All About UFO's

[Mart68]

You obviously did not listen to the podcast

No I didn't, I was responding to the content of your post. You posted the conclusion of the podcast which indicated that I was not going to learn anything new from it. I still think the balloon explanation stretches credibility.

If it were some top secret aircraft crash being mistaken for a 'flying disc', then I could get behind that. There's not much to a balloon of any type, and nothing that experienced air force personnel would mistake for an alien spacecraft to a degree of confidence where they would put out a press release to state that they had recovered one.

 

[kemmler3D]

I do not believed unexplained phenomena “require” an explanation.

I think they are an opportunity to expand the frontier of science, if we are lucky. In this case, no luck yet, but if nothing else this thread proves there's interest in trying.

 

[Sokel]

Anything after 1940 is suspicious of been man-made (other than the natural explanations)

If I was at the alien side I would be a lot more interested at the ancient and medieval testimonies about "flying shields" and stuff.
That would give you a lot more credit.

 

[Somafunk]

No I didn't, I was responding to the content of your post. You posted the conclusion of the podcast which indicated that I was not going to learn anything new from it. I still think the balloon explanation stretches credibility.

If it were some top secret aircraft crash being mistaken for a 'flying disc', then I could get behind that. There's not much to a balloon of any type, and nothing that experienced air force personnel would mistake for an alien spacecraft to a degree of confidence where they would put out a press release to state that they had recovered one.

Spoken like a true believer, they’re out there

 

[Mart68]

Anything after 1940 is suspicious of been man-made (other than the natural explanations)

If I was at the alien side I would be a lot more interested at the ancient and medieval testimonies about "flying shields" and stuff.
That would give you a lot more credit.

The further you go back the more likely it is that people would mistake natural phenomena for something supernatural. They do that today, of course, but now we can check that more thoroughly. We can't do that with medieval testimony. They could have seen anything.

Not sure any contributor here is on the 'alien side'. There's a division between 'It's all a crock' and 'Better explanations are required.'

This is why I try to avoid political discussions - hardly anyone seems capable of understanding that it's possible to take a nuanced position on a complex subject. You're either with us or against us, and that's it. I blame the education system.

 

[Mart68]

Spoken like a true believer, they’re out there

Perfect, see the last para of the post I just made.

 

[Somafunk]

Perfect, see the last para of the post I just made.

What?...... this below?

There's not much to a balloon of any type, and nothing that experienced air force personnel would mistake for an alien spacecraft to a degree of confidence where they would put out a press release to state that they had recovered one.

As I mentioned, its explained in the podcast. The ballon contained highly top secret devices to measure radiation levels,

 

[Mart68]

What?...... this below?

As I mentioned, its explained in the podcast. The ballon contained highly top secret devices to measure radiation levels,

No, post 4205

You miss my point - lets say a balloon containing highly top secret devices crashed in the desert. Do you think it is credible that when the air force personnel got to that crash site, they mistook that balloon wreckage for the wreckage of an alien spaceship? Because I don't.

That does not mean that what crashed was an alien spaceship. That's a jump too far. But I don't see how it could be a balloon either.

 

[Sokel]

The further you go back the more likely it is that people would mistake natural phenomena for something supernatural. They do that today, of course, but now we can check that more thoroughly. We can't do that with medieval testimony. They could have seen anything.

Not sure any contributor here is on the 'alien side'. There's a division between 'It's all a crock' and 'Better explanations are required.'

This is why I try to avoid political discussions - hardly anyone seems capable of understanding that it's possible to take a nuanced position on a complex subject. You're either with us or against us, and that's it. I blame the education system.

If you're interested in medieval battleground history have a look around, they are extremely thorough and detailed about anything happening in the field.
Of course these stuff would have earthly explanations (at least the static ones and those with erratic behavior will remain to find out, etc)

I wouldn't dismiss the observations. But the explanations is a whole other field.

 

[Chester]

I do find the argument being put to some of us that if we do not believe it’s because we don’t understand it or have no knowledge of the topic, quite frankly ridiculous. It’s precisely because I’ve delved so deep into this topic that I don’t believe the vast majority of what’s being put out there these days.

Ignorance of the highest level. I expect it from a certain someone who seems perpetually stuck at the Dunning Kruger phase but I’m surprised to see @terryforsythe support this position, you have seemed fairly open minded (in both directions) throughout this thread.

Makes for an interesting thread I suppose.

 

[Audiofire]

This is why I try to avoid political discussions - hardly anyone seems capable of understanding that it's possible to take a nuanced position on a complex subject. You're either with us or against us, and that's it. I blame the education system.

QFT

 

[terryforsythe]

I do find the argument being put to some of us that if we do not believe it’s because we don’t understand it or have no knowledge of the topic, quite frankly ridiculous. It’s precisely because I’ve delved so deep into this topic that I don’t believe the vast majority of what’s being put out there these days.

Ignorance of the highest level. I expect it from a certain someone who seems perpetually stuck at the Dunning Kruger phase but I’m surprised to see @terryforsythe support this position, you have seemed fairly open minded (in both directions) throughout this thread.

Makes for an interesting thread I suppose.

That misrepresents what I support. Perhaps I should have been more clear. If people who have sufficiently investigated the topic have formed a definitive opinion, that is fine. Indeed, the more I study the topic the more my opinion is moving away from the NHI hypothesis.

The issue I have is when people post derogatory comments about information they clearly did not watch/read, or post ad hominem about people simply because they disagree with their interpretation of the available information. That, in my book, is the epitome of ignorance.

 

[Audiofire]

Gotta be sharp to spot pesky aliens. They are difficult to catch on camera

To be fair, they have a good reason to be shy. They don't fit in

 

[krabapple]

I just saw this on Vetted. Jesse Michels is offering Sean Kirkpatrick a lot of money to go on his show and discuss the WSJ article. I hope he takes it. As previously noted, the WSJ article, at a high level, correlates with the hypothesis as to what is going on that I presented some months ago. I'm not saying the WSJ article is correct, which would be confirmation bias, and there are issues with that article, but I would like to see more investigation into, and discussion of, the topics discussed therein.

View attachment 459278

Ah, chest-beating performative bro-clowns, a common invasive species nowadays.

Are they offering the actual author of the WSJ article (Joel Schectman) the same deal?

When the best pilots we have see them and give chase, track on the most sophisticated radar that exists in a fighter jet, see it on their FLIR system, get vid, and and they are tracked via the most sophisticated radar systems on the planet via multiple warships run by highly trained radar operators, I consider that beyond required evidence to know something is in our airspace that's not any type of aircraft commonly known, much less balloons, birds nor swamp gas. To say other wise at this juncture is head in sand denial and cognitive dissonance. The only Q is what they are. Dr Kaku is 100% correct there. I remain open and agnostic as to what they are, but find all explinations difficult to accept:

Bless Dr. Kaku, but on Meathead's show he's stringing together a lot of suppositions to loft the idea that what we're seeing on earth are real visitors from extraplanetary civilizations. Well, sure , that's strictly possible, if all that stuff he proposes is true - among them, there being an advanced enough civilization, figuring out how to harness Planck energy (especially how to make it work for 'destabilizing space and time' or traversing wormholes in such a way that a living intelligence could actually survive travel by that means), and these amazing aliens deciding Earth, among all of the places one could visit in the universe, is so very interesting. The Kardashev civilizational typology Kaku cites , which dates back to the 1960s, is of course, purely a thought exercise -- we don't know any Type II or III civilizations, and we aren't even *really* a Type I yet -- and surely 'typing' a civilization itself is more complex that simply gauging its energy generations and consumption technology?

These are fun ideas but essentially a form of science speculative fiction. Decades ago Kardashev predicted that we would within a few years find solid proof of extraterrestiral civilizations. Alas, reality happened differently. But astronomy coughs up these entertaining, prophetic characters almost regularly. Avi Loeb, the Harvard guy, is our current one. (Or maybe it's just a Harvard thing ...)

Haha, but I agree, he is much more fun than the run-of-the-mill "UFO community". He came up with the multidimensional hypothesis, yes?

Edit: yes. That's the second video you've posted that I enjoyed enough to watch through at normal speed (Knuth's physics speculations was the other). Congrats! A lapse or three (like "Vallée witnessed the destruction of tapes" rather than "Vallée claims he witnessed ... " and so on) notwithstanding. Ironic that you heaped scorn on Jung (who apparently inspired the Frenchman) earlier in the thread, but flavours hit the palate in unexpected ways. Also fun:

The idea that UFOs -- and Men in Black, and other 'strange creatures from time and space' -- are more akin to malevolent supernatural entities than physical aliens/creatures goes further back than Valee. John Keel was of much the same mind...he called his book on UFOS 'Our Haunted Planet'.

I'm curious to know if any of indefatigable true believers here has even heard of Keel before.

 

[Axo1989]

Bless Dr. Kaku, but on Meathead's show he's stringing together a lot of suppositions to loft the idea that what we're seeing on earth are real visitors from extraplanetary civilizations. Well, sure , that's strictly possible, if all that stuff he proposes is true - among them, there being an advanced enough civilization, figuring out how to harness Planck energy (especially how to make it work for 'destabilizing space and time' or traversing wormholes in such a way that a living intelligence could actually survive travel by that means), and these amazing aliens deciding Earth, among all of the places one could visit in the universe, is so very interesting. The Kardashev civilizational typology Kaku cites , which dates back to the 1960s, is of course, purely a thought exercise -- we don't know any Type II or III civilizations, and we aren't even *really* a Type I yet -- and surely 'typing' a civilization itself is more complex that simply gauging its energy generations and consumption technology?

These are fun ideas but essentially a form of science speculative fiction. Decades ago Kardashev predicted that we would within a few years find solid proof of extraterrestiral civilizations. Alas, reality happened differently. But astronomy coughs up these entertaining, prophetic characters almost regularly. Avi Loeb, the Harvard guy, is our current one. (Or maybe it's just a Harvard thing ...)

I’m all for speculative fiction really, but it somewhat dismays me when the great social media thonkers of our time use these imagined elements as planks of their backyard tree-houses, then present same as something more than playtime.

The idea that UFOs -- and Men in Black, and other 'strange creatures from time and space' -- are more akin to malevolent supernatural entities than physical aliens/creatures goes further back than Valee. John Keel was of much the same mind...he called his book on UFOS 'Our Haunted Planet'.

I'm curious to know if any of indefatigable true believers here has even heard of Keel before.

I may not make the cut as true believer, but The Mothman Prophecies rang a bell. Maybe on the bookshelf of an older relative? My grandmother enjoyed some fun reading, though her mainstay was more le Carré than sci-fi.

 

[WillBrink]

Bless Dr. Kaku, but on Meathead's show he's stringing together a lot of suppositions to loft the idea that what we're seeing on earth are real visitors from extraplanetary civilizations. Well, sure , that's strictly possible, if all that stuff he proposes is true - among them, there being an advanced enough civilization, figuring out how to harness Planck energy (especially how to make it work for 'destabilizing space and time' or traversing wormholes in such a way that a living intelligence could actually survive travel by that means), and these amazing aliens deciding Earth, among all of the places one could visit in the universe, is so very interesting. The Kardashev civilizational typology Kaku cites , which dates back to the 1960s, is of course, purely a thought exercise -- we don't know any Type II or III civilizations, and we aren't even *really* a Type I yet -- and surely 'typing' a civilization itself is more complex that simply gauging its energy generations and consumption technology?

Interesting conjecture, of no real value to me discussion on types of civilizations, etc. I'm talking about what he says at 3:45 - 11:00 ish, which parallels what I was saying about the evidence that does exist, and the burden of proof shifting. He lays out the well established and well confirmed performance characteristics of what ever they are, and asks "who has the capability?" and admits "we don't know." He's 100% correct in that assessment. They exist, what they are, yet to be determined, at least for most of us. I vacillate on how much I think someone in the gubment knows.

 

[Axo1989]

I’m enjoying the way words like ‘requires’ ‘admits’ ‘reveals’ etc are deployed to add heft to some gossamer suppositions. Literary license no doubt.

 

[Chester]

He lays out the well established and well confirmed performance characteristics of what ever they are

Maybe, whatever they are, doesn’t even have performance characteristics, say a speck of dirt, a distant bird, a bug, a pixel.

By always starting from a default position of I wonder what type of exotic technology this latest video captures, you’re limiting your options.

 

[WillBrink]

If you're interested in medieval battleground history have a look around, they are extremely thorough and detailed about anything happening in the field.
Of course these stuff would have earthly explanations (at least the static ones and those with erratic behavior will remain to find out, etc)

I wouldn't dismiss the observations. But the explanations is a whole other field.

I tend to take the topic serious starting approx WWII, as that's when man really takes to the sky, cameras become common, and very detailed observations of UFO happen:

Mysterious UFOs Seen by WWII Airman Still Unexplained | HISTORY

They were cigar-shaped, glowed red and could turn on a dime. Which ruled out even the most sophisticated rockets of t...

www.history.com

Prior to that, there's some amazingly detailed stories about UFO sightings, some going back thousands of years. Via the BBC no less, Churchill himself was well aware, so concerned was he, ordered it covered up as to not cause mass panic:

Churchill ordered UFO cover-up, National Archives show

Declassified files from the last century show government concerns over UFOs, and reveal that Winston Churchill ordered a cover-up to prevent "mass panic".

www.bbc.com

Speaking of pre WWII, Christopher Columbus had a UFO experience which he wrote about in his journal. Historians have offered various possible natural explanations:

A Mysterious Light Gleamed as Columbus Drew Near

On Columbus Day, some ruminations on that glow that the explorer spotted before arriving in the Americas. Could it have been fireworms?

archive.nytimes.com

 

[mhardy6647]

I’m enjoying the way words like ‘requires’ ‘admits’ ‘reveals’ etc are deployed to add heft to some gossamer suppositions. Literary license no doubt.

I read the last two words of the penultimate sentence as gossamer suppositories.
Speaking of alien technology.