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All About UFO's

Interesting that you introduce the legal analogy. Conflation of legal and scientific methods and norms means people are often talking at crossed purposes about 'evidence' etc. That word has several definitions and different applications.
Indeed it does and context is everything. I think the context of the meaning of 'evidence' as regards to this subject has already been established previously in this thread as being the meaning that is close to the legal definition of the word.

To my mind the question before the jury is 'Is there sufficient evidence to conclude that there is here a phenomena worthy of further investigation?'

The verdict to be either 'Yes there is' or 'No there isn't'.

This is why I am confused as to why some people seem to think this is all about 'belief.'
 
3I is a good example. (updated my avatar to an image I took a couple of weeks ago)

If you get your "information" from youtube, here's what you may get as an initial page. "mysterious, Dark Forest, mainstream science repressing" all the tropes are there, mostly based on Avi Loeb's semi-tongue in cheek paper which can be read here - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2507.12213

But who will read the paper in full and its conclusion?

7. CONCLUSION
We strongly emphasize that this paper is largely a pedagogical exercise, with interesting discoveries and strangeserendipities, worthy of a record in the scientific literature. By far the most likely outcome will be that 3I/ATLAS isa completely natural interstellar object, probably a comet, and the authors await the astronomical data to supportthis likely origin.



1753265771607.png


And we got (among previous other observations) Hubble to confirm (yesterday) the cometary nature

1753266272009.png
 
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Indeed it does and context is everything. I think the context of the meaning of 'evidence' as regards to this subject has already been established previously in this thread as being the meaning that is close to the legal definition of the word.

No, I disagree. I think (some of) the people taking a quasi-legal approach are floundering, and simply throwing slop at the thread hoping to generate a preponderance.

To my mind the question before the jury is 'Is there sufficient evidence to conclude that there is here a phenomena worthy of further investigation?'

The verdict to be either 'Yes there is' or 'No there isn't'.

Certainly relevant organisations can reasonably address their strategic, budgetary and operational goals and constraints against this question. Beyond I think that the 'jury/verdict' analogy is melodramatics/theatrics (no offence intended).

I may react to the legal-political context differently, I did a degree, followed many environmental cases, and tend to think that our (UK/Australian, probably US is similar) adversarial system is one of the dramatic arts, but with baggage.
 
Indeed it does and context is everything. I think the context of the meaning of 'evidence' as regards to this subject has already been established previously in this thread as being the meaning that is close to the legal definition of the word.

To my mind the question before the jury is 'Is there sufficient evidence to conclude that there is here a phenomena worthy of further investigation?'

The verdict to be either 'Yes there is' or 'No there isn't'.

This is why I am confused as to why some people seem to think this is all about 'belief.'
in the context of the forum in which this thread exists, there isn't a jury. That's not how science works.

The plaintiffs in this case are of course free to decide that their quantum dots are worthy of further investigation. But if they do, it's up to them to provide evidence that is worthy of science (extraordinary claims and such)
 
in the context of the forum in which this thread exists, there isn't a jury. That's not how science works.

The plaintiffs in this case are of course free to decide that their quantum dots are worthy of further investigation. But if they do, it's up to them to provide evidence that is worthy of science (extraordinary claims and such)

Yes, case law doesn’t determine what exists, rather it decides what’s legal. Not so much the relevant question.
 
No, I disagree. I think (some of) the people taking a quasi-legal approach are floundering, and simply throwing slop at the thread hoping to generate a preponderance.
From the O/P - 'This thread is for anything pertaining to UFO's. It can be news articles like above, speculation or even satire'

Clearly thread was not intended as a serious scientific investigation. Intention would appear to be primarily for entertainment purposes only.
 
From the O/P - 'This thread is for anything pertaining to UFO's. It can be news articles like above, speculation or even satire'

Clearly thread was not intended as a serious scientific investigation. Intention would appear to be primarily for entertainment purposes only.

So, no need for juries either. :)

But we are discussing the ‘evidence’ tangent just now.
 
in the context of the forum in which this thread exists, there isn't a jury. That's not how science works.

The plaintiffs in this case are of course free to decide that their quantum dots are worthy of further investigation. But if they do, it's up to them to provide evidence that is worthy of science (extraordinary claims and such)
I think you're automatically assuming that this thread has to exist in the context of science simply because it's on ASR.

Plenty of the discussion on this forum has no relation to science - for example sections addressing food, film and television, music.

Some have even suggested that the audio sections don't represent scientific investigation. Title of this forum relates to it's original intent which was to discuss papers from the AES and similar.

I've already pointed out why this discussion and nonsense in audio are unrelated. Where am I in error in making that distinction?

Regarding evidence, if nothing else, we have the US Navy footage. Officially confirmed. Official line is 'We don't know what these objects are.' Surely a sufficient starting point for scientific investigation? If you disagree, I'd like to understand why.
 
I may react to the legal-political context differently, I did a degree, followed many environmental cases, and tend to think that our (UK/Australian, probably US is similar) adversarial system is one of the dramatic arts, but with baggage.
To an extent, yes, but one of those situations where the alternatives are all worse.
 
Photo and video can be faked or misinterpreted, eye witness accounts can be lies or mistaken. Official statements can be disregarded as disinformation. All these things are still 'evidence' by the definition of the word.

Images can also contain artifacts e.g. pixel values and structures that do not faithfully represent the actual scene being imaged. This may or may not be intentional by the person holding the camera. Artifacts can be by-products of the equipment, methods, lighting, contrast, motion and other factors in which the photon data was collected from the scene. Artifacts are also easily introduced when attempting to enhance an image in post-processing. Applications such as deconvolution, sharpening and noise reduction filters and algorithms, non-linear “stretching” of the image that compresses the histogram of brightness values, and other common techniques are notorious for introducing artifacts and falsely altering details.

Astro imaging by professionals and experienced amateurs follow standardized methods of data collection, data reduction (aka image calibration) and processing to avoid the introduction of artifacts. This is also true for imaging in other disciplines such as medicine, biology and, I assume, intelligence and military. But the final image is only as faithful as the skill, knowledge, experience, and integrity of the imaging team and the entities that choose to publicize an image.

If all of the steps taken to collect and process an image are not disclosed or are not reproducible when the raw data is provided to competent people, it can be very difficult to assess the quality, veracity, and faithfulness of an image or video.

As I indicated in a previous post, ETs seem to be very clever in revealing themselves to people who do not know how to operate a camera.
 
I think you're automatically assuming that this thread has to exist in the context of science simply because it's on ASR.
If it's a thread in which people present "evidence" then yes I think it does exist in the context of science.
Plenty of the discussion on this forum has no relation to science - for example sections addressing food, film and television, music.
I don't think those threads are remotely equivalent. How can a thread about UFOs not involve science?

Some have even suggested that the audio sections don't represent scientific investigation. Title of this forum relates to it's original intent which was to discuss papers from the AES and similar.

I've already pointed out why this discussion and nonsense in audio are unrelated. Where am I in error in making that distinction?
Nonsense presented as facts without credible evidence. That's the link

Regarding evidence, if nothing else, we have the US Navy footage. Officially confirmed. Official line is 'We don't know what these objects are.' Surely a sufficient starting point for scientific investigation? If you disagree, I'd like to understand why.
When there is an overwhelmingly more likely explanation however prosaic, then the onus is on person with the whacky theory to do the proving.
Pretty much like when someone posts on ASR that they hear a difference between power cables and expect us to explain to them why (but don't use the overwhelmingly more likely explanation - that's being closed-minded)
 
Images can also contain artifacts e.g. pixel values and structures that do not faithfully represent the actual scene being imaged. This may or may not be intentional by the person holding the camera. Artifacts can be by-products of the equipment, methods, lighting, contrast, motion and other factors in which the photon data was collected from the scene. Artifacts are also easily introduced when attempting to enhance an image in post-processing. Applications such as deconvolution, sharpening and noise reduction filters and algorithms, non-linear “stretching” of the image that compresses the histogram of brightness values, and other common techniques are notorious for introducing artifacts and falsely altering details.

Astro imaging by professionals and experienced amateurs follow standardized methods of data collection, data reduction (aka image calibration) and processing to avoid the introduction of artifacts. This is also true for imaging in other disciplines such as medicine, biology and, I assume, intelligence and military. But the final image is only as faithful as the skill, knowledge, experience, and integrity of the imaging team and the entities that choose to publicize an image.

If all of the steps taken to collect and process an image are not disclosed or are not reproducible when the raw data is provided to competent people, it can be very difficult to assess the quality, veracity, and faithfulness of an image or video.

As I indicated in a previous post, ETs seem to be very clever in revealing themselves to people who do not know how to operate a camera.
I completely agree. However in regard to your last sentence, there are some very clear photographs of objects that are purported to be 'flying saucers.'



Plenty more available to view on line. Are these 'evidence'? Strictly speaking in the legal definition of the term, yes. Are they 'proof'. No, for the reasons you have outlined.
 
Nonsense presented as facts without credible evidence. That's the link
Whilst some of the links presented may be described as 'nonsense' not all are. For example links to testimony given at the U.S Senate investigation.

These are 'facts' insomuch as that investigation did happen and people did testify. That's not disputed. What inferences we draw from that is an entirely different question.

There's no relation to someone posing about quantum dots and claiming they improve sound quality.

When there is an overwhelmingly more likely explanation however prosaic, then the onus is on person with the whacky theory to do the proving.
Pretty much like when someone posts on ASR that they hear a difference between power cables and expect us to explain to them why (but don't use the overwhelmingly more likely explanation - that's being closed-minded)
There is no possibility within the confines of an internet thread for someone to 'prove' the existence of extra-terrestrial craft.

We could equally have a discussion about manned moon landings - how would someone 'prove' those incidents really happened? Of course we accept they did on the overwhelming balance of evidence and probability, but that isn't 'proof.'

We do have some links posted here to evidence that there is a genuine phenomena, of unascertained cause. I think that's the best we can hope for.

The same is not true of magic power cables where we can automatically dismiss since no evidence for their efficacy has been provided, despite the fact that if they did have special powers it would be trivial to present evidence and proof for that.
 
I watch whatever documentary on Discovery and other channels, with Alaska green men or FAA pilots that saw stuff. My final conclusion, at least for those cases involving sky movements, impossible flights in 90deg angles at impossible speed - I guess these are optical illusions induced to subjects (no matter if whole cities or isolated persons) by sophisticated tools, no matter if terrestrial or not. So probably I believe in conspirations.
 
I completely agree. However in regard to your last sentence, there are some very clear photographs of objects that are purported to be 'flying saucers.'



Plenty more available to view on line. Are these 'evidence'? Strictly speaking in the legal definition of the term, yes. Are they 'proof'. No, for the reasons you have outlined.

Very clear photographs? I think that description must have arrived from another dimension.
 
I completely agree. However in regard to your last sentence, there are some very clear photographs of objects that are purported to be 'flying saucers.'



Plenty more available to view on line. Are these 'evidence'? Strictly speaking in the legal definition of the term, yes. Are they 'proof'. No, for the reasons you have outlined.
Why does it look like a soap bubble, and why is it between the photographer and the tree?
 
Some of the ET gatekeepers in this thread are welcome to divulge some clear photos, or maybe they need permission from the men in black :cool:

I’d show you my secret cache, but I forgot everything after the neuralizer.
 
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