppose there are meets and there is a whole community and websites/forums sharing thoughts.

I can't really disagree with anything above. I'm conveying what I know/read/view and such. I can say the UFO/UAP "community" are very diverse, and range from those who buy into all of it, to those who got added to it against there will in that one day they're doing their jobs as a fighter pilot or other, never gave a second thought to the topic, and thrust into it when something wild takes place they're involved in. Hopefully separating the signal from the noise in all this continues along.

 

[solderdude]

Hopefully separating the signal from the noise in all this continues along.

To me the S/N ratio seems extremely poor where the frightening part is that most of the noise masquerades as signal.
This appears to be the biggest problem about this topic.
Maybe ... the more one knows about it the more one realizes that they actually don't know much about it. Certainly true for audio. Still learning every day, and have been doing that for the last 45 years or so. Still so much I don't know.

 

[WillBrink]

To me the S/N ratio seems extremely poor where the frightening part is that most of the noise masquerades as signal.
This appears to be the biggest problem about this topic.
Maybe ... the more one knows about it the more one realizes that they actually don't know much about it. Certainly true for audio. Still learning every day, and have been doing that for the last 45 years or so. Still so much I don't know.

Probably the most cogent post in this thread.

 

[voodooless]

Let’s interject with some real science:

 

[WillBrink]

Let’s interject with some real science:

I saw it when it came out as that's one of the YT channels I follow. I don't pretend to understand a good portion of the physics being covered in that vid. I do think if there's NHI visiting our planet, they're not employing warp style drives. Descriptions have me and others thinking something like a hyperpace travel which is inter dimensional in nature. As wild as it sounds, seemingly science fiction fun, both are rooted in actual science, none break the rules of physics as we currently understand them. I realize for some it's difficult to take in, and I get that too. When you consider that we went from the Wright Brothers to walking on the moon in under 100 years (both of which were said to be impossible BTW...), it's really not that difficult to imagine the level of tech that we may have in say 1000 years, or another civilazation would have with 10k years, 100k years, or a few million years, on we humans. We are actually on the edge of new understanding that will be as big a leap as Newtonian physics was to Enstinien physics, and will take us beyond spacetime to something even more fundemental. That's according to the more progressive theoritcal physcists as I understand it. I find the topic endlessly facinating.

 

[WillBrink]

Do any of you know of Jacques Vallée? He's likly done more investigations on UFO phenomena than anyone. What's most interesting about him is, he's an outsider to both the UFO community and the traditonal science community. His is a most interesting history and he's shunned by some in the UFO community as his is a much more nuanced view, and he's not convinced it's what even the typical UFO types think it is, and he's more of the opinion they're manipulating us in some way. That's only 8 mins long:

 

[oceansize]

I saw it when it came out as that's one of the YT channels I follow. I don't pretend to understand a good portion of the physics being covered in that vid. I do think if there's NHI visiting our planet, they're not employing warp style drives. Descriptions have me and others thinking something like a hyperpace travel which is inter dimensional in nature. As wild as it sounds, seemingly science fiction fun, both are rooted in actual science, none break the rules of physics as we currently understand them. I realize for some it's difficult to take in, and I get that too. When you consider that we went from the Wright Brothers to walking on the moon in under 100 years (both of which were said to be impossible BTW...), it's really not that difficult to imagine the level of tech that we may have in say 1000 years, or another civilazation would have with 10k years, 100k years, or a few million years, on we humans. We are actually on the edge of new understanding that will be as big a leap as Newtonian physics was to Enstinien physics, and will take us beyond spacetime to something even more fundemental. That's according to the more progressive theoritcal physcists as I understand it. I find the topic endlessly facinating.

Any idea of faster than light travel breaks down because the theory of relativity prohibits the principle of causality being broken by the reversal of cause and effect, which the very concept of FTL travel breaks as the arrival of an object using FTL means of travel, such as hyperspace, might be witnessed by observers elsewhere in the Universe as preceding the take-off.

 

[Randy Bessinger]

Why hasn’t SETI found evidence of intelligent life elsewhere? What are the “odds” of intelligent life elsewhere? Finally, how did life begin on earth? If not earth, elsewhere? Perhaps, life is a statistical anomaly…who can say at this time in our history? To me, these are the questions that are important.

Speculating as if we know the answers to these questions is putting the cart before the horse IMO.

 

[RayDunzl]

Why hasn’t Seti found evidence of intelligent life elsewhere?

It's a big place out there.

What are the “odds” of intelligent life eleswhere?

Assuming we are the "proof of concept", I'd say 100%

Finally, how did life begin on earth?

Why is there anything? Why stop at "life".

To me, these are the questions that are important.

Certainly provides something to ponder.

 

[WillBrink]

Why hasn’t Seti found evidence of intelligent life elsewhere?

That depends on who you ask and how you ask it. There's the Fermi paradox of course, and various possibilities discussed:

Here's The Real Reason Why We Still Haven't Found Alien Life

The Milky Way Galaxy alone is home to between 100 billion and 400 billion stars, and each is potentially orbited by planets.

www.sciencealert.com

What are the “odds” of intelligent life eleswhere?

Very high according to even the more conservative scientists working in the field. All the ingredients for life are common in the universe, planets are very common, and when you're talking about numbers like that, the likelihood or "odds" of us being the only intelligent life is considered darn close to zero: "The Milky Way Galaxy alone is home to between 100 billion and 400 billion stars, and each is potentially orbited by planets. There are probably at least two trillion galaxies like ours in the observable universe, each one populated by trillions of planets orbiting hundreds of billions of stars."

What are the odds they have visited us? That's a very different Q/issue concerning whether they are visiting us, hence the thread...

Finally, how did life begin on earth? If not earth, elsewhere? To me, these are questions that are important.

How life began remains a mystery we may never be solved. There's some theories of course, and models that are suggestive, but while evolution is well verified once life got started, how it got started is not. Options are it was a natural process that simply happened, God(s), panspermia which ranges from microbes from another planet that hitched a ride on say a comet, to NHI being involved.

 

[Randy Bessinger]

It's a big place out there.



Assuming we are the "proof of concept", I'd say 100%



Why is there anything? Why stop at "life".



Certainly provides something to ponder.

It is a big place out there, but so far nothing, like I said, maybe we are an anomaly. Why there is anything is a great question but perhaps unknowable. Sean Carroll (a bayesian) is the one who got me thinking when he said perhaps the odds of life evolving is almost as great as the universe existence. Who knows, but right back atcha…how did life start here on Earth? I think that question will be answered but hasn’t yet to my knowledge. Proof of concept doesn’t give me odds. My understanding is that we are (as far as we know) the most complex thing in the universe.

 

[Randy Bessinger]

That depends on who you ask and how you ask it. There's the Fermi paradox of course, and various possibilities discussed:

Here's The Real Reason Why We Still Haven't Found Alien Life

The Milky Way Galaxy alone is home to between 100 billion and 400 billion stars, and each is potentially orbited by planets.

www.sciencealert.com

Very high according to even the more conservative scientists working in the field. All the ingredients for life are common in the universe, planets are very common, and when you're talking about numbers like that, the likelihood or "odds" of us being the only intelligent life is considered darn close to zero: "The Milky Way Galaxy alone is home to between 100 billion and 400 billion stars, and each is potentially orbited by planets. There are probably at least two trillion galaxies like ours in the observable universe, each one populated by trillions of planets orbiting hundreds of billions of stars."

What are the odds they have visited us? That's a very different Q/issue concerning whether they are visiting us, hence the thread...

How life began remains a mystery we may never be solved. There's some theories of course, and models that are suggestive, but while evolution is well verified once life got pstarted, how it got started is not. Options are it was a natural process that simply happened, God(s), panspermia which ranges from microbes from another planet that hitched a ride on say a comet, to NHI being involved.

I think we will solve how life started on Earth. I don’t think you can leap from wow the universe is big to there has to be intelligent life elsewhere. What is your basis if we don’t know how it happened here. Odds come into play. At this point, I hope there is life elsewhere but until we know more, I think it is speculation. I believed as you but Carrolls observations made sense to me. I would love for it to be true, but I am 77 years old and the same speculation has been proposed for a long time. I want more proof.

We defintely should keep looking.

 

[WillBrink]

I think we will solve how life started on Earth.

I hope so, but short of a time machine or aliens telling is it was them, I suspect will remain hypothesis as to how it happened.

I don’t think you can leap from wow the universe is big to there has to be intelligent life elsewhere. What is your basis if we don’t know how it happened here. Odds come into play.

Yes they do. My basis was above but: All the ingredients for life are common in the universe, planets are very common, and when you're talking about numbers like that, the likelihood or "odds" of us being the only intelligent life is considered darn close to zero: "The Milky Way Galaxy alone is home to between 100 billion and 400 billion stars, and each is potentially orbited by planets. There are probably at least two trillion galaxies like ours in the observable universe, each one populated by trillions of planets orbiting hundreds of billions of stars."

When working with those types of numbers, the odds of us being alone are as close to zero as one could ask for short of confirmation. That's the common and accepted view among most scientists in the field currently, and it only gets more robust. One can put the most pessimistic of numbers for example into the Drake equation and still end up with thousands, if not millions, of planets with intelligent life.

At this point, I hope there is life elsewhere but until we know more, I think it is speculation. I believed as you but Carrolls observations made sense to me. I would love for it to be true, but I am 77 years old and the same speculation has been proposed for a long time. I want more proof.

We defintely should keep looking.

We have literally just started looking in any real sense of the word, not even a cosmic eye blink time wise. It's all speculation until it's not. We now have major resources and very smart people looking both far far away and locally, and that's very encouraging. As Clarke said:

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."




Arthur C. Clarke

 

[Randy Bessinger]

I hope so, but short of a time machine or aliens telling is it was them, I suspect will remain hypothesis as to how it happened.

Yes they do. My basis was above but: All the ingredients for life are common in the universe, planets are very common, and when you're talking about numbers like that, the likelihood or "odds" of us being the only intelligent life is considered darn close to zero: "The Milky Way Galaxy alone is home to between 100 billion and 400 billion stars, and each is potentially orbited by planets. There are probably at least two trillion galaxies like ours in the observable universe, each one populated by trillions of planets orbiting hundreds of billions of stars."

When working with those types of numbers, the odds of us being alone are as close to zero as one could ask for short of confirmation. That's the common and accepted view among most scientists in the field currently, and it only gets more robust. One can put the most pessimistic of numbers for example into the Drake equation and still end up with thousands, if not millions, of planets with intelligent life.

We have literally just started looking in any real sense of the word, not even a cosmic eye blink time wise. It's all speculation until it's not. We now have major resources and very smart people looking both far far away and locally, and that's very encouraging. As Clarke said:

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."




Arthur C. Clarke

You don’t need to lecture me on how big the universe is…bigger than we can imagine. I understand what you are saying but basically I guess your position is end of story, there is life and even intelligent life out there. Perhaps there is but you never give actual odds…just 100% I guess….not a good bayesian. Like I said I hope there is and I fully endorsed your analysis at one time, but rethought it after listening to Sean Carroll. His website is preposterous universe.

Like I said I want there to be life elsewhere…otherwise what a “waste of space”. But since we are the most complex thing we know of in the universe I will wait for more data.

 

[WillBrink]

You don’t need to lecture me on how big the universe is…bigger than we can imagine. I understand what you are saying but basically I guess your position is end of story, there is life and even intelligent life out there. Prrhaps, there is but you never give actual odds…just 100% I guess….not a good bayesian. Like I said I hope there is and I fully endorsed you analysis but rethough it after listening to Sean Carroll. His website is preposterous universe.

No can give accurate odds at this time. What NASA has to say on the topic of odds:

Life in the Universe: What are the Odds? - NASA Science

We don't know when, or even if, we'll find life beyond Earth, but NASA scientists continue the hunt among the thousands of exoplanets confirmed in the galaxy so far.

science.nasa.gov

A recent attempt didn't have encouraging conclusion however:

The statistical chances of their being other intelligent life in the universe are “exceptionally rare,” according to a new study from the University of Oxford.

In the paper, scientists from Oxford’s Future of Humanity Institute, theorize that as life evolved on earth, in many cases it depended on a series of unlikely “revolutionary transitions.” Given how late intelligent life evolved on this planet, the chances of similar developments happening on other planets, before they are no longer able to sustain life, were highly unlikely, they said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/all-alone-oxford-study-says-chance-of-intelligent-life-elsewhere-extremely-rare/