• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Alec Baldwin shooting: Lawyer suggests potential sabotage on ‘Rust’ set.

litemotiv

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
318
Likes
589
I truly hope you are not a lawyer. Actually, I'm pretty certain, based on your posts here that you indeed are not.

As far as ad hominem. Yes, I suppose it was. But sometimes it's hard to tell if someone is being obtuse.

People resort to ad hominems when they have no real objective arguments to put forward, it's a sign of weakness.

If you have any actual arguments to put forward instead of these boring remarks i'm all ears, otherwise please just don't respond.
 

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
People resort to ad hominems when they have no real objective arguments to put forward, it's a sign of weakness.

If you have any actual arguments to put forward instead of these boring remarks i'm all ears, otherwise please just don't respond.

Says the person injecting a bunch of hypotheticals into the discussion
 

Raindog123

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,599
Likes
3,554
Location
Melbourne, FL, USA
My opinion on this, and let me start by saying I am a Florida CCW holder.

Yes everyone, always has to be extremely careful with a firearm...

However, it cannot simply be "an actor is always responsible for a gun in his hand and thus guilty". Under normal circumstances, this pistol is not a gun but just a movie prop (still handled by responsible firearm professionals). For the sake of discussion, what if someone maliciously replaces Adam Driver' lightsaber with a real thing, and someone gets hurt? Is Driver to blame for it - even though [in real life] he might know mothing about lightsaber tech? Or, during Doctor Strangelove's filming, the atomic bomb really goes off - again, should we pin on Slim Pickens - a cowboy-character actor, knowing nothing about nuclear bomb safety?

If Baldwin was indeed involved in some boredom can shooting and was the one who brought (or was aware of) real rounds on the set, then yes he is involved! But that needs to be investigated and determined. But if - as an actor - he was handed a 150 year-old prop revolver with an assurance "it is safe", and all He did was "got in the role", then no matter how sad and unfortunate this accident is, I do not see it as "Baldwin is 100% guilty and must go to prison".
 
Last edited:

Slayer

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
583
Likes
859
Yeah, but none of those other topics are speculating how and why someone died or who should be held responsible!

Anyway, point taken I will click elsewhere....
You're missing the point and this is Not speculation.
"How"- By a gun " why"- because a careless individual pointed and pulled the trigger of said gun
"who should be held responsible" Who else but the person who pulled the trigger and possibly others who had contributable knowledge and mishandling.
My opinion on this, and let me start by saying I am a Florida CCW holder.

Yes everyone, always has to be extremely careful with a firearm...

However, it cannot simply be "an actor is always responsible for a gun in his hand and thus guilty". Under normal circumstances, this pistol is not a gun but just a movie prop (still handled by responsible firearm professionals). For the sake of discussion, what if someone maliciously replaces Adam Driver' lightsaber with a real thing, and someone gets hurt? Is Driver to blame for it - even though [in real life] he might know mothing about lightsaber tech? Or, during Doctor Strangelove's filming, the atomic bomb really goes off - again, should we pin on Slim Pickens - a cowboy-character actor, knowing nothing about nuclear bomb safety?

If Baldwin was indeed involved in some boredom can shooting and was the one who brought (or was aware of) real rounds on the set, then yes he is involved! But that needs to be investigated and determined. But if - as an actor - he was handed a 150 year-old prop revolver with an assurance "it is safe", and all Alec did was "got in the role", then no matter how sad and unfortunate this accident is, I do not see it as "Baldwin is 100% guilty and must go prison".
Even if we accept everything you said, he is still liable.
He pointed and pulled the trigger at someone, people can try and excuse that, but we now know, there was no shooting in any scenes being filmed that day.
People can argue semantics all day long.
It still does not dismiss his responsibility. He was the producer, the actor and his idea to hire this armorer or had the final say. He is the one who ultimately pointed and pulled the trigger, which the scene did not call for. A criminal lawyer could go on further, but those are just a few of the reasons why i have claimed and maintain, at the very least he should be charged with Manslaughter and reckless endangerment.
This does not mean that others a few others should be charged, who also hold some responsibility.
Usually in these cases that make it to the media mainstream, to many folks listen to and take what the media says as some truth, without taking the time to analyze the facts of the case. Yet for some reason, in this case where we know a lot of the facts, people are trying to Over analyze it.
When there are some truth's that no matter how you try and swing it, can't be changed. The victims in this case, absolutely 100% did nothing wrong.
Because of his money, fame, political connections, he may find a way to skirt around any prosecution. But he will lose big time when it comes to the civil suits. The things this man does and says, had it been you or I, we would be locked in a mental institution or worse.
If your reply is, he has done nothing and is a fine upstanding citizen, then you are either biased or haven't done any research.

Manslaughter-the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.
 

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
All I know is that lawyers are going to have a field day with this case. Lawsuits galore.
 

Destination: Moon

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
478
Likes
314
Location
Western USA
You're missing the point and this is Not speculation.
"How"- By a gun " why"- because a careless individual pointed and pulled the trigger of said gun
"who should be held responsible" Who else but the person who pulled the trigger and possibly others who had contributable knowledge and mishandling.

Even if we accept everything you said, he is still liable.
He pointed and pulled the trigger at someone, people can try and excuse that, but we now know, there was no shooting in any scenes being filmed that day.
People can argue semantics all day long.
It still does not dismiss his responsibility. He was the producer, the actor and his idea to hire this armorer or had the final say. He is the one who ultimately pointed and pulled the trigger, which the scene did not call for. A criminal lawyer could go on further, but those are just a few of the reasons why i have claimed and maintain, at the very least he should be charged with Manslaughter and reckless endangerment.
This does not mean that others a few others should be charged, who also hold some responsibility.
Usually in these cases that make it to the media mainstream, to many folks listen to and take what the media says as some truth, without taking the time to analyze the facts of the case. Yet for some reason, in this case where we know a lot of the facts, people are trying to Over analyze it.
When there are some truth's that no matter how you try and swing it, can't be changed. The victims in this case, absolutely 100% did nothing wrong.
Because of his money, fame, political connections, he may find a way to skirt around any prosecution. But he will lose big time when it comes to the civil suits. The things this man does and says, had it been you or I, we would be locked in a mental institution or worse.
If your reply is, he has done nothing and is a fine upstanding citizen, then you are either biased or haven't done any research.

Manslaughter-the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.

Except his job was to point the gun and pull the trigger. That was his job as an actor. He was practicing. The environment he was in was all constructed to this end. All your other points about his politics, what you think his responsibilities were or weren't are all sheer speculation on your part. Some of which seem to stem from your view of his politics. Which hopefully remains an irrelevant matter in our court system, despite an eggregious attempt to politicize everything and everyone by certain forces
 
Last edited:

Putter

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Messages
493
Likes
771
Location
Albany, NY USA
While my intellect tells me that Alec Baldwin is at least in part responsible given that it looked like a gun, felt like a gun likely even smelled like a gun, I don't like the idea of sending him to jail when In 2020, there were at least 369 unintended shootings by children in the United States. These shootings caused 142 deaths and 242 injuries. The COVID-19 pandemic hasn't helped either. From March to December 2020, unintended shooting deaths by kids went up more than 30% compared to the same time period in 2019. https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/at-home/Pages/Handguns-in-the-Home.aspx All these parents (or at least many of them) were negligent in storing their firearms and could be criminally liable. Needless to say they're not going to jail and likely neither is Alec Baldwin although I think he does have some financial responsibility.
 

Slayer

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
583
Likes
859
Except his job was to point the gun and pull the trigger. That was his job as an actor. He was practicing. The environment he was in was all constructed to this end. All your other points about his politics, what you think his responsibilities were or weren't are all sheer speculation on your part. Some of which seem to stem from your view of his politics. Which hopefully remains an irrelevant matter in our court system, despite an eggregious attempt to politicize everything and everyone by certain forces
Once again, you are the one speculating, not I or anyone else that keep accusing of doing so. I never said anything about his politics, only his political connections. I couldn't give a rats ass about his or your political views. I was only making the claim he is a scum-bag, not because of his politics, but who he is as a person. Anyone who does the smallest research on him would understand this.
If you had paid any attention, his job that day, had Nothing to do with using the gun at hand. The script for that day of shooting proves it, Nowhere in the script for the days shooting, was he supposed to point and pull the trigger at said actress or anyone else for that matter.
So how you or anyone else could think he is not negligent and responsible is astounding. But you are entitled to your views.
My intent is not to attack you, rather for you to see the obvious. Good day, I'm done discussing this.
 

Raindog123

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,599
Likes
3,554
Location
Melbourne, FL, USA
…I was in Seussical the Musical once. Had to practice like crazy for three weeks… Did not just show up on the opening night and sang Alone in the Universe like the boss.
 
Last edited:

dmac6419

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,246
Likes
770
Location
USofA
Shouldn't this site be about audio science review or should I start a thread about Kyle Rittenhouse or...?
 

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
Shouldn't this site be about audio science review or should I start a thread about Kyle Rittenhouse or...?

Look at the thread titles in the "Member Area"

Are you as much against the subjects of BBQ and Bicycles too, on an audio science review forum?
 

dmac6419

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,246
Likes
770
Location
USofA
Look at the thread titles in the "Member Area"

Are you as much against the subjects of BBQ and Bicycles too, on an audio science review forum?
Eh eh, let's stick to audio, plenty of other sites to talk about other issues,now isn't there.
 

litemotiv

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
318
Likes
589
The main concern i see with a thread like this is that anything involving guns is by definition political.

How you look at this topic will certainly be influenced by whether you live in the US or not, whether you are pro-2A or not, and where you lean on the political spectrum. It's impossible to look at this topic in an objective way.

BBQ and bicycles are not political topics in the same way.
 

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
This thread is about law (at least that's how I'm reading it) and the case Baldwin's defense may make. One can make it political if one chooses too.

The recent Waukesha tragedy doesn't involve firearms, yet it's shaping up to be more "political" than the Baldwin case. Go figure.
 
Last edited:

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
Eh eh, let's stick to audio, plenty of other sites to talk about other issues,now isn't there.

Then complain to the mods that you wish to have all non-audio discussions banned.
 

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
The main concern i see with a thread like this is that anything involving guns is by definition political.

How you look at this topic will certainly be influenced by whether you live in the US or not, whether you are pro-2A or not, and where you lean on the political spectrum. It's impossible to look at this topic in an objective way.

BBQ and bicycles are not political topics in the same way.

The law is (or should be) objective. Full stop. Because it involves firearms does not change this fundamental tenet. The fact that you claim "It's impossible to look at this topic in an objective way" says a lot about what is rotting our legal system.
 

litemotiv

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
318
Likes
589
The law is (or should be) objective. Full stop. Because it involves firearms does not change this fundamental tenet. The fact that you claim "It's impossible to look at this topic in an objective way" says a lot about what is rotting our legal system.

The law is subjective in principle, it is interpreted and changed all the time by judges, juries and supreme courts, which are composed of humans and therefore biased.

What the law says is just doesn't have to be what you or i feel is just. Law is a local, cultural phenomenon, just like the law in Saudi Arabia is completely different from the one in the United States or Europe. In the US the law can even vary significantly by state.

Many lawsuits in the US are decided by juries, who generally have no legal background of any kind and are swayed one way or the other by skilled lawyers. This makes it even more subjective than in most other countries which do not use juries.
 

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
The law is subjective in principle, it is interpreted and changed all the time by judges, juries and supreme courts, which are composed of humans and therefore biased.

What the law says is just doesn't have to be what you or i feel is just. Law is a local, cultural phenomenon, just like the law in Saudi Arabia is completely different from the one in the United States or Europe. In the US the law can even vary significantly by state.

Many lawsuits in the US are decided by juries, who generally have no legal background of any kind and are swayed one way or the other by skilled lawyers. This makes it even more subjective than in most other countries which do not use juries.

Again, injecting hypotheticals. For this discussion lets stick to the U.S., the jurisdiction, the location in which the case is being adjudicated. Other country's laws or cultures (???) have no bearing to this discussion/case. Indeed the justice system in the U.S is somewhat unique in this way. Note that I am not saying it's perfect. But we can't dismiss the foundation just because it is not perfect.

Juries are bound by the laws of the jurisdiction. Still, wether it be a jury or judge or whatever, they are to remain impartial, that is a cornerstone of our justice system. Yes, I know that is flawed and not always the case.

Edit: Justice is subjective, laws should not be.
 
Last edited:

dmac6419

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,246
Likes
770
Location
USofA
Then complain to the mods that you wish to have all non-audio discussions banned.
I don't have to do that,they have discussion on others sites if that's what you want to talk about,have a nice day.
 

dmac6419

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,246
Likes
770
Location
USofA
Again, injecting hypotheticals. For this discussion lets stick to the U.S., the jurisdiction, the location in which the case is being adjudicated. Other country's laws or cultures (???) have no bearing to this discussion/case. Indeed the justice system in the U.S is somewhat unique in this way. Note that I am not saying it's perfect. But we can't dismiss the foundation just because it is not perfect.

Juries are bound by the laws of the jurisdiction. Still, wether it be a jury or judge or whatever, they are to remain impartial, that is a cornerstone of our justice system. Yes, I know that is flawed and not always the case.

Edit: Justice is subjective, laws should not be.
Again this is an audio site,let keep it that way, this isn't Fox,MSNBC,CNN or any other mainstream or local news site,see there's alot of things going on in the world that I can talk about but this isn't the appropriate forum for me to talk about it.
 
Top Bottom