All About UFO's

[Mart68]

why not?

Can't be trusted, I suppose.

 

[terryforsythe]

Following Eisenhower, Presidents no longer had sufficient security clearance to be told the truth. Or so the story goes.

Personally, I think it is just that, a story. But, if it is true, it wouldn't be the first time unelected bureaucrats flagrantly violated the U.S. constitution.

 

[Mart68]

Personally, I think it is just that, a story. But, if it is true, it wouldn't be the first time unelected bureaucrats flagrantly violated the U.S. constitution.

There's a pragmatic point of view that says when it comes to national security anything is justified, so if the story were true I could understand it. The President could in theory be anyone and there's no guarantee they would keep the secret or not attempt to use the information to their own advantage.

Eisenhower did warn that, if left unchecked, the military-industrial complex would end up running the show.

 

[mhardy6647]

why not?

The more interesting question, I'd posit, is to whom is "the story attributed?"
My guess is that the trail runs kind of cold...

 

[mhardy6647]

There's a pragmatic point of view that says when it comes to national security anything is justified,

Including misleading links, doctored video, scripted disclosures, misleading/false flag "experts" on the payroll, etc.
No?

Remember what minor gov't official P. Pilate said to an apparently no-account Jewish criminal one Friday morning:

What is truth?

 

[Mart68]

The more interesting question, I'd posit, is to whom is "the story attributed?"
My guess is that the trail runs kind of cold...

This wikepedia article covers most of the bases but does not mention that Eisenhower was the last President to be privy to it. That would make some sense as he was the last President to also hold a top military rank.

Majestic 12 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Note the conclusion by one researcher that the whole thing was a hoax set up by Air Force counter-intelligence.

 

[sam_adams]

Note the conclusion by one researcher that the whole thing was a hoax set up by Air Force counter-intelligence.

It's still "working as designed" to this day.

 

[Petrushka]

There's a pragmatic point of view that says when it comes to national security anything is justified, so if the story were true I could understand it. The President could in theory be anyone and there's no guarantee they would keep the secret or not attempt to use the information to their own advantage.

Eisenhower did warn that, if left unchecked, the military-industrial complex would end up running the show.

Past tense. National Defense and Homeland Security are the priesthood.

 

[terryforsythe]

There's a pragmatic point of view that says when it comes to national security anything is justified, so if the story were true I could understand it. The President could in theory be anyone and there's no guarantee they would keep the secret or not attempt to use the information to their own advantage.

Eisenhower did warn that, if left unchecked, the military-industrial complex would end up running the show.

We can't go into politics, but Article II, Section 1, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution specifically states "[t]he executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Section 2, clause 1 further states "[t]he President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy..." Those two clauses provide such high level power to the President that the President outranks those designating classified information, and even the classification system itself. Thus, under the U.S. Constitution, the President may not be denied access to ANY classified information.

Nonetheless, the U.S. Constitution oftentimes is referred to as a "living, breathing document," meaning that it is open to interpretation. In the U.S., that interpretation is done by the Judicial branch. If Presidential authority over classified information were to be challenged, the Judicial branch would have to do some cartwheels in their analysis to side with the challenger. If the challenger made it past appeal at the circuit court level, which is highly unlikely, ultimately it would end up at the U.S. Supreme Court. The chances of the Supreme Court diminishing Presidential authority over classified information is slim to none, especially so now given the current makeup of the Supreme Court.

All that being said, the number of classified documents within the U.S. government is staggeringly large, and growing larger every day. There is no way one person would be able to have knowledge of everything that is classified. It is plausible that the President is not informed about classified UAP information. But, if the President asks for a briefing, it must be disclosed to the President. Otherwise, those withholding the information are in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and their duties as employees of the executive branch.

 

[terryforsythe]

Also, I have seen stories in the UFO field that Presidents who have asked about UFOs were told that they did not have a need to know. I find such stories to be preposterous. Anyone using that as justification for withholding information from the President not only risks losing their job - those in the Executive branch serve at the will of the President, but also federal prosecution.

Now, I can envision someone responding with something like the President probably does not want to know in order to retain plausible deniability. But, I just don't see any recent Presidents responding with "you're right, don't tell me."

 

[Mart68]

There is no way one person would be able to have knowledge of everything that is classified. It is plausible that the President is not informed about classified UAP information. But, if the President asks for a briefing, it must be disclosed to the President. Otherwise, those withholding the information are in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and their duties as employees of the executive branch.

The President would have to ask not just the right questions, but also ask them of someone who actually knew. The second part is the tricky bit.

Not many people would have access to 'the truth.' Everyone else would brief that there's no substance to it because as far as they know, that's correct. So unless he asks someone who knows, there's no constitutional breach - and of course the President doesn't know who knows.

You can further fudge the issue by using external contractors who aren't obliged to reveal anything to anyone.

 

[terryforsythe]

The President would have to ask not just the right questions, but also ask them of someone who actually knew. The second part is the tricky bit.

Not many people would have access to 'the truth.' Everyone else would brief that there's no substance to it because as far as they know, that's correct. So unless he asks someone who knows, there's no constitutional breach - and of course the President doesn't know who knows.

You can further fudge the issue by using external contractors who aren't obliged to reveal anything to anyone.

All of that is correct except, possibly, that the President doesn't know who knows.

Recently, Christopher Mellon publicly named numerous positions within government/military that supposedly are gatekeepers of the knowledge of UAPs. UFO researchers have identified the individuals currently serving in those positions. If Mellon is correct, the President need only request a briefing on the topic from those people. As an aside, I doubt Mellon only recently learned of those positions. That information probably was available to the President, upon asking, as far back as 2017. I think the more pertinent question is whether the President really cares. The last time a President publicly showed a sincere interest was three decades ago.

With regard to external contractors, that was addressed in the UAP Disclosure Act as originally drafted, but was removed by one of the House committees (the Intelligence committee if I remember correctly) prior to the Act going to the floor for vote.

 

[WillBrink]

Speaking of Rubio, "...Journalist Michael Shellenberger joins 'Elizabeth Vargas Reports' to discuss Secretary of State Marco Rubio's continued push for the government to disclose information about UFOs to the American public. A Rubio adviser recently told Shellenberger the secretary of state believes the U.S. has recovered alien technology and given it to private contractors for the military."

 

[terryforsythe]

Here is what Rubio recently said about the interview in "Age of Disclosure":

As with anything in this topic, take it with a truck load of salt. I'm not providing this video as support for what the host is saying, but only for Rubio's current statements regarding the interview in the documentary.

 

[terryforsythe]

Here is a very interesting interview with astrobiologist Dr. Steven Benner. It is 1.5 hrs long, but well worth watching by anyone interested in the question of whether life exists outside of Earth. The interview begins with the discussion of the analysis of the return samples from the asteroid Bennu, which fills in the gap for the constintuents of RNA previously missing from asteroid samples. The interview also discusses, in some depth, evidence for life on mars, not only from current missions, but with re-analysis of data anomolies from the Viking mission in the 70s. Molecular biology also is discussed quite a bit. It is quite fascinating.

 

[sonitus mirus]

Here is a very interesting interview with astrobiologist Dr. Steven Benner. It is 1.5 hrs long, but well worth watching by anyone interested in the question of whether life exists outside of Earth. The interview begins with the discussion of the analysis of the return samples from the asteroid Bennu, which fills in the gap for the constintuents of RNA previously missing from asteroid samples. The interview also discusses, in some depth, evidence for life on mars, not only from current missions, but with re-analysis of data anomolies from the Viking mission in the 70s. Molecular biology also is discussed quite a bit. It is quite fascinating.

• NASA did not find RNA or anything close to RNA. They found simple sugars and organics.
Source: NASA press release

Sugars, ‘Gum,’ Stardust Found in NASA's Asteroid Bennu Samples - NASA

The asteroid Bennu continues to provide new clues to scientists’ biggest questions about the formation of the early solar system and the origins of life. As

www.nasa.gov

• The real findings were basic organics and minerals that we have seen in meteorites for decades.
Source: Reuters science report

Building blocks of life found in samples from asteroid Bennu

Rock and dust samples retrieved by NASA from the asteroid Bennu exhibit some of the chemical building blocks of life, according to research that provides some of the best evidence to date that such space rocks may have seeded early Earth with the raw ingredients that fostered the emergence of...

www.reuters.com

• These are simple chemical pieces, not biological parts.
Source: Nature Geoscience paper

Bio-essential sugars in samples from asteroid Bennu - Nature Geoscience

Samples returned from asteroid Bennu contain bio-essential sugars such as ribose and glucose that may have formed in the parent asteroid from brines containing formaldehyde, according to a geochemical study.

www.nature.com

• The video title makes routine astrochemistry sound like a major discovery.
Source: Same NASA link above for what was actually claimed

• Using Steven Benner’s name gives it more drama than the data supports.
The published findings do not claim anything about RNA being present.

• Nothing in the data suggests life, pre life, or RNA formation.
Source: NASA official summary

NASA’s Bennu Asteroid Sample Contains Carbon, Water - NASA

Initial studies of the 4.5-billion-year-old asteroid Bennu sample collected in space and brought to Earth by NASA show evidence of high-carbon content and

www.nasa.gov

• Calling this a breakthrough is just marketing. The real result is that Bennu has some common organic molecules we already expected.

 

[terryforsythe]

NASA did not find RNA or anything close to RNA.

I did NOT say they found RNA. Re-read what I wrote.

The real findings were basic organics and minerals that we have seen in meteorites for decades.

Clearly you did not watch the video.

If you disagree with the content in Dr. Brenner's published papers, portions of which he discusses in the video, you should write a rebuttal paper explaining why his analyses are incorrect.

 

[terryforsythe]

• The real findings were basic organics and minerals that we have seen in meteorites for decades.

Evidently you did not even read the articles you cited. This is stated in the first article you cited:

"Sugars essential to life

Scientists led by Yoshihiro Furukawa of Tohoku University in Japan found sugars essential for biology on Earth in the Bennu samples, detailing their findings in the journal Nature Geoscience. The five-carbon sugar ribose and, for the first time in an extraterrestrial sample, six-carbon glucose were found. Although these sugars are not evidence of life, their detection, along with previous detections of amino acids, nucleobases, and carboxylic acids in Bennu samples, show building blocks of biological molecules were widespread throughout the solar system." (Underline added).

 

[sonitus mirus]

I did NOT say they found RNA. Re-read what I wrote.


Clearly you did not watch the video.

If you disagree with the content in Dr. Brenner's published papers, portions of which he discusses in the video, you should write a rebuttal paper explaining why his analyses are incorrect.

Fair enough. I’ll admit I have not dug into this deeply enough to give an objective take on it.

 

[sonitus mirus]

Evidently you did not even read the articles you cited. This is stated in the first article you cited:

"Sugars essential to life

Scientists led by Yoshihiro Furukawa of Tohoku University in Japan found sugars essential for biology on Earth in the Bennu samples, detailing their findings in the journal Nature Geoscience. The five-carbon sugar ribose and, for the first time in an extraterrestrial sample, six-carbon glucose were found. Although these sugars are not evidence of life, their detection, along with previous detections of amino acids, nucleobases, and carboxylic acids in Bennu samples, show building blocks of biological molecules were widespread throughout the solar system." (Underline added).

I agree with what the article actually says. Ribose, glucose, amino acids, and nucleobases are interesting findings, but none of this is RNA, and RNA was never mentioned in the paper or in NASA’s summary. These are simple chemical building blocks we have also seen in other meteorites for decades.

NASA states directly that these sugars are “not evidence of life” and simply reflect common chemistry in the early solar system.

Sugars, ‘Gum,’ Stardust Found in NASA's Asteroid Bennu Samples - NASA

The asteroid Bennu continues to provide new clues to scientists’ biggest questions about the formation of the early solar system and the origins of life. As

www.nasa.gov

The Nature Geoscience paper makes the same point. It reports the presence of sugars and related organics, but it does not claim anything biological.

Bio-essential sugars in samples from asteroid Bennu - Nature Geoscience

Samples returned from asteroid Bennu contain bio-essential sugars such as ribose and glucose that may have formed in the parent asteroid from brines containing formaldehyde, according to a geochemical study.

www.nature.com

So, the findings are useful for understanding early chemistry, but they do not support any claim that Bennu produced complex biological molecules.