All About UFO's

[solderdude]

An observation can be that the sun rotates around the earth but reality is different and the earth rotates around the sun.
One can be convinced of both 'visions' being 'the truth' depending on what 'evidence' is given to them (what they are told / want to hear).

While both viewpoints are based on observations the conclusion differs because of actual evidence, not just an observation or info from 'like minded' people (religion).
Actual hard evidence is what's missing. One can be convinced the evidence exists and that some know 'the truth' but the actual truth may or may not be what any believer (convinced or not) believes. It remains a belief (convinced or in doubt).

There are plenty of 'experts' in audio as well which some folks are convinced have 'actual knowledge' and tell the truth.... but ... is it and where is the undeniable proof ?

 

[WillBrink]

An observation can be that the sun rotates around the earth but reality is different and the earth rotates around the sun.
One can be convinced of both 'visions' being 'the truth' depending on what 'evidence' is given to them (what they are told / want to hear).

While both viewpoints are based on observations the conclusion differs because of actual evidence, not just an observation or info from 'like minded' people (religion).
Actual hard evidence is what's missing. One can be convinced the evidence exists and that some know 'the truth' but the actual truth may or may not be what any believer (convinced or not) believes. It remains a belief (convinced or in doubt).

There are plenty of 'experts' in audio as well which some folks are convinced have 'actual knowledge' and tell the truth.... but ... is it and where is the undeniable proof ?

I think we go around in circles on this topic to know conclusions. I posit there's undeniable evidence there's something in our airspace that can't be explained via explanations, demonstrating performance we can't explain, and that's well corroborated by advanced radar and other tracking systems, people I would consider SME on the topic (fighter pilots, astronauts, radar operators, etc) and so forth. I do not claim to the evidence of what they are is supported by what I would call undeniable proof at this time. So again, we are left with possibilities such as extremely advanced human tech, to NHI of some kind, to any number of possibilities discussed here various times. The problem is any answer leaves us with more Qs than answers, and then we have a long list of highly credible people who claim they are NHI. Those people are either lying, crazy, delusional, or telling the truth as they know it.

 

[solderdude]

And yet ... there is no alien device nor tech to show for.

I am sure the vast majority of them are telling the truth as they know it.
And it is the 'as they know it' part that is the problem as the word 'know' can safely be replaced by the word 'believe' or rather 'convinced'.

I have been hearing/reading for decades about this and sadly there only are some vague images that could be anything.
I would welcome some real public evidence that is in the open and as undeniable as the knowledge (not conviction) that the earth orbits the sun.

Sure it is all fascinating but just like in the world of subjective audio where 'everything matters' there are thousands of people convinced (because they clearly hear it) that all kinds of impossible claims are very true and science simply can't explain most of it. Its group think.

 

[WillBrink]

And yet ... there is no alien device nor tech to show for.

I am sure the vast majority of them are telling the truth as they know it.
And it is the 'as they know it' part that is the problem as the word 'know' can safely be replaced by the word 'believe' or rather 'convinced'.

I have been hearing/reading for decades about this and sadly there only are some vague images that could be anything.
I would welcome some real public evidence that is in the open and as undeniable as the knowledge (not conviction) that the earth orbits the sun.

Sure it is all fascinating but just like in the world of subjective audio where 'everything matters' there are thousands of people convinced (because they clearly hear it) that all kinds of impossible claims are very true and science simply can't explain most of it. Its group think.

Group think is always an aspect of it and one always has to be careful not to fall into that trap. Humans being inherently tribal always drift toward group think and it's very problematic, no doubt about that. No one is immune to bias, I think confirmation bias at the top of chain we all suffer from to one degree or another.

 

[somebodyelse]

I posit there's undeniable evidence there's something in our airspace that can't be explained via explanations, demonstrating performance we can't explain, and that's well corroborated by advanced radar and other tracking systems, people I would consider SME on the topic (fighter pilots, astronauts, radar operators, etc) and so forth.

Something that can't be explained by explanations??? I'm not sure what you mean by that - probably something more sensible than it sounds. We've got no evidence in the public domain that's sufficient to require non-terestrial explanations. We've got a load of things where there's insufficient information to draw any firm conclusions, but that's just what happens when there's a lack of information.

 

[WillBrink]

Something that can't be explained by explanations??? I'm not sure what you mean by that - probably something more sensible than it sounds. We've got no evidence in the public domain that's sufficient to require non-terestrial explanations. We've got a load of things where there's insufficient information to draw any firm conclusions, but that's just what happens when there's a lack of information.

Can't be explained by usual/typical explanations such as another plane, balloons, birds, etc. which I covered... Interesting you ignored the rest of the text I wrote that literally put your additional comments in context, as to non- terrestrial (not terestrial ) origins, etc.

 

[somebodyelse]

Can't be explained by usual/typical explanations such as another plane, balloons, birds, etc. which I covered... Interesting you ignored the rest of the text I wrote that literally put your additional comments in context, as to non- terrestrial (not terestrial ) origins, etc.

They didn't really put it on context though - the ones that remain unexplained are unexplained because there isn't sufficient information available to explain them. We're told about corroborating evidence from radar and/or other instruments in a few cases, but that information isn't made public so we can't verify it. Similarly the on-video data from military sources is often obscured which prevents significant analysis - where such data is available it presents a mundane explanation as entirely plausible, at least so far. The problem here is that there may be more details that can't be released on national security grounds, but without them we're in the unverifiable "trust us, it really exists, honest!" realm like we are with people who tell us they've seen proof but can't tell us about it.

Eye witness reporting, even from trained observers, is known to be unreliable for well known reasons, similar to the reasons we distrust people reporting night-and-day differences in DAC sound. This is sadly obvious from cockpit voice recorders, and subsequent interviews when pilots are lucky enough to survive their loss of situational awareness. It's also clear from blue on blue incidents where the 'enemy' has been visually confirmed by pilots before engaging. These happen with very experienced aircrew, often a LOT more experienced for civilian pilots in terms of hours flown. Pilots weren't lying in their reporting in these incidents, but they were mistaken in their perception. On the other hand sailors who reported rogue waves weren't believed until one hit an oil rig, at which point there was verifiable data from multiple sensors to back up the witness statements.

 

[mhardy6647]

And yet ... there is no alien device nor tech to show for.

You're kidding, right?

Human's never woulda come up with the transistor or the IC without... some help from their friends.

 

[solderdude]

Well that could be tech from the future instead on NHI.
Similar to Startrek's 'transparent aluminium'.

Transparent Aluminum (ALON): Properties, Applications, Cost

From sci-fi to advanced armor: Discover Transparent Aluminum's (ALON) unique properties, how it differs from metal, and why its complex manufacturing is a key investment for defense and aerospace.

www.hrccnc.com

 

[OldHvyMec]

Tomorrow will mark the 50th anniversary of the UFO sightings on July 4th, 1976, in the East Bay of Northern CA. I was 21 years old and standing with two young ladies (I married one of them and am still married to her, to this day) and a good buddy who was in my wedding as a groomsman.

We were standing in a driveway taking in the cooler night air when we all saw a trio of lights moving very slowly eastward in front of Mount Diablo. As we watched, the lights moved in unison at about 30-35 thousand feet (it could have been higher or lower); they started moving north towards us and then broke formation and crossed the horizon in 3 directions.

First we were just asking, "what the heck is that?" When they crossed the horizon from a basic hover to out of sight, we couldn't believe what we were seeing. As I counted to 5 or 6 or so, they went from center to out of sight. I asked a few people at the time, with my estimates of height and distance from me to where they disappeared to the north (over my head), west, and east, what they said the speed could be, as high as 4-6,000 miles per hour.

That is just my story. It was pictured in the Antioch Ledger (a local newspaper) and was commented on by several police departments in the area, reporting concerned citizens calling in the same light formations. The local paper reported that over the next few days, well over 1200 people (if my memory serves me) had reported to them the same sighting.

30 years later, I made mention to a neighbor about the incident while we were having a BBQ along with a few friends, and he spoke right up and called his 2 brothers over, who had witnessed the same sighting in a backyard in Pittsburg, CA with his parents. We talked about that for quite a few hours. He was 12 years old at the time.

The wife just came in to remind me of the sighting a few hours ago and asked if I still remembered it. I did indeed.

I don't think we have many visitors from "out there", but I do think we had visitors come here many years ago and never left. I just happen to think they are USO now vs just doing a flyby. I think they are the same USO off the coast of Southern CA and northern Mexico that have been spotted off and on many times in that area and reported by Mexico's Navy, US Navy, and local fishermen in most of the coastal countries from US CA all the way to Chile.

Happy 4th

With regards, and everyone have a safe 4th.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

I think we go around in circles on this topic to know conclusions. I posit there's undeniable evidence there's something in our airspace that can't be explained via explanations, demonstrating performance we can't explain, and that's well corroborated by advanced radar and other tracking systems, people I would consider SME on the topic (fighter pilots, astronauts, radar operators, etc) and so forth. I do not claim to the evidence of what they are is supported by what I would call undeniable proof at this time. So again, we are left with possibilities such as extremely advanced human tech, to NHI of some kind, to any number of possibilities discussed here various times. The problem is any answer leaves us with more Qs than answers, and then we have a long list of highly credible people who claim they are NHI. Those people are either lying, crazy, delusional, or telling the truth as they know it.

Sounds very much like “there’s undeniable proof that cables sound different because thousands of audiophiles hear differences between cables”.

 

[solderdude]

Sounds very much like “there’s undeniable proof that cables sound different because thousands of audiophiles hear differences between cables”.

More like:
“there’s undeniable proof that cables sound different because thousands of audiophiles, casual listeners, experts, YT reviewers, musicians and music professionals hear differences between cables and most cable manufacturers wrote papers about it and posted compelling technical evidence as to the how and why”.

 

[WillBrink]

Sounds very much like “there’s undeniable proof that cables sound different because thousands of audiophiles hear differences between cables”.

What ever makes you happy.

 

[mhardy6647]

Well that could be tech from the future instead on NHI.
Similar to Startrek's 'transparent aluminium'.

Transparent Aluminum (ALON): Properties, Applications, Cost

From sci-fi to advanced armor: Discover Transparent Aluminum's (ALON) unique properties, how it differs from metal, and why its complex manufacturing is a key investment for defense and aerospace.

www.hrccnc.com

Good point, and potentially difficult to tease apart scientifically.
On the other hand, if any sort of time travel (related to humans) has ever occurred -- wouldn't we have always known about it?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

More like:
“there’s undeniable proof that cables sound different because thousands of audiophiles, casual listeners, experts, YT reviewers, musicians and music professionals hear differences between cables and most cable manufacturers wrote papers about it and posted compelling technical evidence as to the how and why”.

It’s a conspiracy I tell you, a conspiracy

 

[mhardy6647]

It’s a conspiracy I tell you, a conspiracy

They don't want you to know the truth, so they obfuscate.
I've seen it a million times before.

 

[somebodyelse]

Good point, and potentially difficult to tease apart scientifically.
On the other hand, if any sort of time travel (related to humans) has ever occurred -- wouldn't we have always known about it?

Only as far back as anyone travelled and shared the knowledge. If the knowledge wasn't shared and no material left behind then it's as if nothing happened, other than someone having the idea of a really strong glass.

 

[Taiga]

If they did all of that and unanimously concluded that all reasonable data and sightings are explained by terrestrial phenomena and human endeavors, would you be satisfied?

And in addition to everyone with insider knowledge, personal observations, scientific credentials, and top secret clearances, the proceedings and materials were observed by Elon Musk, Tom Hanks, the Pope, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Sir David Attenborough, Michio Kaku, Avi Loeb, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Lee Greenwood, William Shatner, Neil Young, the remaining Village People, Melinda Gates, LeBron James, Lev Parnas, Yo-Yo Ma, Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, Ken Burns, E. L. James, Martin Scorcese, Shohei Ohtani, Eugene Kranz, Dolly Parton, Quentin Tarantino, Malala Yousafzai, Nick Fuentes, Jodi Foster, and two of your favorite relatives and they all agreed that the proceedings were well done and above board, would you then disregard all of your videos, books, and essays that claim or imply evidence of extraterrestrial visitation and the existence of

That tells me you don't follow the topic and know who those people are, as they have been very clear that is not the case. That's the actual problem.

So you would only accept the findings of your proposed blue ribbon workgroup if they are in agreement with your premature beliefs of what they ought to reveal. Even though they will have access to the top of the top most top secret documents that have presumably been hidden in the top most secret vault buried underground topped by a mile deep encasement of top quality concrete and two feet of really nice topsoil. Even though you, I am guessing, do not have access to those very same documents.

Yet you are willing to re-post and be an enthusiast for information posted by self-proclaimed experts under conditions with less availability to the universe of data and the threat of repercussions, such as from breaking an NDA, than what you just proposed as needed to meet your criteria for revealing the facts.

That’s the actual problem.

 

[Audiofire]

Even though they will have access to the top of the top most top secret documents that have presumably been hidden in the top most secret vault buried underground topped by a mile deep encasement of top quality concrete and two feet of really nice topsoil.

You have no evidence

 

[WillBrink]

You have no evidence

Such arguments and positions only seem to go in one direction with them. If not for double standards, they'd have no standards.