All About UFO's

[Robbo99999]

Yeah, because the Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Greeks, etc were absolutely living hand to mouth and didn't have time for the niceties of civilized life like art, poetry, music, philosophy and other such intellectual pursuits.

Well, some of them might have had time for that, but what proportion of society? Point is, the larger the proportion of your society that has access to good education and having their basic needs fulfilled means that they have more time & potential to think & study beyond their immediate horizons. As I said though, there needs to be some "stressors" as I feel/think the best ideas come when you're really pressed and you need to make some breakthrough's, and when you need to survive, but that's not quite the same as the majority of population being "hand to mouth" - I don't think you can have many breakthroughs when you just have a small elite that is not "hand to mouth".

 

[GaryH]

Yeah, because the Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Greeks, etc were absolutely living hand to mouth and didn't have time for the niceties of civilized life like art, poetry, music, philosophy and other such intellectual pursuits.

Well I'm doubtful the slaves would. These days of course we have a shiny new kind of economic slavery that leaves many unfortunate not to be born into wealth or opportunity (just as the slaves weren't) with little time and means for such niceties and pursuits. It's called capitalism.

 

[Chester]

It’s getting a little political in here, which this thread really doesn’t need.

 

[Robbo99999]

Well I'm doubtful the slaves would. These days of course we have a shiny new kind of economic slavery that leaves many unfortunate not to be born into wealth or opportunity (just as the slaves weren't) with little time and means for such niceties and pursuits. It's called capitalism.

There's certainly an element of that, but I feel that we have more opportunities now than back then.

 

[Sokel]

Link

???
Either it's a wrong link or I don't get it

 

[Sokel]

I do think you have potential for more "genius" when you live in a society that means your basic needs are satisfied and you can concentrate on the abstract & furthering knowledge - because if you're living hand to mouth then you don't have much room to think beyond your immediate predicaments. Having said that, stress/necessity is the mother of all inventions (or that's not quite the saying?), but I think it's true that you need a little space to have the most profound Eureka moments. Maybe today's society allows for more "genius moments" than back then for instance? There's the dumbing down argument of today, and various arguments like that, but back then I'm sure that for everyday people the horizons were likely even narrower. It makes their achievements back then even more remarkable.

When I say genius I don't mean the smart person that became even better through education,etc.
I mean the very special cases of people that really can't help been any other way.
Rich or poor has nothing to do with it,take Srinivasa Ramanujan as an example,you can't start lower than this.

 

[pseudoid]

???
Either it's a wrong link or I don't get it

Antikythera

akitika << my first thought.
This

Yep.
I can't imagine an ordinary guy building the Antikythera akitika mechanism from scratch today,even using previous observations.

Read again.

 

[Sokel]

Antikythera
View attachment 302150
akitika << my first thought.
This

Read again.

It has an interesting preamp in there!

 

[pseudoid]

@Sokel, you must NOT be an 'ordinary guy'...

 

[kemmler3D]

Well, some of them might have had time for that, but what proportion of society? Point is, the larger the proportion of your society that has access to good education and having their basic needs fulfilled means that they have more time & potential to think & study beyond their immediate horizons. As I said though, there needs to be some "stressors" as I feel/think the best ideas come when you're really pressed and you need to make some breakthrough's, and when you need to survive, but that's not quite the same as the majority of population being "hand to mouth" - I don't think you can have many breakthroughs when you just have a small elite that is not "hand to mouth".

Capitalism or slavery or you name it, then and now relatively few of the total population are actively engaged in advancing the forefront of technology.

My point was more that just because it happened a long time ago, doesn't mean there weren't genuis feats of engineering happening. A bit of masonry or machinery being ahead of its time is certainly not evidence of aliens.

Consider the fact that we have maybe a dozen examples of "inexplicable" technology from ancient times - spanning something like 5000 years. In 5000 years you don't think there would be a couple dozen top-tier geniuses like Einstein or Ramanujan (good example) born here and there? They only need to come up with one "alien-level" bit of engineering every 500 years or so. The fact that we haven't rediscovered the means to recreate their work in the past 200 years doesn't really prove anything, when you think about it like that.

Even if the population is mostly hand-to-mouth, that doesn't prevent stunning achievements in engineering when you have such people on the scene.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Same thing, different name, coined to distract the term from alien spaceships.


Well, some of what was said directly contradicts things said by others in earlier hearings unde oath… someone is clearly lying, oath or no oath.

Isn't there some sort of legal exception if you do it while off your meds?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

LOL.

Sorry, I be callin' CGI on that one.

 

[Robbo99999]

When I say genius I don't mean the smart person that became even better through education,etc.
I mean the very special cases of people that really can't help been any other way.
Rich or poor has nothing to do with it,take Srinivasa Ramanujan as an example,you can't start lower than this.

It's true you get the rare individuals that contribute so much & break through all their boundaries, but having the majority rise up and have a larger number of people making iterative improvements is also an important driving force, maybe more important, and can only serve to have such incredible people with potential like the person you highlighted being allowed to make even better contributions & differences to society - hence my statement that nowadays with less "hand to mouth" than previous millennia (lol) and more widespread access to education & free time means even greater possibilities for everyone as well as those crazy gifted folk! How does this fit into the wider discussion we've been having - just that the achievements of earlier civilisations is even more astounding given the context. And where does that fit into alien involvement, as this is a UFO thread, I don't know, maybe it makes it more likely that aliens influenced early society....but I doubt that really.....but that was an argument I think someone was making earlier about how could such ancient civilisations have such achievements & knowledge. I'm not saying it's aliens, and I'm not saying it's aliens!

 

[Robbo99999]

Capitalism or slavery or you name it, then and now relatively few of the total population are actively engaged in advancing the forefront of technology.

My point was more that just because it happened a long time ago, doesn't mean there weren't genuis feats of engineering happening. A bit of masonry or machinery being ahead of its time is certainly not evidence of aliens.

Consider the fact that we have maybe a dozen examples of "inexplicable" technology from ancient times - spanning something like 5000 years. In 5000 years you don't think there would be a couple dozen top-tier geniuses like Einstein or Ramanujan (good example) born here and there? They only need to come up with one "alien-level" bit of engineering every 500 years or so. The fact that we haven't rediscovered the means to recreate their work in the past 200 years doesn't really prove anything, when you think about it like that.

Even if the population is mostly hand-to-mouth, that doesn't prevent stunning achievements in engineering when you have such people on the scene.

It will only stop them if those genius people aren't being allowed to breakthrough & influence, which was probably less likely millennia ago vs nowadays. It does make some of the amazing achievements of past ancient civilisations quite amazing.

 

[GaryH]

Sorry, I be callin' CGI on that one.

Did you actually watch that debunking video I posted? That shows it was almost certainly a balloon. No invoking of CGI needed.

 

[kemmler3D]

if those genius people aren't being allowed to breakthrough & influence, which was probably less likely millennia ago vs nowadays.

I don't know how we'd determine that, really. I'm no historian, but isn't it a trope that anything too fancy would be declared "witchcraft" by the local reactionaries in ancient times?

 

[pseudoid]

And where does that fit into alien involvement, as this is a UFO thread, I don't know,

You think?? They are reading all of this and snickering LMFAO?

 

[Robbo99999]

You think?? They are reading all of this and snickering LMFAO?

Hey, I'm just talking about some interesting social ideas, I'm not too hot on adopting one side or the other when it comes to aliens being UFO's! It's not beyond the realms of possibility that there are alien craft in the universe & here, but I'm not sold on it in terms of credible beyond doubt evidence.

 

[Robbo99999]

I don't know how we'd determine that, really. I'm no historian, but isn't it a trope that anything too fancy would be declared "witchcraft" by the local reactionaries in ancient times?

Well, it doesn't mean it was aliens, it can't be concluded that it comes down to that. (and I know you're not saying that, you're saying the opposite)

 

[mhardy6647]

@Sokel, you must NOT be an 'ordinary guy'...

seemed fitting.