• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

All About UFO's

If it was a Razorback balloon, it would still be a UAP. Unidentified Aerial Porcine.

It still gets me that with all the advanced imaging tech available to the military, that we still have to ponder over low-resolution images.

Fifty-seven years ago the frame below was shot from a NASA tracking station in Hawaii. The object in the frame was at an altitude of one hundred miles, moving at seventeen thousand miles an hour.

View attachment 545549
To be fair, they knew exactly where to look and how fast to pan the camera, plus time to prepare. If something moving between 200-1000 MPH (a rogue pig balloon) shows up in your yard and all you've got are your wits and a smartphone, it is not fair to expect such good results.
 
We can't do that for long list of things that are accepted, or mostly accepted, in the science world, but, there appears to be different flavors of what falls under the panpsychism umbrella. To me it sounds more like philosophy, but the two do cross paths more than people like to admit.
Most stuff that is accepted in science that can't be proven per se is also more or less self-evident. Like... "are people conscious"? We have very little alternative but to proceed as if they are. "Is the universe expanding"? Can't prove it exactly, but redshift leaves few alternatives. Both are open to dispute if experiment or new evidence contradicts these ideas.

"Rocks are probably a little bit conscious" barely rises to the level of reasonable philosophy and it is far from an unavoidable conclusion. I guess it's possible to imagine an experiment that would probe whether rocks are in some way aware of their surroundings or change internal states independently... but maybe it is not possible for panpsychists to take their own ideas seriously enough to actually DO these experiments.
 
If something moving between 200-1000 MPH (a rogue pig balloon) shows up in your yard . . .

simpsonspig.gif
 
I think panpsychism is treated too seriously by too many people. "How do you know" and "how does it work" are treated as foolish questions by these people.
When they devise a legitimate experiment for measuring the consciousness of a rock we can resume using the word "serious" in reference to those people. Until then I more or less consider them to have given up on science in favor of getting followers on social media and appearing on crackpot podcasts.
I thought the paper Sabine discusses proposes at least a different sort of answer to encounters with UAPs and Aliens, and for that reason it was interesting even though not convincing.

In philosophical ontology, humankind entered a garden of forking paths at least a couple of millennia ago. People taking various paths have been arguing and debating ever since. Of course, epistemology becomes relevant when you ask a researcher "how do you know that?". Some people wind up changing their minds about particular paths, and backtrack through the forks to pick a different branch. More measurements continue to be made, and more theories dreamt up and explored in greater depth. We have not arrived at a final theory of everything, and the very feasibility of explanation without circularity or infinite regress is under question. Is material reductionism successful? Is consciouness (itself an amibiguous term with multiple possible referents) a fundamental property of the universe or parts thereof, or is it an emegent property, or is it separate from matter? I view all of it as work in progress by scientists, philosophers and theologians more knowledgeable and smarter than I am. I find some arguments more persuasive or insightful, and some arguments less so, but those are my personal judgements that I do not spend time debating with anyone else.
 
To demonstrate panpsychism, all you need is a blindfold and a good boomerang.

1784373388260.jpeg

1784372308735.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Most stuff that is accepted in science that can't be proven per se is also more or less self-evident. Like... "are people conscious"? We have very little alternative but to proceed as if they are. "Is the universe expanding"? Can't prove it exactly, but redshift leaves few alternatives. Both are open to dispute if experiment or new evidence contradicts these ideas.

"Rocks are probably a little bit conscious" barely rises to the level of reasonable philosophy and it is far from an unavoidable conclusion. I guess it's possible to imagine an experiment that would probe whether rocks are in some way aware of their surroundings or change internal states independently... but maybe it is not possible for panpsychists to take their own ideas seriously enough to actually DO these experiments.
Like string theory and entropic time? Too many examples of that not being accurate. The idea there must be a particle to explain gravity and neatly fit into the Standard Model of particle physics as expected "self evident" part has gone no place for 100 years or so. There's grades of it too, where there's convergent evidence for it, such as you outline with universal expansion, some others, remain strictly in the maths and or hypothetical, such as multi verse and so forth. I will continue to keep an open mind on such things, and a curiosity all things possible, reality is clearly not as we see/experience per work of people like Hoffman, et al.
 
Like string theory and entropic time? Too many examples of that not being accurate. The idea there must be a particle to explain gravity and neatly fit into the Standard Model of particle physics as expected "self evident" part has gone no place for 100 years or so. There's grades of it too, where there's convergent evidence for it, such as you outline with universal expansion, some others, remain strictly in the maths and or hypothetical, such as multi verse and so forth. I will continue to keep an open mind on such things, and a curiosity all things possible, reality is clearly not as we see/experience per work of people like Hoffman, et al.
Right, but those things you mentioned are considered promising but entirely hypothetical. I don't think it's fair to say they're accepted as science. They're not considered ridiculous because the math can be made to agree with models that actually do fit the evidence, nor are they considered "real" yet.

That's worlds apart from panpsychism which requires accepting (sometimes explicitly) non-physical explanations for cognition. Reject materialism and rationality because why, some yahoo on YouTube says so with a college-level vocabulary? Pff.
 
Is material reductionism successful?
My hot take is it's easily the best we've got in terms of results... But It's poorly suited to questions of meaning, purpose, or explaining anything subjective, which leads some to (incorrectly IMO) decide it's wrong or somehow run its course.

You actually see that same reaction / dialogue in shallow pools like audio or deep ones like the nature of consciousness. Hmm...
 
Right, but those things you mentioned are considered promising but entirely hypothetical. I don't think it's fair to say they're accepted as science. They're not considered ridiculous because the math can be made to agree with models that actually do fit the evidence, nor are they considered "real" yet.
I don't pretend to have any expertise in the area of string theory, but many in the highest levels of physics are convinced sting theory explains the quantum world, including Leonard Susskind, Edward Witten, Yoichiro Nambu, etc. Many accept string theory, but some don't for obvious reasons, and are still looking for answers elsewhere. As it can't make predictions and be tested and falsified, it has to remain theoretical. So even if it's not testable, it is viewed as "real" by many in the physics community. My sense is it's lost some momentum over the years as it's gone to a dead end. Interestingly: Recent survey of more than 1,600 physicists conducted by researchers in collaboration with the American Physical Society's Physics Magazine. It asked what respondents considered the best candidate for a theory of quantum gravity. The results were:

  • 19%: String theory / M-theory
  • 18%: Gravity is not fundamentally quantum
  • 13%: Loop quantum gravity
  • 29%: No opinion
  • The remainder favored other approaches

That's worlds apart from panpsychism which requires accepting (sometimes explicitly) non-physical explanations for cognition. Reject materialism and rationality because why, some yahoo on YouTube says so with a college-level vocabulary? Pff.
You're telling me you have not really looked into the topic without telling me that. Again, various people at the top of their respective fields have circled back toward panpsychism like positions due mostly to the fact materialism has failed hard in explaining consciousness and other related topics that falls under a panpsychism umbrella of sorts. It's not a simple topic, not one that can be dismissed by you or anyone else. There's lot of silly wu connected to it as expected, dismissal is a mistake, hence why we have such interest/ficus at such high levels. It's likely not what most think it is, unless they have shallow knowledge and a closed/limited mind. The reality is, science and philsophy intersect, amd have as long as humans have gotten passed "God did it" answers to everything:


Various who are a tad above college level types and their opinions/positions on the topic:

 
Last edited:
It's not a simple topic, not one that can be dismissed by you or anyone else.

The deeper we investigate physics, the more we realize how much we don't know about the fundmental laws of nature. In certain respects, it seems we have become stuck. Sure, we are making some progress, but it is slow, and the more we investigate, the more questions come up. Moreover, many big questions that have been around almost a century continue to remain unresolved. Perhaps different perspectives are needed.
 
The deeper we investigate physics, the more we realize how much we don't know about the fundmental laws of nature. In certain respects, it seems we have become stuck. Sure, we are making some progress, but it is slow, and the more we investigate, the more questions come up. Moreover, many big questions that have been around almost a century continue to remain unresolved. Perhaps different perspectives are needed
" Each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds appointed to guard the past." - Maurice Maeterlinck
 
Last edited:
Recent survey of more than 1,600 physicists conducted by researchers in collaboration with the American Physical Society's Physics Magazine.
I think the results of that same survey (it asked several questions) were discussed in one or two YouTube videos on the SkyDivePhil channel of Phil Halpern, and Sean Carroll was a guest in the discussion. Or the video I watched might have been about a similar survey of physicists.
Various who are a tad above college level types and their opinions/positions on the topic:
Kuhn is a treasure, and his CloserToTruth channel is probably my favorite YouTube channel. I came across it during the Covid-19 lockdown, which is when I discovered YT itself. I do not have a clear memory of watching Kuhn during his PBS years. What a parade of stellar guests Kuhn has interviewed over the years! Lots of them he has interviewed multiple times. Interviews with Steven Weinberg, Roger Penrose, Frank Wilczek, Sean Carroll, Ed Witten, Carlo Rovelli, Lee Smolin, Juan Maldacena, David Z Albert, Tim Maudlin and Paul Davies are among the many highlights that I have watched on that channel.

Kuhn himself is magnificent in his lifelong focus on the most important topics concerning the Universe and Consciousness, treating every guest with respect, clarifying and accepting any assumptions they make. The guests themselves are hugely knowledgeable in their field of expertise, and are great communicators, with the recent series of interviews Kuhn has done with Saul Perlmutter on the current state of prominent issues in cosmology being an example.

Kuhn is 80 years of age, and still as sharp as ever. I wish him long life and continued good health, but I do wonder what will become of his YT channel and website when he passes eventually. Most of my daily YT consumption over the past four and a half years has been videos about the ongoing war (now two major wars), but when that war ends in a year or two, I will go back to a steady diet of science and math related YT videos.
 

Kuhn is a treasure, and his CloserToTruth channel is probably my favorite YouTube channel. I
came across it during the Covid-19 lockdown, which is when I discovered YT itself. I do not have a clear memory of watching Kuhn during his PBS years. What a parade of stellar guests Kuhn has interviewed over the years! Lots of them he has interviewed multiple times. Interviews with Steven Weinberg, Roger Penrose, Frank Wilczek, Sean Carroll, Ed Witten, Carlo Rovelli, Lee Smolin, Juan Maldacena, David Z Albert, Tim Maudlin and Paul Davies are among the many highlights that I have watched on that channel.

Kuhn himself is magnificent in his lifelong focus on the most important topics concerning the Universe and Consciousness, treating every guest with respect, clarifying and accepting any assumptions they make. The guests themselves are hugely knowledgeable in their field of expertise, and are great communicators, with the recent series of interviews Kuhn has done with Saul Perlmutter on the current state of prominent issues in cosmology being an example.

Kuhn is 80 years of age, and still as sharp as ever. I wish him long life and continued good health, but I do wonder what will become of his YT channel and website when he passes eventually. Most of my daily YT consumption over the past four and a half years has been videos about the ongoing war (now two major wars), but when that war ends in a year or two, I will go back to a steady diet of science and math related YT videos.
Anyone not watching CloserToTruth is doing life wrong. It's the best YT has to offer and proves it does not have to be a collection idiotic garbage. Kuhn has a PhD in neuroscience from MIT himself, so no slouch in the science arena, obviously well read in other topics too. He travels all over the world to attend various conferences and interview people who are SME in various topics, often very esoteric topics.
 
Back
Top Bottom